[MOD] Fall from Heaven II
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WoundedKnight
Warlord
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Good to know.
The hell terrain burning down forests is tough to keep up with (Emporer, Khazad, last days) -- my nature-spell adepts can't push it back quick enough with the Armageddon counter in the high 90s... the whole world is on its way to hell terrain.
Next time I will play without "last days". Cool stuff, though. I did it for the mithril golem (needs AC=70)
The hell terrain burning down forests is tough to keep up with (Emporer, Khazad, last days) -- my nature-spell adepts can't push it back quick enough with the Armageddon counter in the high 90s... the whole world is on its way to hell terrain.
Next time I will play without "last days". Cool stuff, though. I did it for the mithril golem (needs AC=70)
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Nature adepts? What can they do to combat hell? Do you mean Life adepts?
WoundedKnight
Warlord
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You're right. Life I for sanctify.
Anyway, as I've found, the really bad thing about hell terrain is that your units get ENRAGED. Once they get ENRAGED they have a 3% chance per turn to turn into barbarians, unless they go into combat. You can lose cities instantly this way.
It is disenheartening to see veteran units with loads of promotions get ENRAGED and become barbarians.
With this being the case, and no way I can find to resist the rage effect, why would anyone want Ashen Veil religion (=increases Armageddon counter & hell terrain spreads faster, burning down trees & enraging units).
thealien_83
King
The Sheaim civilization gets increasingly powerful as the AC rises.
Barbarian leaders (Hyborem, Charadon, Jonas Endain, Sheelba) don't need to worry about barbarians.
Units built in the Ashen Veil holy city get the Stigmata promotion for free, making them more powerful the higher the AC is.
Just a few compelling reasons. That, and of course that it's just plain cool.
WoundedKnight
Warlord
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Even if they don't have to worry about being attacked by barbarians, isn't there still the problem of enraged units in hell terrain turning into barbarians?
That's what I find the most problematic. It's not the fires burning down forests, or rampaging barbarians. It's losing my own veteran units.
That's what I find the most problematic. It's not the fires burning down forests, or rampaging barbarians. It's losing my own veteran units.
Nor'easter
Deity
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WoundedKnight said:
Hell terrain is not what causes the enraged promotion. It's the arrival of the Avatar of Wrath when the AC hits 90 that causes it.
Ambreville
Deity
IIRC the Loyalty promotion does not prevent them from turning barb either, which makes the problem worse (or was this changed?)
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Loyalty didn't stop them from turning barb when Wrath turned them directly, but I think it does stop them from turning from being enraged. I think the Avatar can still convert units it defeats though.
The Sheaim's demonic units are not effected by Wrath, iirc, so they are better off than most civs.
In my modmod, I'm planning to add either a Profane spell or an AV-only Ritual that gives you a temporary peace treaty with the barbarian state, probably with some downside. I'm also considering adding some way for an AV civ to make a permanent alliance with the barbs. That is really helpful with surviving the AC events, but it would mean declaring war on essentially everyone.
The Sheaim's demonic units are not effected by Wrath, iirc, so they are better off than most civs.
In my modmod, I'm planning to add either a Profane spell or an AV-only Ritual that gives you a temporary peace treaty with the barbarian state, probably with some downside. I'm also considering adding some way for an AV civ to make a permanent alliance with the barbs. That is really helpful with surviving the AC events, but it would mean declaring war on essentially everyone.
WoundedKnight
Warlord
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Where is the Avatar of Wrath and what do you do about it?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I don't know. I can't see your map. He spawns in a random location @ AC 90. He is a Str 33 waterwalking demon, that can summon 4 water walking Ira demons.
WoundedKnight
Warlord
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The civilopedia says that a large portion of the world's living units will convert to his cause when he appears, but it seems to be an ongoing matter where every turn I am losing new units to the barbarians. I've never seen the Avatar of Wrath (and my game has "lock modified assets." Looks like I need to make some more raids into barbarian territory to eliminate all barbarians.
Presumably this problem may be worse for leaders with the barbarian trait because they can't attack the avatar of wrath?
Presumably this problem may be worse for leaders with the barbarian trait because they can't attack the avatar of wrath?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The civilopedia is outdated. It used to convert units directly, but that was really hard on older computers so it was changed to giving everyone enraged.
I'd say it is probably much easier on the barbarian trait leaders, so long as they can keep peace with the barbs. I don't see why they would want to attack the Avatar of Wrath, which wouldn't hurt them and would really hurt their enemies. The Avatar is the strongest unit in the game, and it captures every (living?) unit it defeats. (I'm not sure where this is handled, and I haven't come across him in a long time, but I know that he used to do this when I saw him last, oddly only if under barbarian control). I'd much rather be on his good side than be able to get rid of the enraged promotion through suicide attacks.
It makes more sense for the Barb trait civs to declare war on people and join the barbarian/demonic horde in destroying the world.
I personally don't like Enraged being removed by combat. I usually change it back to how it used to work, where it simply has a small chance to wear off. I've also added an Elohim-only spell that removes Enraged.
I'd say it is probably much easier on the barbarian trait leaders, so long as they can keep peace with the barbs. I don't see why they would want to attack the Avatar of Wrath, which wouldn't hurt them and would really hurt their enemies. The Avatar is the strongest unit in the game, and it captures every (living?) unit it defeats. (I'm not sure where this is handled, and I haven't come across him in a long time, but I know that he used to do this when I saw him last, oddly only if under barbarian control). I'd much rather be on his good side than be able to get rid of the enraged promotion through suicide attacks.
It makes more sense for the Barb trait civs to declare war on people and join the barbarian/demonic horde in destroying the world.
I personally don't like Enraged being removed by combat. I usually change it back to how it used to work, where it simply has a small chance to wear off. I've also added an Elohim-only spell that removes Enraged.
wuntoothrie
Choco.dile
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
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I am playing as the Lurchip and I've realized that the Lurchip have no unit able to take on the subdue beast promotion ...
is there a loophole I can capitalize on, or are the Lurchip fated to never know the pleasures of commanding a captured dragon or giant monkey ...
is there a loophole I can capitalize on, or are the Lurchip fated to never know the pleasures of commanding a captured dragon or giant monkey ...
Rex rgis of Ter
Me I'm a Creator
The Luchurip cannot gain subdued beast, but there are other ways of capturing a unit. Using the command promotions (available to disciple and some heroes) you can convert living units. Also, the Mind III spell, domination can convert any living unit.
OTOH, you can become neutral (adopt Esus or OO) and build druids.
OTOH, you can become neutral (adopt Esus or OO) and build druids.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Druids cannot get Subdue Beast either. Subdue Beast requires the Animal Mastery tech, UNITCOMBAT_RECON, and both the Subdue Animal and Hero promotion (plus of course Beastsmasters start with it). Also, the Luchuirp would have Dwarven Druids instead.
The only way they can get Subdue Beast is to use command promotions or Domination to capture a unit with it or that can get it. Dragons are immune to magic, so domination won't work on them directly. Or to hope that a recon unit gets that rare event that grants Hero.
I my version I made Yvain the Woodelf start with Subdue Beasts. I'll probably go ahead and let the Luchuip get normal Beastmasters too.
The only way they can get Subdue Beast is to use command promotions or Domination to capture a unit with it or that can get it. Dragons are immune to magic, so domination won't work on them directly. Or to hope that a recon unit gets that rare event that grants Hero.
I my version I made Yvain the Woodelf start with Subdue Beasts. I'll probably go ahead and let the Luchuip get normal Beastmasters too.
GeeJo
Flibbertigibbet
Wasn't there also an event that can add the Hero promotion to a unit? Or am I misremembering?
Broken Hawk
Emperor
Yes, you are correct. In my last game, one of my Khazad Champions became a Hero through an event.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Yeah, FfH has to be updated to be compatible with the new BtS patch first. Unfortunately Kael is in Utah for his job right now, and doesn't have access to his CIV IV computer. He said he will start the conversion when he gets back. My guess is that FfH II 0.32 won't be made compatible with 3.17, since Kael was planning on releasing 0.33 fairly soon anyway.
