[MOD] Civ3 Evolution - Atlantean Chronicles
- Thread starter Madeira
- Start date
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
If they had stayed in Central Asia then the Basque would rule Europe, Tocharians would occupy China, & Siddhartha, having been an avatar of Siva rather than Vishnu, would have made his father's heart burst with joy by uniting the entire world under a single government. So at the beginning of every Spring you and I would be spraying our friends with colored dye.
Lol, that is so cool!
Lets leave the Aryans alone then shall we?
One other thing, I think im going to remove the Yoruba civ, their starting location isnt very good and I dont have much content for them besides half a dozen cool units which I can give to the Nubians. So that frees up one civ, who should I pick? Must be an ancient or mythological civ and must have a good number of units that can be used for them, im taking sugestions but allready have an idea, split the Hellenes into Myceneans and Dorians, lots of Macedonian units I could give them and the Myceneans should have alternatives.
Lets leave the Aryans alone then shall we?
One other thing, I think im going to remove the Yoruba civ, their starting location isnt very good and I dont have much content for them besides half a dozen cool units which I can give to the Nubians. So that frees up one civ, who should I pick? Must be an ancient or mythological civ and must have a good number of units that can be used for them, im taking sugestions but allready have an idea, split the Hellenes into Myceneans and Dorians, lots of Macedonian units I could give them and the Myceneans should have alternatives.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
Or you could split Troy off into its own civ?
Or the Amazons, occupying Pontus and also the city of Smyrna?
Or the Amazons, occupying Pontus and also the city of Smyrna?
The Amazons lack a good unit lineup I think, and they would be too close to the Hitites. But Troy is also a good idea! But I would use some of Wilken's ideas and put them in England. Dont know what to do concerning the Roman claims they're descendants from Trojans, do I ignore it or allow Troy to evolve and give them roman stuff while Italy is controlled by the Etruscans?
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
I'd let them evolve into Romans. Also, what I did was merge them with the Phrygians - because at one point, Homer (possibly by mistake) called them that. So perhaps you could give them Pessinus, instead of the Thracians (who could get, say, Nicea in Bithynia)
Huayna Capac357
Deity
I'm rather sure that you were joking, but explain please. Though weren't the Tocharians Indo-European?
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
I guess I forgot to put the
. The people of the Vedas called themselves "aryan" - meaning "bright" as in culturally & spiritually "pure". Not a racial / genetic thing. "Indo-European" refers to a language group, not to any particular genetically identifiable group. "Indo-European" is simply a way of of saying "Aryan" without our contemporary negative connotations.
The Aryan invasion theory presumes that they were the equivalent of vikings, substituting chariots for ships. If they didn't invade India then they would have invaded somewhere. East would be easier than West - more flat land suitable for horses. "Tocharian" is one of those cultures named by anthropologists. They were white, had chariots, & wore clothes that we would think of as early European. You tell me.
If they conquered China & still ruled central Asia there would have been no Mongol / Hun invasions of Europe. Based on DNA studies the Basque seem to have been in Europe longer than anybody else. There was even a (now discredited) theory that they were part Neanderthal. given that, plus no Aryan &/or central asian genetic or cultural elements. You tell me.
If there were no Aryan culture in India then it would be wholly Dravidian / Tamil. Without any Vedic influence (that's an Aryan set of scriptures) the religion would have been quite different. Presume that there would have been some analogue of Siddhartha (who became Gautama Buddha). If the religious influence on his culture had been quite different perhaps he would have seen no need for cultural reformation. He would have then fulfilled the other half of the prophecy given at his birth. You tell me.
No Greco-Roman culture. No strong China. Those were the limiting external factors on Asoka's conquests a few centuries later. Nothing to keep the Tamils from pouring out of both sides of the Himalayas. Since the Tamil cultures of the Sangam era were fine sailors, I see no reason not to presume that under the rule of a heavenly mandated world conqueror they would have eventually conquered the Americas as well. You tell me.
QED (
)
Huayna Capac357
Deity
Wow! I didn't know half of that stuff...
EDIT: Or rather, I only half-knew that stuff.
Thanks. Interesting.
EDIT: Or rather, I only half-knew that stuff.Thanks. Interesting.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Most alternate history is written by people (like Harry Turtledove) who are well-grounded in history. The better you know what happened the easier it is to spin out "what if ..."
Thats very interesting, but I guess changing the Aryans would make too large an impact, so better to leave them alone.
Virote, problem with Troy being related to the Phrygians is that I already relate the Phrygians with the Thracians
Also, have you thought of the possibility that Troy may have been settled by people from Italy? Check out the following from wiki:
Also interesting is that Dardanus' mother, being Electra, was a daughter of Atlas. Atlantean descendant? So you see, I have more reasons to make Troy either Atlantean or Tyrrhenian (a civ allready set up in my mod that evolves to roman). Besides, I never much liked the idea of having a civ that would evolve to roman start outside of Italy
Virote, problem with Troy being related to the Phrygians is that I already relate the Phrygians with the Thracians
Also, have you thought of the possibility that Troy may have been settled by people from Italy? Check out the following from wiki:
Spoiler :
Also interesting is that Dardanus' mother, being Electra, was a daughter of Atlas. Atlantean descendant?
So you see, I have more reasons to make Troy either Atlantean or Tyrrhenian (a civ allready set up in my mod that evolves to roman). Besides, I never much liked the idea of having a civ that would evolve to roman start outside of Italy mythusmage
Prince
(Snip)
Recent genetic studies of Etruscan remains have shown that the Etruscans migrated to central Italia from western Anatolia. Studies of their language have shown that Etruscan is a non Indo-European and non-Semitic language. A chap by the name of Razib Khan has a post up about this at his blog, Gene Expression. Keyword: "etruscan"
Update: And in a case of pure coincidence Razib has posted on human-neanderthal interbreeding. (For those of you who read Madeira's comment on the Basque and their putative neanderthal ancestry.
I have decided, here's what:
In my mod's backstory creative license, I claim the Sea Peoples that caused havoc and destroyed a few civilizations were actually descendants of Atlantean survivors, and its assumed that the Mycenean civilization's fall was most likely caused by either the Sea Peoples or the Dorian's invasion.
Well, in the scenario's alternate timeline, Atlantis didnt fall, so there will be no Sea People. As for the Dorians, facing a strong Mycenae they didnt dare invade, meaning the two civilizations didnt mingle.
So we'll have the Myceneans (renamed to Achaeans) in Greece, and the Dorians (probably going to rename them too) to the north (Epirus and Macedon likely).
Thanks to Sandris there are enough units to give them both a rich and interesting lineup, expect an update in the webpage showing that soon.
Could someone help with making a citylist for each civ so I dont spend much time researching? I suppose most known Greek cities have been there since Mycenean times, but others were founded by the Dorians (Syracusae for instances).
In my mod's backstory creative license, I claim the Sea Peoples that caused havoc and destroyed a few civilizations were actually descendants of Atlantean survivors, and its assumed that the Mycenean civilization's fall was most likely caused by either the Sea Peoples or the Dorian's invasion.
Well, in the scenario's alternate timeline, Atlantis didnt fall, so there will be no Sea People. As for the Dorians, facing a strong Mycenae they didnt dare invade, meaning the two civilizations didnt mingle.
So we'll have the Myceneans (renamed to Achaeans) in Greece, and the Dorians (probably going to rename them too) to the north (Epirus and Macedon likely).
Thanks to Sandris there are enough units to give them both a rich and interesting lineup, expect an update in the webpage showing that soon.
Could someone help with making a citylist for each civ so I dont spend much time researching? I suppose most known Greek cities have been there since Mycenean times, but others were founded by the Dorians (Syracusae for instances).
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Hi, I decided to check this thread out....
As for the Norse, that is not particularly accurate, since the Scandinavian Culture wasn't distinct at that point in time...
There WAS a culture, known as "Proto-Germanic" that existed in the Scandinavian Peninsula that was the ancestor of ALL Germanic peoples (Swedes, Norwegians, English, Germans, Dutch, etc)
Probably a better name for them would be the "Þeudiskaz" (Theodiscus) or Þeodisc/Þeudisk (Theodisc/Theudisk), which is a proto-Germanic term meaning "Of the people" from which Deutch, Dutch, and other terms for Germany and Germanic languages came from. (i.e. Tysk in Norwegian/Danish)... Well, that would work for the "adjective" and "noun" for the people... Probably best for the nation would be Þeudsland or Þeodsland (lit: "Land of the People" or "Land of the Nation")
Just my 2 cents, though...
Edit: ...and "Aryan" is ancient Iranian for.... Iranian/Iran (no kidding!), which makes me
whenver I see these skinheads describing themselves as "Aryan" while tossing off derogatory remarks about "towel heads".... 
As for the Norse, that is not particularly accurate, since the Scandinavian Culture wasn't distinct at that point in time...
There WAS a culture, known as "Proto-Germanic" that existed in the Scandinavian Peninsula that was the ancestor of ALL Germanic peoples (Swedes, Norwegians, English, Germans, Dutch, etc)
Probably a better name for them would be the "Þeudiskaz" (Theodiscus) or Þeodisc/Þeudisk (Theodisc/Theudisk), which is a proto-Germanic term meaning "Of the people" from which Deutch, Dutch, and other terms for Germany and Germanic languages came from. (i.e. Tysk in Norwegian/Danish)... Well, that would work for the "adjective" and "noun" for the people... Probably best for the nation would be Þeudsland or Þeodsland (lit: "Land of the People" or "Land of the Nation")
Just my 2 cents, though...
Edit: ...and "Aryan" is ancient Iranian for.... Iranian/Iran (no kidding!), which makes me
whenver I see these skinheads describing themselves as "Aryan" while tossing off derogatory remarks about "towel heads".... Hi Hikaro, thanks for participating!
Yes, I reached the same conclusion not long ago and already renamed them to Germanic, but Theodisc sounds very interesting! Since im interested in not so common names for those ancient civs that were either destroyed or evolved into something else. Thanks for the tip, I'll make that change.
Will also change the Picts, into Dardanians possibly, following Wilken's idea that Troy was in England, Dardanus would have been a British king. Just havent decided if I should leave Troy in Atlantean hands or not.
I've started work on those changes I mentioned above last weekend, removed the Yoruba in favor of another Greek civ, so now we have the Achaeans (Mycenae) in southern Greece, and the Hellenes (Dorians) in northern. All their main ancient and some metal age units will be unique, so they wont be that much similar, they'll still share some stuff though, but there are many small groups of civs that share content.
Yes, I reached the same conclusion not long ago and already renamed them to Germanic, but Theodisc sounds very interesting! Since im interested in not so common names for those ancient civs that were either destroyed or evolved into something else. Thanks for the tip, I'll make that change.
Will also change the Picts, into Dardanians possibly, following Wilken's idea that Troy was in England, Dardanus would have been a British king. Just havent decided if I should leave Troy in Atlantean hands or not.
I've started work on those changes I mentioned above last weekend, removed the Yoruba in favor of another Greek civ, so now we have the Achaeans (Mycenae) in southern Greece, and the Hellenes (Dorians) in northern. All their main ancient and some metal age units will be unique, so they wont be that much similar, they'll still share some stuff though, but there are many small groups of civs that share content.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Well, I'd be willing to give it a good "test play" when it comes out (Þeudsland über alles 
)....
I'm glad I could help... Being of at lest 2/3 German ancestry (and also probably some Norse/Scandinavian ancestry as well considering that I've Scots and Irish ancestors and those areas were frequently "visited" by the
), I take a good bit of interest in German history, even the ancient history (I did a history project for my High School about the Germanic Migration/Hunnic invasion of Europe and the subsequent collapse of the Roman Empire as a result).
)....I'm glad I could help... Being of at lest 2/3 German ancestry (and also probably some Norse/Scandinavian ancestry as well considering that I've Scots and Irish ancestors and those areas were frequently "visited" by the
), I take a good bit of interest in German history, even the ancient history (I did a history project for my High School about the Germanic Migration/Hunnic invasion of Europe and the subsequent collapse of the Roman Empire as a result).Thats cool!
You seen the mod's webpage yet? You might want to check the "German" lineup
Germanic Unit Lineup
The unit names havent been updated yet, and those are just the Ancient Age units, the Metal Age goes from the late Iron Age to Industrialization, so there will be lots of stuff in the 2nd age
You seen the mod's webpage yet? You might want to check the "German" lineup
Germanic Unit Lineup
The unit names havent been updated yet, and those are just the Ancient Age units, the Metal Age goes from the late Iron Age to Industrialization, so there will be lots of stuff in the 2nd age
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
I'll check it out... BTW, I've checked the entire thread, and you seem to be missing any kind of reference to Shambala (a.k.a. Shangri-la), and by the hard and fast unwritten code of mods, if you're going to include Atlantis, you also need to include Shambala/Shangri-la
If you do decide to add Shambala, it should go in Tibet (most of the Shambala legends are from the Tibet/Nepal/Bhutan region....
The Germanic unit lineup seems good to me (although perhaps replace the "Norse" part with Theodic, and re-name the Norse Axeman to "Theodic Raider" or something like that... He looks like (and it would seem to be, at least according to the tech level) one of the Germanic raiders that went pillaging into the Danube River valley during the late Roman era.....
....Unless the "Metal Age" is supposed to represent the time from the late Roman Empire to the Rennaisance.....
If you do decide to add Shambala, it should go in Tibet (most of the Shambala legends are from the Tibet/Nepal/Bhutan region....
The Germanic unit lineup seems good to me (although perhaps replace the "Norse" part with Theodic, and re-name the Norse Axeman to "Theodic Raider" or something like that... He looks like (and it would seem to be, at least according to the tech level) one of the Germanic raiders that went pillaging into the Danube River valley during the late Roman era.....
....Unless the "Metal Age" is supposed to represent the time from the late Roman Empire to the Rennaisance.....
Yes, like I said the names havent been updated in the online version of the website But I'll need to rename them again to Theodic anyway. And you are almost correct, the Metal age starts around the time of the late Roman Republic, you might notice in the many unit lineups that there are no units with Scale armor, just Bronze plate. So, the late Roman Republic era units like Sandris' Late Princeps and Triarii go into the Metal age. But the Barbarian civs are supposed to be less developed, so they will take more time to reach it, thats why I put the Barbarian Invasion type units in the late Ancient Era. There will be further cool Germanic dark ages units in the Metal age
So yea, I may change it to Theodic Raider.
Shambala sounds good, and the Tibet region of my map is very interesting, since most powerfull units cant cross mountains, there are only a few paths into Tibet. Need more info about Shambala then, what civ should get it? I'll probably research some during the day.
But I'll need to rename them again to Theodic anyway. And you are almost correct, the Metal age starts around the time of the late Roman Republic, you might notice in the many unit lineups that there are no units with Scale armor, just Bronze plate. So, the late Roman Republic era units like Sandris' Late Princeps and Triarii go into the Metal age. But the Barbarian civs are supposed to be less developed, so they will take more time to reach it, thats why I put the Barbarian Invasion type units in the late Ancient Era. There will be further cool Germanic dark ages units in the Metal age So yea, I may change it to Theodic Raider.
Shambala sounds good, and the Tibet region of my map is very interesting, since most powerfull units cant cross mountains, there are only a few paths into Tibet. Need more info about Shambala then, what civ should get it? I'll probably research some during the day.
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