[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

darkedone02 said:
so are you done patching and going to upgrade FFH with another big update (0.17), I like to see more units, and a more organized tree as well. More buildings and wonders that deals with mana, and allow you to caste advance spells buy how much mana you got (3 fire mana allows you to cast Fire Storm, 2 Earth and 1 Leaf mana gives you a mass plain terraform, etc)

I dont like significant bugs. So we will patch as long as significant bugs present themselves. There won't be a new (non-patch) version released this year. It will probably be version 0.20 and it will be the first version of "Fire".
 
gandhi rules said:
Cant fire be FFH3?

We could call it that, but I typically think that a new product number implies a base level rewrite. Just about every function was rewritten between FfH1 and FfH2. But "Fire" builds on "Light" so its probably best to keep it in FfH2.
 
I get this bug sometimes where the unit stats display gets stuck on the left side of the screen. This seems to happen when I select units into a stack, by clicking on them while holding down <shift>. They eventually go away, usually when I try to click on other units, but it's annoying.
 
Just a thought. Should the use of werewolves be so free of consequences? Somehow, it just feels wrong for a good civ to be able to use them without any qualms on the part of the citizenry or from good allies.

Personally, if I were the inhabitant of a city where the government was garrisoning a bunch of werewolves, I would feel a decline in my happiness. :)
 
First of all, thanks to the FfH2 staff for making a fantastic mod. I've been playing the mod for a couple months, and I have some feedback and suggestions. Take it for what it's worth.

National Units limit scale with Map Size
It seems to me that the number of National Units each Civ is allowed should scale according to map size.

Automated Spellcasting
It would be nice if spellcasters could be automated to terraform (Bloom every available tile, Spring every available desert, etc.), to enchant units (Enchanted Blade, Spiritual Hammer, etc.), and to heal units (Heal, Cure Disease, Repair).

Unimpressive Lich
As it is currently implemented, the Lich is only noteworthy as a way to get around the limit of 3 Archmages. I would prefer that the Lich were a more impressive unit, especially since the Necromancy III promotion is useless after the conversion. Perhaps it could receive some unique abilities like the Vampires do, or include a new spell. (For example, in some fantasy settings, Liches have a paralyzing touch)

High Priest/Inquisitor/Inquisition
First, I think more should be done to make the High Priest and Inquisitor distinct units: the Inquisition ability and Strength difference is not enough.
Also, I would be inclined to replace the Inquisitor with unique units for each religion. The Inquisition ability should still be included in the game somehow, and should anger states who have Free Religion or a State Religion that is affected by your use of Inquisition.

Unclear "summon" duration/terminology
Some "summoned" units are subject to the 1/3 turn duration, while others last until destroyed/disbanded. I suggest using different terminology in the spell names to make this more clear: units that are subject to the turn duration are "summoned" (Summon Fire Elemental, etc.) while permanent units use different terminology (Raise, Create, Call, Enlist, Conscribe, etc.) as appropriate.

Spell Extension promotion v. Mobility
I don't see any reason to give a spellcaster the Spell Extension Promotion over Mobility, as M increases the spellcasters movement in addition to his Fireballs and Summons. Perhaps Spell Extension could provide some other benefit?

Fireball/Meteor issues
From the looks of the discussion here, my experience is not unique: Fire spells are so powerful/useful that Fire mana is a no-brainer. Fireball and Meteor might be nerfed to provide collateral damage without fortification bombardment. (Perhaps fortification bombardment would be more appropriate for an Earthquake effect.)
Also, I dislike that Fireballs/Meteors can be used as "scouts". I would suggest limiting their visibility range to make them effectively "blind".

Ring of Fire + Friendly Civs
Friendly civs always seem to get in the way of using Ring of Fire, especially by sneaking into a stack of enemy units. Reloading after unintentionally declaring war is a bit annoying, so you might consider adding a prompt to declare war on that country, much like the one that comes up when you try to enter territory without Open Borders.
Alternately, you could play around with the way that Ring of Fire works such that it was a non-issue.

Animals freely enter territory without Open Borders
This just seems silly to me, watching opposing Tigers map out my territory (and get in the way of Ring of Fire).

Flying units/Birds
You might consider adding additional flying units in the future. Giant Eagles, Rocs, Flying demons, Airships, etc.
Also, it would also be nice if the birds could be automated to automatically Recon undiscovered or unseen territory; doing this manually with Scouts/Hunters/Rangers/etc. is unnecessarily tedious.

Obligatory Zombie unit
I would like to see a Zombie worker unit, perhaps as a Divine spell for Necromancy II or a unique unit for the Calabim. You're free to do what you like with the mechanics, but you might consider giving it a (low) Strength value, 1 Movement, but increased build rate. After all, Zombies have a 24-hour workday.

I hope the feedback is helpful. Thanks again for a great mod.
 
Obligatory Zombie unit
I would like to see a Zombie worker unit, perhaps as a Divine spell for Necromancy II or a unique unit for the Calabim. You're free to do what you like with the mechanics, but you might consider giving it a (low) Strength value, 1 Movement, but increased build rate. After all, Zombies have a 24-hour workday.

Or maybe you can make a zombie, like you "drown" a unit or make it like crews?
 
I'm noticing that with the latest patch, you can get wiped out by a lizardman very, very quickly.

Never happened before in all the games I played, but twice in one day today.
 
i've noticed that as well, the lizardman being more powerful, because one defeated my Ratine Hero at 80% strength with 85 out of 100 experience points. I believe it was 5-3 or 6-3 for my rantine hero over the lizardman. One of those lizardman also waxed my fortified giants on a hill within a fort, AND then later killed my lurchip hero with 100/100 experience! luck of the draw? who knows.
 
Yeah, before the AI was killing off its Lizardmen when it shouldn't have, now it uses them to full effect. Definitly more dangerous.

On the first 3 difficulty levels there is a 2% per turn a ruin will spawn a lizardman, on the 4th-6th difficult levels there is a 5% chance per turn a ruin will spawn a lizardman and on the last 3 difficulty levels there is an 8% chance per turn a ruin will spawn a lizardman.

All of those chance can be adjusted with the editor on the global defines page (or with a text editor by changing them in the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file).
 
First of all, thanks to the FfH2 staff for making a fantastic mod. I've been playing the mod for a couple months, and I have some feedback and suggestions. Take it for what it's worth.

National Units limit scale with Map Size
It seems to me that the number of National Units each Civ is allowed should scale according to map size.

Yeah, unfortunaly that isnt easy to do. But it is possible with a little SDK work. I'll add it to the wish list. We may not use it for all units, but some would be nice to map relative.

Automated Spellcasting
It would be nice if spellcasters could be automated to terraform (Bloom every available tile, Spring every available desert, etc.), to enchant units (Enchanted Blade, Spiritual Hammer, etc.), and to heal units (Heal, Cure Disease, Repair).

Thats already on the want list. I definitly agree with you.

Unimpressive Lich
As it is currently implemented, the Lich is only noteworthy as a way to get around the limit of 3 Archmages. I would prefer that the Lich were a more impressive unit, especially since the Necromancy III promotion is useless after the conversion. Perhaps it could receive some unique abilities like the Vampires do, or include a new spell. (For example, in some fantasy settings, Liches have a paralyzing touch)

I tend to disagree with this, the ability to have 6 archmages (not counting archmage able heroes) is awesome and I think it makes liches worthwile.

High Priest/Inquisitor/Inquisition
First, I think more should be done to make the High Priest and Inquisitor distinct units: the Inquisition ability and Strength difference is not enough.
Also, I would be inclined to replace the Inquisitor with unique units for each religion. The Inquisition ability should still be included in the game somehow, and should anger states who have Free Religion or a State Religion that is affected by your use of Inquisition.

Yeah, I agree. Those units should probably be combined with different religions getting a different high priest with more varied abilities.

Unclear "summon" duration/terminology
Some "summoned" units are subject to the 1/3 turn duration, while others last until destroyed/disbanded. I suggest using different terminology in the spell names to make this more clear: units that are subject to the turn duration are "summoned" (Summon Fire Elemental, etc.) while permanent units use different terminology (Raise, Create, Call, Enlist, Conscribe, etc.) as appropriate.

Another great observation. That doesnt make muvch difference from a design perspective and would be much easier for casual players to understand. I'll add it to the want list.

Spell Extension promotion v. Mobility
I don't see any reason to give a spellcaster the Spell Extension Promotion over Mobility, as M increases the spellcasters movement in addition to his Fireballs and Summons. Perhaps Spell Extension could provide some other benefit?

Mobility doesnt increase the movement of spells. It may at a practical level since it allows the caster to caster/summon combo to travel farther in one turn but it doesn't accomplish the greater goal of allowing a caster to stay well away from battle like extension does.

We have cut both mobility and extension abilities (there used to be 3 extension levels and you could get them all without any tech requirements) and I tend to like where it is now.

Fireball/Meteor issues
From the looks of the discussion here, my experience is not unique: Fire spells are so powerful/useful that Fire mana is a no-brainer. Fireball and Meteor might be nerfed to provide collateral damage without fortification bombardment. (Perhaps fortification bombardment would be more appropriate for an Earthquake effect.)
Also, I dislike that Fireballs/Meteors can be used as "scouts". I would suggest limiting their visibility range to make them effectively "blind".

Fireballs have been nerfed many times. I dont really want to do it again. Rather I would prefer to make the other spheres as viable as the fire sphere is. I do agree that it is a very powerful sphere.

The ability to keep them from "seeing" and entering tiles you cant see into would be cool. But would definitly take some SDK work to make happen. That would probably be low on our priority list.

Ring of Fire + Friendly Civs
Friendly civs always seem to get in the way of using Ring of Fire, especially by sneaking into a stack of enemy units. Reloading after unintentionally declaring war is a bit annoying, so you might consider adding a prompt to declare war on that country, much like the one that comes up when you try to enter territory without Open Borders.
Alternately, you could play around with the way that Ring of Fire works such that it was a non-issue.

A popup warning before casting any spell that will cause war is already on the want list.

Animals freely enter territory without Open Borders
This just seems silly to me, watching opposing Tigers map out my territory (and get in the way of Ring of Fire).

If they are hidden nationality then you can kill them without declaring war. If they arent hidden nationality, then they cant enter your borders. A spell like ring of flames cast on a hidden nationality unit shouldnt start a war.

Flying units/Birds
You might consider adding additional flying units in the future. Giant Eagles, Rocs, Flying demons, Airships, etc.
Also, it would also be nice if the birds could be automated to automatically Recon undiscovered or unseen territory; doing this manually with Scouts/Hunters/Rangers/etc. is unnecessarily tedious.

We have talked about adding flying at length, but it would be a huge project to do well. Bigger than adding a spell system, and at this point I just dont think its worth the effort.

Obligatory Zombie unit
I would like to see a Zombie worker unit, perhaps as a Divine spell for Necromancy II or a unique unit for the Calabim. You're free to do what you like with the mechanics, but you might consider giving it a (low) Strength value, 1 Movement, but increased build rate. After all, Zombies have a 24-hour workday.

We had speced some workers to have minor strength (the mud golem was one) but unfortunaly once a worker has a point of strength the ai gets really stupid about its use as it sees it as a combat unit. So for AI purposes we cant have a worker with any strength.

I hope the feedback is helpful. Thanks again for a great mod.

Definitly great feedback. I can tell you really played a lot of the mod because you did a good job of finding our weak spots :)
 
I can very much understand not wanting to nerf the fire spells any more then you have, but I do also agree that they are still a bit over powered. The above point about using earth to destroy fortifications instead of fires seems like a great idea. Fire being a collateral damage weapon and a long range assault spell are still very very powerful. So again maybe having a spell like earth spikes or earthquake(and I know there is already a spell of that name) that does the reduction in fortification would make me more apt to get that earth node quickly.

*Shrug* I am not complaining though, I play this mod way more then I should as it is...making it better would just mean I would have less time in that thing I call the Day Star. :)

Oh...is there any spoiler on what you plan to do in the next Fire expansion?
 
I can very much understand not wanting to nerf the fire spells any more then you have, but I do also agree that they are still a bit over powered. The above point about using earth to destroy fortifications instead of fires seems like a great idea. Fire being a collateral damage weapon and a long range assault spell are still very very powerful. So again maybe having a spell like earth spikes or earthquake(and I know there is already a spell of that name) that does the reduction in fortification would make me more apt to get that earth node quickly.

*Shrug* I am not complaining though, I play this mod way more then I should as it is...making it better would just mean I would have less time in that thing I call the Day Star. :)

Oh...is there any spoiler on what you plan to do in the next Fire expansion?

Well, thinking about it. It could make some sense to give for example some fire protection for fortifications depending on the number of water nodes available on the city.
 
Yeah, unfortunaly that isnt easy to do. But it is possible with a little SDK work. I'll add it to the wish list. We may not use it for all units, but some would be nice to map relative.

Could you not use the def cannotTrain function in CvGameInterface.py to limit unit production to a certain number, depending on map size?
 
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