[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[Lord Yanaek]

Hello, i'm now some 200 turns in my first "fire" game, and wanted to share some feedback. I only have patch "a" so far (i found b and c when i came here for feedback).

First, you all did an amazing job once again. I think FfH is the best mod i saw for ANY game i played so far. In fact, it's like a different game and, as far as i'm concerned, much better than Vanilla Civ.

Now, for some feedback. I'm playing the Seaims (or whatever they spell) this game, as it's the best way to make sure i can see most of the new features . I saved my game 1 turn befor founding the veil, so i could switch to test infernals, and reload to continue playing sheiams.

1. The veil was actually founded at the end of my turn, so the infernals got to AI-play one turn before i could take control of them. When i was able to take control, they already built a city, at a rather stupid spot, right next to my border so he had very little space to expand while the map was still havily unpopulated. It would be nice (if possible) to take control of hybo before he can make something stupid!
2. I thought hybo should have good relations with his summoner. In fact i only had the normal bonus (when playing sheaims) for having the same religion and being evil, i had a negative modifier because of tensions on our borders (stupid him for putting his city there). I think there should be some bonus specific to his summoner (+4 you summoned me)
3. Still playing Sheiams : some time later hybo and me were fighting that tree hugging heretic Thessa located on the same island as us, when all of a sudden, hybo who had a nice +7 with me declared war on me . I know he's a demon and he might not necessarily be a nice neighbour, but he shouldn't act stupid either. He declared war on his ally with no reason There were plenty of place to expand, Thessa was still atacking him, and he decided to start a second front. I quickly killed his remaining longbow-demon with chaos marauders and then he just sat there, doing nothing. Hybo himself never left Dis, he acted just like Acheron.
4. When a Mobius witch comes through a gate, she comes with 14 XP and level 4, but can only take her free promotion!?
5. During the game, one of my plains tile stared to "flame" then turned to burning sands. I thought only forests could burn, and only deserts would turn to BS.
6. Does burning sands "flame" forever once they start? It means you can't improve tiles there if there is a special ressource, and you can't "spring" them to hellish plains (broken lands?) with a water adept. Or could you just stop the fires by casting spring next to them?
7. When i switched to hybo, i got an ugly -4 relation with my former civ, the Sheiams for "merely being a man" I heard Os Gabella hates man, so i guess it's this penality, but a huge red demon is hardly a man . I think there should be a bonus to relations between the summoner and hybo ("+4 you answered my call" or something like this)
8. The veil currently gives +1 culture in cities, and not +1 research. Is it a change or a bug?

Oh, and i noticed a bug when trying to start a game with the FfH map scripts (FfH-smartmap, FfH-continents ...). The game freezes during initialisation. Normal scripts work just nicely. I guess those maps were made for Light and don't work with fire. Maybe this should be posted somewhere.

Lastly, i enabled python pop-ups, and i receive an error when i launch FfH (just befor the main menu appears) that just doesn't seem to affect the game. Here it is :

Traceback (most recent call las)
File "<string>", line 1, in ?
File "<string>", line 52, in load_module
File "FfH2_120x60", line 10, in ?
ImportError : No module named Image

Then i click OK and get a second error

Failed to load python module FfH2_120x60

Then the game runs fine.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Or could you just stop the fires by casting spring next to them?

Yes.

Oh, and i noticed a bug when trying to start a game with the FfH map scripts (FfH-smartmap, FfH-continents ...). The game freezes during initialisation. Normal scripts work just nicely. I guess those maps were made for Light and don't work with fire. Maybe this should be posted somewhere

New versions have been posted in the disscussion forum.

The veil was actually founded at the end of my turn, so the infernals got to AI-play one turn before i could take control of them. When i was able to take control, they already built a city, at a rather stupid spot, right next to my border so he had very little space to expand while the map was still havily unpopulated. It would be nice (if possible) to take control of hybo before he can make something stupid!

Hmm, that gives me an idea--perhaps the infernals could come in two waves--first Hyboream, some imps, and the sects of flies, then a turn or two later his settlers, archers, and manes. It'd solve the problem Bob Morane pointed out, and the fact that it seems the AI likes to use their hero to guard the settlers.
(Unless you do go with the Hell peninsula idea, then nevermind.)

 

[J-S]

Thanks for fixing the crash!

I continued playing my game, with the Bannor, and eventually I was able to complete the Mercurian Gate (world wonder that creates the Basium civ) and let me just say that I absolutely loved the idea of changing into the Basium and leading my hordes of angels to battle the Infernals!!!
For those of you who haven't tried it yet, I highly recommend it, and offer the following tip: choose well the city in which you build the Gate, because that will be your starting city with Basium, so make sure you have enough space to expand (or conquer). Oh, and you automatically are teamed up with your former civ so research and any extra resources (including mana) will be shared. And also, but I don't know if it's because of Basium or because of my very poor relations with many evil/neutral civs, 4 civs declared war on me almost inmediately (so I had no choice but to wipe them out ).
Finally, I got aprox 1-4 angels every turn from wars going on everywhere (altho only 3 civs where good), so it's really a good head start.

Now, having said that, I actually got the impression that Basium was pretty overpowered with all the angels I got for free, while the Infernals stayed in their 1-city island and were pretty easy to beat...
Maybe angels could have a 'national cap' for every city owned by Basium (or for every city owned by a good civ), and to counter that they could be inmortal, being reborn after they die in the city which has the Mercurian Gate.

My 2 cents!

Thanks for an awesome game!!!

 

[thealien_83]

Yes, in fact infernal workers are unable to build farms.

Oh? Well that makes sense then I guess. Could have sworn I saw that option. Perhaps I was using a kidnapped Worker. Or I just imagined it. Either way, either way.

 

[AncientSion]

By the way, i LOVE how certain ressources (sheep ? cattle?) turn to giant frogs when you are Ashen Vail.
This is EXACTLY the flavour this excellent mod needs.

Now how about giant frog rider ? Im serious.

 

[dreadknought]

Dont really knows if its possible but I wish the Elves could improve forests/tiles without destroying them as this would make sense, maybe something like harmony with nature, +1 shield. I think Elves would wont to preserve the forests for defense if they can. Possibly even discover a hidden resource for them if they improve forest tiles. That way you can play the Elves as the defenders of nature, keepers of the forest, ect...Maybe their power could increase with building a couple different layers of forest improvements. Normally you destroy forest tiles to farm/mine ect, maybe elves could build forest type improvements that replace the forests themselves , such as cultivated forest, elven hunting preserves, something along that line.

This also would lend itself to playing the elves defensively using the forest bonuses to level your troops and would cause a natural dislike non-forest loving races.

 

[thealien_83]

Dont really knows if its possible but I wish the Elves could improve forests without destroying them as this would make sense, maybe something like harmony with nature, +1 shield. I think Elves would wont to preserve the forests for defense if they can. Possibly even discover a hidden resource for them if they improve forest tiles. That way you can play the Elves as the defenders of nature, keepers of the forest, ect...

The Ljosalfar already do that. They build 'Elven' variants of most improvements, 'Elven Farms' 'Elven Cottage' and whatnot, and those can be built on top of a forest without removing the forest. So.. Yeah. That's already in the game.

 

[dreadknought]

The Ljosalfar already do that. They build 'Elven' variants of most improvements, 'Elven Farms' 'Elven Cottage' and whatnot, and those can be built on top of a forest without removing the forest. So.. Yeah. That's already in the game.

Yes, They build improvements called Elven farm, ect.. but the forest from the improved tile is gone, Im saying build improvements that actually add to the forest tile itself rather than change it to something else, Im playing as Arendel now and once you add mine, farm, cottage improvements the Elven cities dont look hidden in forest like I would imagine. Maybe they can replace forests with other improved forest tile features, leaving out the standard..farm --mine--cottage upgrades...Instead you have all uniques forest tiles for elves only. In otherwords you can rename tile improvements to say Elven but they need to build improvments to make the landscape look Elven with added forest features. In other words no Elven farms, cottages, mines but a unique FOREST build path for the elves, not sure it can be done but would add another glorious layer if fun, imo. Imagine playing races (ELVES) who uniquely change the tiles that no other race can do, then you create a unique border, maybe even have them use a slightly different colored forest build out.

Added--First build for a Elven Civ, should be Elven Forest(replacing reg. forest tiles) with unique stats and fast movement without roads for Elves, even doubtful Elves need to build roads in forest at all, would simply help the enemies.

 

[JDexter]

When I built improvements in forests with elven workers, already ages ago, the forrest always stayed (for farms and cottages). So as thealien said, it's already in the game. The forrest doesn't get removed - neither visually and nor bonus-wise.

 

[AncientSion]

By the way, i LOVE how certain ressources (sheep ? cattle?) turn to giant frogs when you are Ashen Vail.
This is EXACTLY the flavour this excellent mod needs.

Now how about giant frog rider ? Im serious.

While im at it. I want my horse-pen to turn a nightmare-pen ! Sounds reasonable i think.

 

[Love]

^^ cool

 

[J-S]

Is it possible to have 'terrain wonders'? As in, a terrain improvement that takes a huge amount of time to build, gives huge bonuses and can only be built once in the whole world.
For example, the Mines of Dahl'gur (spl) could be a terrain improvement, instead of having to be built in a city, that once built on a mountain tile creates a source of iron on it.
I think this could lead to plenty of cool stuff...

 

[AncientSion]

Sounds like a very cool idea. However, cant you just build a wonder with gives + 10 hammer and iron ? Terrain wonders would be cool though.

 

[Rhymes]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended, so I'm posting here:

I'm currently playing the Khazad with Fire patch C, I have Researched Golem Mastery, I have acces to Mithril, I have the RunesofKillmorph Holy city with a Golem workshop in it, but I'm still unable to build The mithril Golem...?

I checked the civilopedia and there are no other requirement listed.

Am I missing something?

 

[Kael]

Patch "d" is loaded and linked in the first, it fixes the following issues:

1. Chance of religions being handed out lowered to 20% from 100%.
2. Sheaim planar gate odds are now calculated correctly (thanks Xanaqui42!).
3. Fixed a CtD in the FindClearPlot function.
4. Halved the hammers provided by sacrificing Manes.
5. Fixed the damage done by the Tsunami spell (thanks Xanaqui42!).
6. Reduced Maelstrom damage from 31-90 to 26-75 base damage.
7. Added a requires tag to units if they require a certain Amageddon count.
8. Fixed the issue where Wrath could appear multiple times.
9. The Ashen Veil isn't pushed to cities the Infernals take immediatly (so they arent count as AV cities if they are razed).
10. The Order is removed from all Infernal cities.
11. Modified the chance of getting angels and manes by the amount of players in the game (the more players the less chance angels and manes are awarded).
12. The Ashen Veil is removed from all Mercurian cities.

It won't break save games.

 

[Kael]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended, so I'm posting here:

I'm currently playing the Khazad with Fire patch C, I have Researched Golem Mastery, I have acces to Mithril, I have the RunesofKillmorph Holy city with a Golem workshop in it, but I'm still unable to build The mithril Golem...?

I checked the civilopedia and there are no other requirement listed.

Am I missing something?

It require a minimum armageddon count, with patch "d" you will be able to see it.

 

[beorn]

Patch "d" is loaded and linked in the first, it fixes the following issues:

1. Chance of religions being handed out lowered to 20% from 100%.

This refers to the chance of a disciple successfully spreading his religion in a city?

 

[Kael]

This refers to the chance of a disciple successfully spreading his religion in a city?

No, of a unit adopting the religion of the city he is built in.

 

[dreadknought]

When I built improvements in forests with elven workers, already ages ago, the forrest always stayed (for farms and cottages). So as thealien said, it's already in the game. The forrest doesn't get removed - neither visually and nor bonus-wise.

Thats fine, buy why not have elves start and work with forest improvements, it would really set them apART, IMO. I guess elves building mines and farms isnt mentally working on some level for me.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I noticed a minor problem with the Armaggedon clock. When the tech icons appear for you to select for the next research path, the clock is in the way of the icon at the very left, so you can't click it.