[MOD] Age of civilisations (BtS)
- Thread starter cromcrom
- Start date
I will play at Normal , but the long research time was because of 20% science.
Is the colony maintenence fee a bug or intended? It will slow down city founding a great deal, and cripple the AI probably. (IMO)
cromcrom
Cernu
@keldath:
, I am not an easy guy, you know 
.
thanks a lot for you offer. I send you a private mail.
Your opinion and appreciation would be great to start with, and the "random discarding of technologies" feature of the mod....
@mice
wow
, I am not an easy guy, you know . thanks a lot for you offer. I send you a private mail.
Your opinion and appreciation would be great to start with, and the "random discarding of technologies" feature of the mod....
@mice
neither one. I simply removed the palace as a basic feature, because I plan to add it later...
cromcrom
Cernu
V0.4 Uploaded (see first post of this thread).
Enjoy, and feel free to propose new things, give feedback, report bugs....
Here is an image of some of the techs
Enjoy, and feel free to propose new things, give feedback, report bugs....
Here is an image of some of the techs
cromcrom ,I have finally managed to balance my econ. i played Inca and accessed early sea tiles. Stayed on 2 cities for a while until teching 'excange'.
Building wealth early on make a huge difference.
I have to say it's one of the best early games I've played.
I look forward to the later turns.
Possible bug. I researched Archery, but can't build an archer.
Amazing mod so far.
Building wealth early on make a huge difference.
I have to say it's one of the best early games I've played.
I look forward to the later turns.
Possible bug. I researched Archery, but can't build an archer.
Amazing mod so far.
cromcrom
Cernu
Thanks a lot mice, I am glad you appreciate it 
I honestly think that this concept and mod will gain all its savour once the "random discarding of technology" feature is implemented. I do believe the replayability will be great
Imagine that once this feature will be implemented, It will be VERY difficult, if not impossible, to have two same civilisation in the late game, and that will be the main difference from the basic BtS game.....
Archers are an upgrade for warriors.
I might go for this kind of warring techs: it will give access to a basic specialized unit, and mostly also allow some kind of promotions.
for example, the scouting technology give access to scouts, and the scouting promotion. Scouts are better at scouting than, say, a warrior with the scouting promotion.
Two, three or four combined techs will provide access to the most powerful units (very expansive, or artificialy limited in number as national units, or whatever....)
I honestly think that this concept and mod will gain all its savour once the "random discarding of technology" feature is implemented. I do believe the replayability will be great
Imagine that once this feature will be implemented, It will be VERY difficult, if not impossible, to have two same civilisation in the late game, and that will be the main difference from the basic BtS game.....
Archers are an upgrade for warriors.
I might go for this kind of warring techs: it will give access to a basic specialized unit, and mostly also allow some kind of promotions.
for example, the scouting technology give access to scouts, and the scouting promotion. Scouts are better at scouting than, say, a warrior with the scouting promotion.
Two, three or four combined techs will provide access to the most powerful units (very expansive, or artificialy limited in number as national units, or whatever....)
cromcrom
Cernu
Tried hard today to figure out how to achieve my randomization of technology disabling. This is very difficult, because I am more of a copy/paste type of scripter :-(
Anyway, next XML release will be saturday or sunday, with more techs...
Until then, share your feeling about the mod, proofs of interest are a great incentive to keep going
Take care.
Anyway, next XML release will be saturday or sunday, with more techs...
Until then, share your feeling about the mod, proofs of interest are a great incentive to keep going
Take care.
Lachlan
Great Builder of Civs !
I test 0.5 and its 100 % ok
Well, nice idea cromcrom...i got the facts behind it.
Currently downloading it, testing ahead.
Since i didn't read about, how about adopting new tech from your neighbours by force? This is a common practice as we knew from the history, most conquerers learned from their defeated enemies. Also it'll get a new dynamic into the game because when your empire is technically stucked it could grow into a warmongering nation to fullfill his deeply needs.
More comments will follow after testing rounds...
Currently downloading it, testing ahead.
Since i didn't read about, how about adopting new tech from your neighbours by force? This is a common practice as we knew from the history, most conquerers learned from their defeated enemies. Also it'll get a new dynamic into the game because when your empire is technically stucked it could grow into a warmongering nation to fullfill his deeply needs.
More comments will follow after testing rounds...
cromcrom
Cernu
@Lachlan: ftaghn. Thank you for testing. I am glad to learn it is bug free. I hope you enjoyed it
@Regul: I hope you will enjoy it, although it lacks the main feature, its the randomization of disabled techs after acquiring one...
Your idea sounds good. you will see that as soon as they discover writing, other leaders will offer to exchange techs with you: discovering technologies through cultural exchange.
I also know there is a mod that allow you to gain research points in random techs when you capture enemy cities. I could try to add it to the mod.
I am thinking about changing the unit types quite deeply. In fact, my mod won't technically go beyond early gunpowder, so many modern era king of techs won't be useful. But ancient types of units are not quite depicted here. So I might add new unit classes: light units, heavy units, skirmishing units....
@Regul: I hope you will enjoy it, although it lacks the main feature, its the randomization of disabled techs after acquiring one...
Your idea sounds good. you will see that as soon as they discover writing, other leaders will offer to exchange techs with you: discovering technologies through cultural exchange.
I also know there is a mod that allow you to gain research points in random techs when you capture enemy cities. I could try to add it to the mod.
I am thinking about changing the unit types quite deeply. In fact, my mod won't technically go beyond early gunpowder, so many modern era king of techs won't be useful. But ancient types of units are not quite depicted here. So I might add new unit classes: light units, heavy units, skirmishing units....
@cromcrom
Well, first game done now. All worked fine (used english language instead of german right now, but'll try this one too).
Here are my comments...beware HUGE
Storyline:
In common all looked fine to me, lot of leaders and nations to choose from...lately in-game it looked other way. I've choosen Charlemange/Germany but got US flag and got me situated into the european culture group. No difference for me so far, so i played on with different flag.
First choice to research was sailing, as my settler started at the sea and lighthouse would be good choice to grow city. After few rounds i founded my second city at the sea but also in range of flood plains so my second choice to research was agriculture. Third city founded in the hills near river to gain option on metal later. Then it happened i ran into my first burnout and it took me about 20 turns till i learned that my first city isn't my Capital till i build my Palace there. Ok, after loosing all my units except the first one's in city, got my research reduced to zero i wondered how to grow again. But the Palace and my sea-based citys helped me survive this. I researched archery to protect my new dynasty and went on.
Then i concentraded on road, minerals, mining and revealing marble and stone for further upgrade, while hording barbars tried to overwhelm me. Archers here aren't good for offensive play, as i got them with Drill I (Protection) but they do no good against untrained warriors except they are defending. Lately i managed to capture pirate city with 6 archers against 2 untrained and ran into complete economic collapse of my kingdom thereafter. So my struggle ended...
Anyhow playing gave lot of fun and here my comments on different parts that may improove the mod....
Leader Traits:
Leader traits shouldn't be choosen before starting game. Just choose your empire to state your cultural group and improove leader traits by technological choice either. Means, if you go warmongering, gain 'Expansive' or 'Imperialistic' by promotion...or if you choose to go Archery before any other wartech, gain 'Protective'....like this.
Other idea is, to just choose your nation and after researching kingdom you are allowed to choose your leader...wondering if this works.
Cultures:
Since European culture is usualy based on Greco-Roman culture i could not really understand that splitting-up, but it's choice of modder i guess.
I would have splitted it more basic into European, American, Asien, African and probably Polynesian and Arabic.
Anyhow, trade between different cultural groups should be more restricted, as they do not set trust in each other due to early incompability. The base idea behind is, that the reason that splitted the cultures up, is the same reason to prevent early trade. So, if you trade with nation from same cultural group, all is fine you could choose all options, while trade between nations from different cultural groups should be limited on goods while tech should be restricted.
What could open up this restriction is same believe as it opens mind toward the other culture then.
As a impression, think on early contact between Europeans and Chinese. The Europeans interest only was gold, silk, opium...while they treated China as a barbarian horde. Later since Bhuddism and other believes spread into Europe too, this view changed...
At same view is war between nation of equal cultural group, it is easier to gain tech by conquering city then as you have deep understand into each other. On the other side if you attack someone from different cultural group you just think of them as 'barbars' and do not learn from them that easy.
Economics:
- Turn 120 = Gold: +10 Research: 20%
- Turn 180 = G: -11 R: 0% => STRIKE, loosing all units
- learned that my first city isn't my Capital till i build my Palace!!!!
- Turn 230 = G: +15 R: 10%
- Turn 304 = G: -23 R: 0% => STRIKE, loosing all units again
- Turn 328 = G: -37 R: 0% => no way out of this economic desaster
- Turn 335 => no change in economical way so i abandoned game...
It is deeply needed to convert city production into gold/research/culture so you won't get busted without a simple chance to survive. In tech-tree i couldn't find any tech that brings city improovements to gain money...how to survive economicaly???
Workers shouldn't get disbanded, as you could not reach other economic level instead.
Units should not get disbanded all, they should get re-fitet into workers by chance. It is hard enough to loose improved units while having a maybe 1/10 chance to gain a worker out of it.
Combat/Units:
Ever planed to wreck 'protective' improoved archers (Drill I, City Defense I) against completely untrained barbar warriors?
Archer (Drill I) got 3.0 : 4.1 odd against untrained warrior => killed!
2 Archer (Drill I) got 3.0 : 4.1 odd against same untrained warrior => both killed!
Archer (Drill I, on hill) got 3.0 : 3.63 odd against untrained warrior, so i backed down and he was killed while attacking.
6 Archer ( Drill I) needed to attack 2 barb archer (city, hill, untrained) => 2 killed, city captured
Warriors shouldn't get upgradable to archers, as they are melee units. Otherwise u have to re-arange it into a untrained combatant that is able to learn into different combat styles. There is a mod out, that archers need own camps to train...something like this.
Tech tree:
I think the early choice what to research should lead into different basic technological orientation (BTO) of your culture. I'd spread them into 6 basic directions with direct opposites:
warfaring <-> economic
mass-growing <-> high productive
belive <-> science
So if you concentrate on warfaring techs, like mining, early training or else there should be a high risk to loose more tech from the opposite BTO. Basic idea behind is, that once you go into special direction in research it is more usual that you are stucked into this area the more you concentrade on it.
Let's say you try to get benefit from believe...historicaly in most cases early churches tried to downgrade science to gain more influence on the people.
Yes, it is usefull to go some steps into a BTO, but if you go too far it could be that you are no longer open enough to gain benefits from the direct oposits.
This could be a great instrument to direct research into mainstreams and if you limit yourself for a specialisation you have to be good in what you do.
Directly this could be a good tool for you cromcrom, to not have completely cultural spreaded civs which aren't longer able to survive against others.
Last point for now: Tech trade should only give back the option to research that tech, not directly hand over this tech. So...if you do other choice you may again loose the ability to research this. Tech trade would then be much more interesting...
Sumary:
I do like this mod...and after typing the comments i'll do another round of testing. It is just huge fun as you could not know what is necessary next and so you aren't doing all time same gameplay as in many multiplayer games usefull. Looking forward to see upgrades! Thank's for your work, cromcrom.
If i could give support, just drop me a note.
Well, first game done now. All worked fine (used english language instead of german right now, but'll try this one too).
Here are my comments...beware HUGE
Storyline:
In common all looked fine to me, lot of leaders and nations to choose from...lately in-game it looked other way. I've choosen Charlemange/Germany but got US flag and got me situated into the european culture group. No difference for me so far, so i played on with different flag.
First choice to research was sailing, as my settler started at the sea and lighthouse would be good choice to grow city. After few rounds i founded my second city at the sea but also in range of flood plains so my second choice to research was agriculture. Third city founded in the hills near river to gain option on metal later. Then it happened i ran into my first burnout and it took me about 20 turns till i learned that my first city isn't my Capital till i build my Palace there.
Ok, after loosing all my units except the first one's in city, got my research reduced to zero i wondered how to grow again. But the Palace and my sea-based citys helped me survive this. I researched archery to protect my new dynasty and went on. Then i concentraded on road, minerals, mining and revealing marble and stone for further upgrade, while hording barbars tried to overwhelm me. Archers here aren't good for offensive play, as i got them with Drill I (Protection) but they do no good against untrained warriors except they are defending. Lately i managed to capture pirate city with 6 archers against 2 untrained and ran into complete economic collapse of my kingdom thereafter. So my struggle ended...
Anyhow playing gave lot of fun and here my comments on different parts that may improove the mod....
Leader Traits:
Leader traits shouldn't be choosen before starting game. Just choose your empire to state your cultural group and improove leader traits by technological choice either. Means, if you go warmongering, gain 'Expansive' or 'Imperialistic' by promotion...or if you choose to go Archery before any other wartech, gain 'Protective'....like this.
Other idea is, to just choose your nation and after researching kingdom you are allowed to choose your leader...wondering if this works.
Cultures:
Since European culture is usualy based on Greco-Roman culture i could not really understand that splitting-up, but it's choice of modder i guess.
I would have splitted it more basic into European, American, Asien, African and probably Polynesian and Arabic.
Anyhow, trade between different cultural groups should be more restricted, as they do not set trust in each other due to early incompability. The base idea behind is, that the reason that splitted the cultures up, is the same reason to prevent early trade. So, if you trade with nation from same cultural group, all is fine you could choose all options, while trade between nations from different cultural groups should be limited on goods while tech should be restricted.
What could open up this restriction is same believe as it opens mind toward the other culture then.
As a impression, think on early contact between Europeans and Chinese. The Europeans interest only was gold, silk, opium...while they treated China as a barbarian horde. Later since Bhuddism and other believes spread into Europe too, this view changed...
At same view is war between nation of equal cultural group, it is easier to gain tech by conquering city then as you have deep understand into each other. On the other side if you attack someone from different cultural group you just think of them as 'barbars' and do not learn from them that easy.
Economics:
- Turn 120 = Gold: +10 Research: 20%
- Turn 180 = G: -11 R: 0% => STRIKE, loosing all units
- learned that my first city isn't my Capital till i build my Palace!!!!
- Turn 230 = G: +15 R: 10%
- Turn 304 = G: -23 R: 0% => STRIKE, loosing all units again
- Turn 328 = G: -37 R: 0% => no way out of this economic desaster
- Turn 335 => no change in economical way so i abandoned game...
It is deeply needed to convert city production into gold/research/culture so you won't get busted without a simple chance to survive. In tech-tree i couldn't find any tech that brings city improovements to gain money...how to survive economicaly???
Workers shouldn't get disbanded, as you could not reach other economic level instead.
Units should not get disbanded all, they should get re-fitet into workers by chance. It is hard enough to loose improved units while having a maybe 1/10 chance to gain a worker out of it.
Combat/Units:
Ever planed to wreck 'protective' improoved archers (Drill I, City Defense I) against completely untrained barbar warriors?
Archer (Drill I) got 3.0 : 4.1 odd against untrained warrior => killed!
2 Archer (Drill I) got 3.0 : 4.1 odd against same untrained warrior => both killed!
Archer (Drill I, on hill) got 3.0 : 3.63 odd against untrained warrior, so i backed down and he was killed while attacking.
6 Archer ( Drill I) needed to attack 2 barb archer (city, hill, untrained) => 2 killed, city captured
Warriors shouldn't get upgradable to archers, as they are melee units. Otherwise u have to re-arange it into a untrained combatant that is able to learn into different combat styles. There is a mod out, that archers need own camps to train...something like this.
Tech tree:
I think the early choice what to research should lead into different basic technological orientation (BTO) of your culture. I'd spread them into 6 basic directions with direct opposites:
warfaring <-> economic
mass-growing <-> high productive
belive <-> science
So if you concentrate on warfaring techs, like mining, early training or else there should be a high risk to loose more tech from the opposite BTO. Basic idea behind is, that once you go into special direction in research it is more usual that you are stucked into this area the more you concentrade on it.
Let's say you try to get benefit from believe...historicaly in most cases early churches tried to downgrade science to gain more influence on the people.
Yes, it is usefull to go some steps into a BTO, but if you go too far it could be that you are no longer open enough to gain benefits from the direct oposits.
This could be a great instrument to direct research into mainstreams and if you limit yourself for a specialisation you have to be good in what you do.
Directly this could be a good tool for you cromcrom, to not have completely cultural spreaded civs which aren't longer able to survive against others.
Last point for now: Tech trade should only give back the option to research that tech, not directly hand over this tech. So...if you do other choice you may again loose the ability to research this. Tech trade would then be much more interesting...
Sumary:
I do like this mod...and after typing the comments i'll do another round of testing. It is just huge fun as you could not know what is necessary next and so you aren't doing all time same gameplay as in many multiplayer games usefull. Looking forward to see upgrades! Thank's for your work, cromcrom.
If i could give support, just drop me a note.
cromcrom
Cernu
@Regul:
Wow, now this is reporting ^^
PLease keep in mind that I am only a XML and little art modder, and sadly, most of the improvements you talk about could be achieved through python or sdk coding, and this I can't do. yet ?
The choice of civ IS ONLY COSMETIC, and has no effect on the game itself.
Althopugh keep in mind that the cultural groups are only cosmetic, and only serve as a support for the game.
**Research various delvings, they will produce quite a good amount of wealth...
**Try to discover and mine precious minerals...
**keep confident, as I said, this is a very early built of the mod ...
The principle is to have not super powerful units, but quite specialized units. You will have a test in a few releases I hope
Right now I plan on implementing a "camoflage" technology, and a "militia" technology.
I do not agree with you here. The goal of the mod is also fun, and WHAT IFs. It is not intended to reenact world history, as many great mods do this much better than mine. The goal is to try to developp YOUR OWN civilisation, with its very specific technologies, but having to deal with some limitations. As a matter of fact, I plan on adding some fantasy part to the mod...
Will your civ be a peace loving, highly cultural forest loving civilisation? Or a deeply religiously fanatical trading desert nation? Or a sea nomad raiding civilisation? ....
Wow, now this is reporting ^^
My mod comes in english and french, no german, sorry
PLease keep in mind that I am only a XML and little art modder, and sadly, most of the improvements you talk about could be achieved through python or sdk coding, and this I can't do. yet ?
The 5 basic civilisations you have access to are only cosmetic. Those are the civ displays from the basic game.
The choice of civ IS ONLY COSMETIC, and has no effect on the game itself.
I totaly agree. Maybe a certain level of thrust between the two civilisations should be acquired before they share techs, and it shouldn't be as often. I will probably have a look in some time.
Althopugh keep in mind that the cultural groups are only cosmetic, and only serve as a support for the game.
**Research "exchange", it will allow you to build wealth...
**Research various delvings, they will produce quite a good amount of wealth...
**Try to discover and mine precious minerals...
**keep confident, as I said, this is a very early built of the mod ...
The war part of the mod is not at all fully developped.
The principle is to have not super powerful units, but quite specialized units. You will have a test in a few releases I hope
Right now I plan on implementing a "camoflage" technology, and a "militia" technology.
I do not agree with you here. The goal of the mod is also fun, and WHAT IFs. It is not intended to reenact world history, as many great mods do this much better than mine. The goal is to try to developp YOUR OWN civilisation, with its very specific technologies, but having to deal with some limitations. As a matter of fact, I plan on adding some fantasy part to the mod...
Will your civ be a peace loving, highly cultural forest loving civilisation? Or a deeply religiously fanatical trading desert nation? Or a sea nomad raiding civilisation? ....
Hm...i presume to have a multiplayer test round then
Afterwards you certainly agree to my ideas. Peace loving cultures didn't grow beyond a limited level in history if they didn't learn how to act with warmongering neighbours.
Anyhow, implementing fantasy-style things will loose you a lot of players interested into your mod...
Besides: did another test-round...all busted...will try your suggestions, but then i would not be able to build my own culture as i have (!) to do it your way.
I suggest to implement a basic economical system that is availible to all civs, otherwise all get busted or all will look the same.
cromcrom
Cernu
Well, I cannot say more here than wait until the game grows...
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I DO take it into considerations.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I DO take it into considerations.
cromcrom
Cernu
V0.6 released, see top of thread for details.
Hope you enjoy.
Feel free to give opinions.
Take care.
Hope you enjoy.
Feel free to give opinions.
Take care.
Lachlan
Great Builder of Civs !
I founded a bug with guild of cartographers
I attach a file for you
I attach a file for you
cromcrom
Cernu
quite a lot of money ^^
First time I see that. could you tell me if it happens again please ?
First time I see that. could you tell me if it happens again please ?
cromcrom
Cernu
Just to tell yall that the random discarding of technologies works perfectly, thanks to jojoweb (see top of the thread).
So I will quite soon propose a cleaned version of the mod (without all the useless techs), deadline by next WE I hope. It will be V1.0.
Untill then take care.
So I will quite soon propose a cleaned version of the mod (without all the useless techs), deadline by next WE I hope. It will be V1.0.
Untill then take care.
That's great news cromcrom. That was the main hurdle to jump. Now this mod can really come into it's own.
So far it makes for a very good early game.
I want to try out the later game with different civs forming up.
I played a0.6 game and it went without bugs. I had some small comments but I forgot them now.
Edit; I remembered. With the militia unit it's quite hard to take down cities early on. This makes for more of a builder early game ,which I like.
So far it makes for a very good early game.
I want to try out the later game with different civs forming up.
I played a0.6 game and it went without bugs. I had some small comments but I forgot them now.
Edit; I remembered. With the militia unit it's quite hard to take down cities early on. This makes for more of a builder early game ,which I like.
cromcrom
Cernu
V1.0 uploaded.
The V1.0 proposes the random discarding of technology concept.
You start the game with all technologies reasearchable. AS you discover some, others will randomly be discarded. And the more techs you discover, the more expensive they will get.
This is the basic concept.
See top of thread for details.
Feedback welcome
Enjoy
Jojoweb made this possible, thanks man ;-)
Take care all.
The V1.0 proposes the random discarding of technology concept.
You start the game with all technologies reasearchable. AS you discover some, others will randomly be discarded. And the more techs you discover, the more expensive they will get.
This is the basic concept.
See top of thread for details.
Feedback welcome
Enjoy
Jojoweb made this possible, thanks man ;-)
Take care all.
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