[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

I've got a question regarding the Knight and War Chariot units.

War Chariots have +1 offensive strength and %50 vs. Archer units, which is quite useful as Longbowmen and/or Crossbowmen are around in the late stages of the game. Meanwhile Knights only have a %10 better withdrawal rate when compared to War Chariots (%35 for Knights, %25 for War Chariots). Considering how War Chariots need Warhorses (a 3.2k research cost tech), and Knights need Armored Cavalry (a 6.4k research cost tech) isn't that a bit weird? I mean you have to research like at least 10 turns more for a weaker unit. I know they help you surpass the national unit limit but still the one later in the tech tree should be stronger shouldn't it?
 
Kael said:
If you could provide a save I'll check it out. Im unable to reproduce the issue.
Click to expand...
My apologies, Kael, but I don't have an auto-save to provide to you -- only the final from the game. It always happened when the enemy actually managed to defeat one of my units (after they took quite a few casualties) and the unit popped back to my capital. The rest of defenders inevitably went to a place outside the boundaries of the Calabim territory. As I mentioned before, this is new to me -- while I've had defenders abandon a city, they've always gone only a space or two away.

I probably won't play .32 again until this problem is fixed as it is extremely frustrating...
 

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Kael said:
If you could provide a save I'll check it out. Im unable to reproduce the issue.
Click to expand...

I had this issue myself after taking over an orc city, i reloaded so many times to try and see what was pushing 95% of my army away off the small continent onto a nearby south pole.

The only conclusion I could come too is the spell under air i think that can push units back. beyond that I have no clue
 
I'm currently playing a game with the Khazad (at the .31 level) and something has happened twice that I've never seen before... Going through my turns, all of a sudden the focus went on the defenders of a barbarian city I had taken quite a few turns before (I actually built the Forbidden Palace there to cut down on the maintenance costs of several cities I have on another continent). All the defenders had left the city -- the city was still mine, there was simply no defenders left in it (and, no, it wasn't in revolt).

I figured that I had screwed up some way and moved them all accidentally. Then, the next turn, the same thing happened. I don't know if it is significant, but I was using obsidian gates to move an army to the city (also moving armies into other cities on the continent, but they didn't experience this problem).

Has anyone ever ran into this... problem (?) and, if so, what causes it?

Thanks!!

Correction: Actually this issue is happening in TWO different cities, one of which isn't involved in my movement of armies so this does NOT appear to be the problem. I don't know if it matters, but it does look as if an opponent warship may be passing through the cities (maybe).
 
Omegon3 said:
I'm currently playing a game with the Khazad (at the .31 level) and something has happened twice that I've never seen before... Going through my turns, all of a sudden the focus went on the defenders of a barbarian city I had taken quite a few turns before (I actually built the Forbidden Palace there to cut down on the maintenance costs of several cities I have on another continent). All the defenders had left the city -- the city was still mine, there was simply no defenders left in it (and, no, it wasn't in revolt).

I figured that I had screwed up some way and moved them all accidentally. Then, the next turn, the same thing happened. I don't know if it is significant, but I was using obsidian gates to move an army to the city (also moving armies into other cities on the continent, but they didn't experience this problem).

Has anyone ever ran into this... problem (?) and, if so, what causes it?

Thanks!!

Correction: Actually this issue is happening in TWO different cities, one of which isn't involved in my movement of armies so this does NOT appear to be the problem. I don't know if it matters, but it does look as if an opponent warship may be passing through the cities (maybe).
Click to expand...

This is probably because they have a hidden nationality unit on their ships. this has been fixed in version 0.32
 
Kasdar said:
This is probably because they have a hidden nationality unit on their ships. this has been fixed in version 0.32
Click to expand...
Hidden nationality from one of your opponents will cause your defenders to leave a city? Is this just for privateers (though I don't think the ship was a privateer). I've never seen this before (and I've played a LOT of games)...
 
Well... My most humble apologies are in order to the FfH developers. I complained rather seriously via a couple of earlier posts that the .32 level introduced a bug that caused your attackers/defenders to flee to a point outside of the enemy's territory in the event that a Blood of the Phoenix unit was defeat (i.e. returned to the capital). While, yes, this is definitely a problem, it certainly wasn't introduced at the .32 level. I just finished playing a .31 game and, probably because I was now sensitive to it (and the game at the .32 level just made it so freakin' obvious!) and, lo and behold, it occurred there.

While I hope this bug gets fixed (soon?), again my apologies for blaming it on the .32 level.
 
I just finished playing a game with the Khazad and it brought a question to my mind for the designers of FfH...

For most civilizations, once you reach the Armored Cavalry stage and have constructed your national four knights (or whatever their version of knights are), you can start building horse archers once more. However, with the Khazad once you reach this stage (or War Horses, I'm not sure which), their version of the horse archer (the cool dude riding a boar) is no longer available even AFTER you construct all your national units. A similar thing occurs for hunters; once you reach the Animal Mastery stage you can no longer train hunters even after you get all four myconids.

My question is why the Khazad are treated different than other civs in this respect?

This is just curiousity on my part since the Khazad are also hit in other ways such as not being able to have mages. It seems like the above two issues are simply further handicaps an an otherwise neat race of beings.

Thanks.
 
Omegon3 said:
I just finished playing a game with the Khazad and it brought a question to my mind for the designers of FfH...

For most civilizations, once you reach the Armored Cavalry stage and have constructed your national four knights (or whatever their version of knights are), you can start building horse archers once more. However, with the Khazad once you reach this stage (or War Horses, I'm not sure which), their version of the horse archer (the cool dude riding a boar) is no longer available even AFTER you construct all your national units. A similar thing occurs for hunters; once you reach the Animal Mastery stage you can no longer train hunters even after you get all four myconids.

My question is why the Khazad are treated different than other civs in this respect?

This is just curiousity on my part since the Khazad are also hit in other ways such as not being able to have mages. It seems like the above two issues are simply further handicaps an an otherwise neat race of beings.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

This is most likely an unintended effect of the obsolete unit mechanic. I.e. as in normal Civ, there are units in FFH that are no longer available when their better counterparts are available (e.g. you cannot build Warriors in normal BTS when the late game units are available). This makes sense, too, but it doesn't work well when these units are replaced by national units (which are limited in number). In general, units that cannot be properly replaced or have unique abilities/promotions (like Freaks) are set to never be obsolete. Other units expire when you can build all units which a chosen unit can upgrade to, e.g. if you have the techs and buildings for Swordsmen and Archers, Warriors become obsolete in that city and can no longer be built. The tag to set them to never be obsolete seems to be missing for these two Khazad units right now. It's most likely not intentional but an oversight (not a bug per se, though, just something that hadn't been noticed so far).
 
Patch "b" is linked in the first post. It will break save games and includes the following fixes:

1. New Mimic model by seZereth.
2. New Svartalfar Hunter(ess) model by seZereth.
3. Centaurs cannot cast Sprint when fatigued.
4. An Empyrean disciple is now correctly rewarded when a player learns the Honor tech.
5. Elves can remove jungles.
6. Combat limited units (catapults, illusions) can no longer attack indefintly.
7. Grave discoveries dont refer to villagers anymore.
8. Units can cast bloom on improvements if their civ supports improvements on features (ljosalfar and svartalfar).
9. Casting delayed spells will move the selection to the next unit (instead of staying on the now immobile unit).
10. Limited the amount of disciples that the AI will build.
11. Ability to select a random good, neutral or evil leader (extremly awesome code by Sto!).
12. Added AIAutoPlay (for AI testing, code by jdog5000!).
13. Moved the declaration of the traits array into CvPlayer() instead of ::reset (no idea why it was in ::reset).
14. Changed the way the Adaptive and Insane traits trigger (Insane will now be a flat 2% chance per turn instead of being modified by other events).
 
It seems Kael forgot to mention that we're up to patch c now. All it does is fix a bug introduced by patch b
 
MagisterCultuum said:
It seems Kael forgot to mention that we're up to patch c now. All it does is fix a bug introduced by patch b
Click to expand...

There was no "b", it was all a dream. Ignore the man behind the curtain.
 
If you're going to make such a claim, you should probably edit your last post first. Or at least claim it was just a typo.
 
Great stuff. I played this over the weekend as Khazad. Awesome. :goodjob:

As a standalone, this beats the socks off of many fantasy-themed games. Terrific. Big kudos to Kael and everyone else involved. I have played a lot of RPGs and strategy games and have to say that the Fall from Heaven 2 is unrivalled. A brilliant masterpiece. :king:

The only issue I would raise is that some work is needed on the civilopedia and general documentation.

For instance, I made a beeline for Mithril Golem and met all of the listed requirements, but couldn't build it. On the forums someone said that the armageddon counter has to be high to build it, but I can't verify this. How high? This kind of thing would be nice to add to the civilopedia to assist in helping with research choices.

Playing the game I found all kind of undocumented features that would be nice to understand better. For instance, mages and priests seemed to gain XP automatically over time up to about 17. How is this calculated? It would be nice if listed in the civilopedia.

Another issue looking through the civilopedia is that may intriguing units and heroes were found that my culture had no access to, and the civilopedia made no mention of the civs that were able to build them. This would be helpful in decision making processes about which civ to play as well as understanding adversaries. There are a lot of really cool looking units but I have no idea which civ would have access to them; there is really a lot of guesswork as the civilopedia is incomplete about requirements.:scan:
 
WoundedKnight said:
On the forums someone said that the armageddon counter has to be high to build it, but I can't verify this. How high?
Click to expand...

It requires AC 70.

One other unit, Meshabber of Dis, requires the same AC. This is an Ashen Veil hero/avatar, requiring the AV holy city. Its base strength is lower, but it can get promotions.
 
Adaptive is triggered by an event roughly every 100 or so turns.. least on the speed I play at. Popup comes up, asks you to choose a trait, one of the traits that isn't adaptive is replaced with your choice.
 
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