Huayna Capac357
Deity
Wasn't there a place in Vietnam called something like Hoa Binh that was supposedly one of the earliest bronze areas? I read about it in an old National Geographic.
[MOD] Civ3 Evolution - Atlantean Chronicles
- Thread starter Madeira
- Start date
About the Roman - Troy connection, I've had another idea:
The Romans will be indigenous to the Latium region, starting with Roma and Capua, dont know if anything else; The Etruscans/Tyrrhenians will be the ones originating somewhere else, its mostly accepted nowadays that the Etruscans were an indigenous people that were influenced by a migrating people from somewhere else, possibly Lydia in Asia Minor, but the thing is, the legend about Tyrrhenus, brother of Lydus, leading the Tyrrhenians out of Lydia, doesnt seem to fit with what is known about the region where Lydia was supposed to be, there is no evidence of Etruscans in Lydia, the language is different, and Lydia didnt have a coast to launch a sea migration from, so what if Lydia, like Troy, was somewhere else? England!
We could make a civ, replacing the Picts, that represents perhaps both Troy and Lydia, and that evolves into the Etruscan civilization with an Etruscan city list, just dont think I'll add any Etruscan colonies in Italy.
Or do you prefer we keep Romans and Etruscans combined, the Picts as the civ indigenous to Britain with the Atlantean colony of Troy closing their path to the European mainland and not necessarily in a locked war? Really undecided.
The Romans will be indigenous to the Latium region, starting with Roma and Capua, dont know if anything else; The Etruscans/Tyrrhenians will be the ones originating somewhere else, its mostly accepted nowadays that the Etruscans were an indigenous people that were influenced by a migrating people from somewhere else, possibly Lydia in Asia Minor, but the thing is, the legend about Tyrrhenus, brother of Lydus, leading the Tyrrhenians out of Lydia, doesnt seem to fit with what is known about the region where Lydia was supposed to be, there is no evidence of Etruscans in Lydia, the language is different, and Lydia didnt have a coast to launch a sea migration from, so what if Lydia, like Troy, was somewhere else? England!
We could make a civ, replacing the Picts, that represents perhaps both Troy and Lydia, and that evolves into the Etruscan civilization with an Etruscan city list, just dont think I'll add any Etruscan colonies in Italy.
Or do you prefer we keep Romans and Etruscans combined, the Picts as the civ indigenous to Britain with the Atlantean colony of Troy closing their path to the European mainland and not necessarily in a locked war? Really undecided.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
I'm keeping my eye on this thread. I look forward to each new post. I think however you decide to divide up the civs will be fine. I hope you don't get so bogged down in tweaking the back-story that you sacrifice work on the scenario itself.
No dont worry, I wrote that post from work, usually where I do most of the brainstorming 
Thought of another today, I have two types of civs, the cultured ones and the more nomadic or tribal, there are some techs that are unavailable to one or the other group. The nomadic for instances cant research Drama and build Amphitheaters, or City Planning and build Aqueducts (being unable to reach city size 3 until they get some other improvement that does the same around medieval age). But what if instead of making the techs unavailable, I just make the AI less likely to research by means of the flavor feature? There are some reasons that may make me do that, one is make a distinction between "cultured" civs that favor agriculture and "nomadic" civs that favor hunting, I will not prevent the "nomadic" from irrigating, I just may make some bonus resources that are visible only to each of the groups, for instances: The "cultured" will see Wheat and Maize, so they will favor open terrain rich in these resources, while the "nomadic" will see Deer and whatever so they will favor forests with lots of game to hunt
This seems an interesting idea and may make me change these bonuses values and redistribute them, but that wont take long.
Still thinking about the Etruscan - Troy connection, I wouldnt mind keeping the Picts but I lack unique content for them, besides Sandris' ancient Briton units, which werent exactly Pict, but the same goes for the Sindh civ, its one of the civs that could be replaced but I want them in because they represent one of the first true civilizations and serve as target for the Arya expantion
If I put the Etruscans in Britain, I'll place Troy near Cambridge and Lydia near Cornwall with some nice Tin resources in the area. Im unlikely to place any colonies in Italy and undecided if I'll put them at war with Atlantis. Also need a name since Etruscan is the english word for what the Romans called them, perhaps Rasenna, what they called themselves.
I'll update the webpage soon, been working on the city improvements section but will only upload when its mostly complete (except the wonders which will come later, and Oriental improvements which can wait until I finish the oriental civs unit lineup, still hoping Sandris will release an oriental pack)
Thought of another today, I have two types of civs, the cultured ones and the more nomadic or tribal, there are some techs that are unavailable to one or the other group. The nomadic for instances cant research Drama and build Amphitheaters, or City Planning and build Aqueducts (being unable to reach city size 3 until they get some other improvement that does the same around medieval age). But what if instead of making the techs unavailable, I just make the AI less likely to research by means of the flavor feature? There are some reasons that may make me do that, one is make a distinction between "cultured" civs that favor agriculture and "nomadic" civs that favor hunting, I will not prevent the "nomadic" from irrigating, I just may make some bonus resources that are visible only to each of the groups, for instances: The "cultured" will see Wheat and Maize, so they will favor open terrain rich in these resources, while the "nomadic" will see Deer and whatever so they will favor forests with lots of game to hunt
This seems an interesting idea and may make me change these bonuses values and redistribute them, but that wont take long.Still thinking about the Etruscan - Troy connection, I wouldnt mind keeping the Picts but I lack unique content for them, besides Sandris' ancient Briton units, which werent exactly Pict, but the same goes for the Sindh civ, its one of the civs that could be replaced but I want them in because they represent one of the first true civilizations and serve as target for the Arya expantion
If I put the Etruscans in Britain, I'll place Troy near Cambridge and Lydia near Cornwall with some nice Tin resources in the area. Im unlikely to place any colonies in Italy and undecided if I'll put them at war with Atlantis. Also need a name since Etruscan is the english word for what the Romans called them, perhaps Rasenna, what they called themselves.
I'll update the webpage soon, been working on the city improvements section but will only upload when its mostly complete (except the wonders which will come later, and Oriental improvements which can wait until I finish the oriental civs unit lineup, still hoping Sandris will release an oriental pack)
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Another way to achieve the difference relative to irrigation would be to have 2 different worker units, with different speeds. And/or limit the production of workers by the nomads - since you probably also wouldn't want nomads building roads & mines at the same pace. you could even make it so that the only way for nomads to get workers would be by capture/enslavement.
Well, workers arent built by anyone, there are slaves and there are worker producing buildings, and those workers are actually peasants with minimal offensive capabilities that can be upgraded to settlers. What comes to mind is have the nomad's worker producing building create the peasants at a slower rate, but make the settler upgrade cheaper.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
I wonder how the AI would cope with giving the nomads only settlers with worker abilities.I suppose the AI chooses one of the strategies (worker or settler) when its built, and I bet it will be the settler strategy most of the time We would see the map full of nomads very quickly.
Btw, by nomads I mean all "barbaric" civs, not just the steppes ones Amerindians in N. America too
We would see the map full of nomads very quickly.Btw, by nomads I mean all "barbaric" civs, not just the steppes ones
Amerindians in N. America tooAs some of you may have allready noticed, I managed to combine elements of different author's citysets in order to make a united european set. In the ancient set you see lots of hut-like buildings in size 1, evolving into greco-roman buildings in the bigger sets, while in the medieval set you see a mix of wood-built buildings and churches and stone-built ones. Thanks to RedAlert, Aion, Yoda Power and Skam0073 for the original art work! Check out the Graphics section if you havent seen it already.
I've allready begun migrating the european civs to the mediterranean group, renaming it European. And the free culture group is going to be used by the Indian civs, Sindh, Arya and Tamilakam, making good use of RedAlert's Indian cityset for the first two ages. Whats cool is that Tamilakam will be the 2nd most evolved civ right after Atlantis, so it will reach the 2nd era quickly and get a very distintive architecture style for their cities, just like Atlantis.
Next step after a finish this (should only take a few minutes) is making slight changes to the tech tree to allow the nomadic civs to research the more civilized techs, but making use of the flavour system to ensure at least the AI nomads prefer other techs first, the ones that will lead to better and nasty barbarian units
There will still be techs that will be unique to each group, the nomads will get access to the Chiefdom tech and government type, and Barbarian Warfare for the European group and Warrior Code for the North American one.
After that I want to implement the terrain bonuses for each group, one for those who prefer agriculture and another for the hunters. I probably will keep the standard resources like Wheat, Maize, and Game available to all, but will put less on the map, and will create new ones that give less bonus but are more widespread.
Let me know if you think any of the following should be available only to one group:
Wheat
Maize
Cattle
Sheep
Deer
Buffalo
I've allready begun migrating the european civs to the mediterranean group, renaming it European. And the free culture group is going to be used by the Indian civs, Sindh, Arya and Tamilakam, making good use of RedAlert's Indian cityset for the first two ages. Whats cool is that Tamilakam will be the 2nd most evolved civ right after Atlantis, so it will reach the 2nd era quickly and get a very distintive architecture style for their cities, just like Atlantis.
Next step after a finish this (should only take a few minutes) is making slight changes to the tech tree to allow the nomadic civs to research the more civilized techs, but making use of the flavour system to ensure at least the AI nomads prefer other techs first, the ones that will lead to better and nasty barbarian units
There will still be techs that will be unique to each group, the nomads will get access to the Chiefdom tech and government type, and Barbarian Warfare for the European group and Warrior Code for the North American one.
After that I want to implement the terrain bonuses for each group, one for those who prefer agriculture and another for the hunters. I probably will keep the standard resources like Wheat, Maize, and Game available to all, but will put less on the map, and will create new ones that give less bonus but are more widespread.
Let me know if you think any of the following should be available only to one group:
Wheat
Maize
Cattle
Sheep
Deer
Buffalo
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Maize is strictly N. & S. American in origin.
Im aware of that, same way wheat is Mesopotamic. But I have no way of representing the spread of the two throughout the world, so I just ignored that fact. Thought about spreading maize in America and wheat in Eurasia and Africa, you think thats a better option?
Also have Rice, forgot to add it to that list, think its spread in realistic locations but not sure.
Also have Rice, forgot to add it to that list, think its spread in realistic locations but not sure.
I just wikied it, Rye is closely related to Wheat, so I dont think it requires its own resource just to make it an European resource, it is however one of the reasons to spread Wheat through the eastern hemisphere instead of leaving it just in Mesopotamia.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
If you're just making them bonus resources, you can also have multiple ones appearing at different times in the tech tree, so that, for example, wheat starts in Mesopotamia but "spreads"
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
If you have the slots you can have separate resources like maize, wheat, etc. As an alternative / supplement to Virote's suggestion, a "grains" resource could be made - a simple CnP of wheat, corn & a rice bowl for example.
Edit: Here's what I mean (it's a quick RGB c'n'p):
Edit: Here's what I mean (it's a quick RGB c'n'p):
Yea I thought of using a generic "grains" resource as the bonus for the "cultured" group, give it a single food bonus but spread them all over the map in open terrain ares, especially near rivers. I'll post a preview of the resources pcx tomorrow or sunday, hope to get some work done this weekend!
Good c'n'p But I would probably use something different for the generic "grains".
Good c'n'p
But I would probably use something different for the generic "grains".Hey guys!
I've done some of the updates I wrote above, and working on some of the others. On vacations next week, and wont spend it sleeping till noon every day because I have to take my kid to kindergarten so I should devote some time everyday to the mod, I hope..
I've implemented the flavors feature in my mod, with the following 4 flavors:
Cultured Civilized
Balanced Civilized
Balanced Nomadic
Barbarian Nomadic
Each civ gets one of these flavours, then I've assigned each tech of the first 2 ages one or two flavors, and buildings/wonders too. Cultured Civilized civs will get only a 10% relation with the Barbarian Nomadic, but the number increases depending on each group's proximity in the list. There are still some techs unavailable to 2 of the groups, either the first 2 or the last 2, 5 unique techs in the ancient age for each of the 2 groups, dont know yet about the iron age, and flavors will become obsolete in the industrial age.
Now I want to discuss Virote's sugestion. Keeping in mind there will be a generic grains resource available to the civilized group spread throughout the world, and some animal for hunting for the nomadic group, these are available early on.
Regarding Wheat, it will be split in 3 phases, with the first one available with Harvesting which comes early in the tech tree and will be available only in Mesopotamia, the Nile and possibly Hindus rivers, in phase 2 it spreads to Eurasia and Africa, phase 3 it spreads to the other continents.
One other feature I think its interesting, phase 1 wheat will be a luxury resource, and coastal cities with access to it can build a "Wheat import" improvement that will increase food in water. Those Mediterranean civs will be able to import it if they get the resource through trade or conquest for instances.
Regarding Maize, I think we can make it 3 phases too, phase 1 is Mesoamerica and possibly near the Andes, phase 2 is the rest of North and South America, phase 3 is the rest of the world. I suppose we can also make a Maize import improvement, and of course these improvements should become obsolete with phase 2 or 3, or shouldnt they?
I've done some of the updates I wrote above, and working on some of the others. On vacations next week, and wont spend it sleeping till noon every day because I have to take my kid to kindergarten so I should devote some time everyday to the mod, I hope..
I've implemented the flavors feature in my mod, with the following 4 flavors:
Cultured Civilized
Balanced Civilized
Balanced Nomadic
Barbarian Nomadic
Each civ gets one of these flavours, then I've assigned each tech of the first 2 ages one or two flavors, and buildings/wonders too. Cultured Civilized civs will get only a 10% relation with the Barbarian Nomadic, but the number increases depending on each group's proximity in the list. There are still some techs unavailable to 2 of the groups, either the first 2 or the last 2, 5 unique techs in the ancient age for each of the 2 groups, dont know yet about the iron age, and flavors will become obsolete in the industrial age.
Now I want to discuss Virote's sugestion. Keeping in mind there will be a generic grains resource available to the civilized group spread throughout the world, and some animal for hunting for the nomadic group, these are available early on.
Regarding Wheat, it will be split in 3 phases, with the first one available with Harvesting which comes early in the tech tree and will be available only in Mesopotamia, the Nile and possibly Hindus rivers, in phase 2 it spreads to Eurasia and Africa, phase 3 it spreads to the other continents.
One other feature I think its interesting, phase 1 wheat will be a luxury resource, and coastal cities with access to it can build a "Wheat import" improvement that will increase food in water. Those Mediterranean civs will be able to import it if they get the resource through trade or conquest for instances.
Regarding Maize, I think we can make it 3 phases too, phase 1 is Mesoamerica and possibly near the Andes, phase 2 is the rest of North and South America, phase 3 is the rest of the world. I suppose we can also make a Maize import improvement, and of course these improvements should become obsolete with phase 2 or 3, or shouldnt they?
RedAlert
Love one another
I think a problem with the idea of putting Lydia in England is that you've traded what you find to be an unlikely location with what is, in my opinion, an even more unlikely location. I like keeping the Romans and Etruscans combined and the Picts as the British civ, myself.
I will suggest an alternative, though: One civ would be the Etruscans. The other civ could be the Trojans, with a colony each in Rome, Britain, and maybe even France (going with legend). I'm guessing you would prefer to include a native British civ, though; and to be honest I would too. I cannot think of any however - but would perhaps giving the Trojan civ and the Celtic/Gallic civ each a town in Britain suffice?
I haven't really had a look through this thread yet, but I'll see if I can get around to that soon. Great work so far, I'm glad to see this project is coming along.
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