[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Hello, I'm playing a game as the Bannor and waltzed a mighty stack including Sphener, several level 10+ Paladins with demon-slaying promotions, and a bunch of Crusaders, all with Blessed and Courage promotions, to the hellhole of Dis and started whacking away at the Hyborem hero. Every time I get him down below 15 hit points or so, my unit retreats. It happens again and again -- units battle it out, but when Hyborem is about to die, my unit retreats.

What's going on? Am I missing something here?

I'm playing patch "g"
 
Are you sure your units retreat? IIRC Hyborem is immortal and thus when he dies he is retransfered to his capital (Dis). To get rid of him you have to kill him twice in one turn. As I haven't played in quite some time I don't know if thats really the case though.
 
Hyborem isn't inherently Immortal, he just has the Immortal promotion. This doesn't require he be killed twice in one turn, but simply twice; the promotion wears off then the unit dies, letting you kill him permanently.

However, there was a bug introduced in patch g, and fixed in patch h, that caused the immortal promotion to not wear off properly.
 
Hyborem isn't inherently Immortal, he just has the Immortal promotion. This doesn't require he be killed twice in one turn, but simply twice; the promotion wears off then the unit dies, letting you kill him permanently.

However, there was a bug introduced in patch g, and fixed in patch h, that caused the immortal promotion to not wear off properly.

Ah, I will try updating to "h" and see if he stills cling miserably to the material plane ...

EDIT: Nope, he still won't die ... here's my saved game

View attachment Sabathiel AD-0427.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
I believe that Kael said that he wouldn't lose Immortality after being killed in a game started before the patch unless you remove the promotion in worldbuilder and add it back. (Maybe I should have mentioned that before.)
 
Instead of an Apocalypse Counter, has a "End Times Continuum" been considered?

Currently, the Apocalypse Counter only really seems to involve a Good versus Evil battle, represented, interms of religion, by the Order and Empyrean on one side and Ashen Veil and Octopus Overlords on the other. This leaves (pardon the pun) the Fellowship of the Leaves, Kilmorph and the atheist Grigori, i.e. the Neutrals, without an goal for the end times.

An "End Time Continuum" would instead of just clicking upwards like the Apocalypse Counter does, would be a positive number (green) as events and actions tended towards Good and a negative number (red) as they tended towards Evil.

If the Continuum reached a certain Good Number, A Rapture/Paradise on Earth/Etc. occurs.

If it reaches a certain Evil Number, the events currently in the Apocalypse Counter would occur.

Obviously, the Good and Evil Civs would work to counter these events, but the Neutrals would seek to keep the End Times Continuum in the middle. This could be by balancing good and evil events, but specific neutral or balancing actions, buildings, wonders could be included.

Also, is anything being planned to differentiate the various religions of the same alignment from each other? Other than some units, the Order and Empyrean are very similar goals and traits. Perhaps there could be some hostility injected between them, sort of like between Protestants and Catholics in the 30 Years War/Northern Ireland or Shia and Sunni, on the basis that the Order seeks Domination, whereas Empyrean seeks Peace and Concord. Likewise, tension should exist between the Tree Huggers and the Rock Grubbers.

Additionally, Octupus Overlords seems to be a bit of a relic from the early versions of the FFH mod, in that it doesn't really have any unique purpose nor do the actual "Octopus Overlords" clearly fit into the mythology or make an appearance. Perhaps having Cthlulu (renamed for copyright purposes) appear as comparable to the Hyperborean, Basium, the Mithril Golem, etc.
 
I'm hooked on you baby
but the seas keep us apart
and there aint no eye patch big enough
to cover up my broken heart.

10/10 mod, just brilliant, BUT, I recognized some music from Star Trek Deep Space 9: The Fallen, so :p
 
Are you sure your units retreat? IIRC Hyborem is immortal and thus when he dies he is retransfered to his capital (Dis). To get rid of him you have to kill him twice in one turn. As I haven't played in quite some time I don't know if thats really the case though.
I'm not terribly convinced that Hyborem returns to his capital when killed; I have found that he remains in the city where he initially died. For example, in the game I am currently playing Hyborem declared war on me (I've noticed him doing this a LOT more!!) and fortunately I had quite a few strong troops close to Dis (and a mage that could cast courage!!). I took the city easily since Hyborem had moved out of it to another of his cities. I have found that, regardless of where he is killed, he remains in the city where he died unless I'm completely missing something (which is possible).

HOWEVER, you are correct in that in virtually all cases units with the immortal promotion (either permanent or just one death) return to the capital. Hyborem is the only one of which I'm aware that, for whatever reason, doesn't return to his capital.
 
I'm not terribly convinced that Hyborem returns to his capital when killed; I have found that he remains in the city where he initially died. For example, in the game I am currently playing Hyborem declared war on me (I've noticed him doing this a LOT more!!) and fortunately I had quite a few strong troops close to Dis (and a mage that could cast courage!!). I took the city easily since Hyborem had moved out of it to another of his cities. I have found that, regardless of where he is killed, he remains in the city where he died unless I'm completely missing something (which is possible).

HOWEVER, you are correct in that in virtually all cases units with the immortal promotion (either permanent or just one death) return to the capital. Hyborem is the only one of which I'm aware that, for whatever reason, doesn't return to his capital.

Well, if you took Dis before killing him, his capital would move to another of his cities. Perhaps he was in his new capital!?
Nevertheless as said before I was wrong on my explanation ;)
 
I could see some of the magic loving civs falling for OO, too. I'm not even that concerned about the Khazak or the Svaltalfar (think Duergar and Drow elves from D&D).

My point is more that their religion doesn't have a point. What do the Octopus Overlord expect and demand of their worshippers for the world?

I think it would depend on how you interpret them.

If its an aquatic religion, then might they be seeking to flood the world and turn it all into oceans? Adding some events or units that converts terrain into oceans would fit this goal.

Or are they psionic/telepathic like Cthlulu from H.P. Lovecraft and the mindflayers from D&D? Then they should seek enslavement of others. Give them heightened Charm Person powers. Maybe give them a wonder that give them a chance of forcing another civ to become a vassal.

My overall point is that each religion should have some sort of goal. The Hyperborean/Ashen Veil intends to bring hell to earth. The Mercurian/Order/Empyrean all ostensibly have the goal of stopping this. This is a negative goal, in that it isn't to accomplish anything, just stop something. A better goal would be to actually make something occur, i.e. instead of the Fall, they should have the goal of Return to Heaven.

It seems that the Illians will have the goal of returning Auric to godhood, in the next iteration of FfH.

Likewise, FoL and Kilmorph don't have any purpose.

The Tree Huggers like to plant trees and spread ancient forests, but there's no victory associated with that. Maybe they could have a victory condition tied to spreading forests over a certain % of the world.

The rock grubbers don't even really have that. Perhaps give them a victory condition related to cornering the metals commodities.

And all the Grigori seem to want is to sit around and chill.
 
My point is more that their religion doesn't have a point. What do the Octopus Overlord expect and demand of their worshippers for the world?

I think it would depend on how you interpret them.

If its an aquatic religion, then might they be seeking to flood the world and turn it all into oceans? Adding some events or units that converts terrain into oceans would fit this goal.

Or are they psionic/telepathic like Cthlulu from H.P. Lovecraft and the mindflayers from D&D? Then they should seek enslavement of others. Give them heightened Charm Person powers. Maybe give them a wonder that give them a chance of forcing another civ to become a vassal.

The Octopus Overlords seeks domination. They were created when the Archangel of Greed and Mind Magic, Hastur, took control of the Angel of Water, Daladin. The Overlords are manifestations of Daladin's dreams, and want their people to serve them without will. Look aat their unique wonder, tower of complacency, it shows their mind control tendencies.

They do not need a unique victory, but they have a leg up on conquest vitcories. Tsunamis from waterwalking speakers is nigh unstoppable, so they can take coast with ease.

My overall point is that each religion should have some sort of goal.

The Hyperborean/Ashen Veil intends to bring hell to earth. The Mercurian/Order/Empyrean all ostensibly have the goal of stopping this. This is a negative goal, in that it isn't to accomplish anything, just stop something. A better goal would be to actually make something occur, i.e. instead of the Fall, they should have the goal of Return to Heaven.

The entire reason the Order was formed was to combat evil and stop it. Once that is accomplished, I imagine it would exist to stop any other threats.
The Empyrean is the opposite of the Order. While the Order is crusading agsint the heathens, the Empyrean seeks to redeem and convert them with reasoning and logic.

I suyppose if you wanted to rise to heaven you could try a Lunnnotar victory.

Likewise, FoL and Kilmorph don't have any purpose.

The Tree Huggers like to plant trees and spread ancient forests, but there's no victory associated with that. Maybe they could have a victory condition tied to spreading forests over a certain % of the world.

The rock grubbers don't even really have that. Perhaps give them a victory condition related to cornering the metals commodities.

The Fellowship of Leaves is the religion of the weakest ogd. He cannot control his worshippers, and he simply tends to his domain, nature. Thus FoL has many interpretations. When a Calabim religion it could highlight Darwinism and Prey vs. Predator, when Lanun it could be worshipping the watery side of Nature, etc.

The Runes of Kilmorph is very much interested in keeping on traditions and being industrious. It's only goal is to progress but honor the old ways.

Unique religious victories were never included because religions are not unified. At one point the Order became corrupt and tried to slay the true servants of Junil (including Valin Phanuel). Each religion/civ combonation can be interpreted differently.

And all the Grigori seem to want is to sit around and chill.

Lunnotar Victory!
 
Sorry if this has been addessed elsewhere but how do you turn off adventure mode?

I would incldue the following in your CivilizationIV.ini file (this is where your prefered options are stored):

Code:
; Game Options
GameOptions = 00000000000000000000000100011000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Adventure mode is actually the 25th digit (the digit after the first 1), so make sure that is a 0 to be disabled.
 
@ Rex Rgis

I just had to say I love your way of putting it... :goodjob:

Never felt that each religion had to have a specific goal, it is just so mch more fun to "role play" the game and set yuor own goals, and if not evil or good at the beginning, choose who you wish to fight for if not for your own cause in the end...

I still must admit Perpentach the insane and OO is my favorite combo... his freakshows and armies of raging lunatics and freaks of nature is just the way I imagine total chaos to be. I really love that guy so... unpredictable... so ME. :crazyeye:
 
I think I would really like to see some "ultimate goal" type of thing, attainable before victory conditions, for each civ or religion. I love that in Rhye's and Fall, as it helps give a goal for the mid-end game drag.
 
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