[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[Grey Fox]

This may sound like a dumb question, but does the AC rise higher or go slower at different difficulty levels? I play on either Immortal or Emperor and I to find it hard to get the counter past 20, even when 4-6 civs on a small Highlands map converted to the Veil.

I don't know. I play on the same difficulty levels and the counter almost always reach 40. I play on standard maps, so that might be why. On normal speed.

In my latest Immortal Loss, os-gabella founded Veil, built Rosier the Fallen. The Prophecy of Ragnarok, and brought the AC to 40 before turn 170, after which she quickly declared war and took me out.

 

[wayeward]

I don't know. I play on the same difficulty levels and the counter almost always reach 40. I play on standard maps, so that might be why. On normal speed.

In my latest Immortal Loss, os-gabella founded Veil, built Rosier the Fallen. The Prophecy of Ragnarok, and brought the AC to 40 before turn 170, after which she quickly declared war and took me out.

I wonder if my problem has something to do with small maps where the game quickly becomes combat oriented (for the PC, who has to contend with angry comps who want room to expand) when there are 15 or so civs. Perhaps, given the time and space, civs have more time to build the wonders and spread relgion so that the counter rises? I suppose I could always raise every city (or hope they raise mine).

 

[thealien_83]

So.. Playing a game with one of my mates online, I notice something rather.. Odd.

I'm playing the Sidar, and I have Octopus Overlords as religion. I have Saverous. Now I end up in a war with my Balseraph neighbor, and Saverous is of course at the frontlines of that. So they lay siege to a city of mine, with the big man himself in it. Deciding to be bold, I attack out of the city instead of sit there and let his damn catapults pummel me. I win the battle, of course, and as it so happens Saverous has Fear..

Now I read the description about scattering enemies or whatnot. First of all I wonder, does that happen -instead- of the old Fear mechanic where units might refuse to attack the unit with Fear?
Second.. Is it.. Uhm.. Really meant to be that Fear transports the entire enemy stack three squares away ? 'cause that's the "scatter" that happened when Saverous beat up that poor clown swordsman. All the units in the stack jumped three squares away into the nearest Balseraph border city, leaving Saverous stranded in a forest scratching his head wondering where all the meatbags ran off.

 

[Grey Fox]

I wonder if my problem has something to do with small maps where the game quickly becomes combat oriented (for the PC, who has to contend with angry comps who want room to expand) when there are 15 or so civs. Perhaps, given the time and space, civs have more time to build the wonders and spread relgion so that the counter rises? I suppose I could always raise every city (or hope they raise mine).

Prophecy of Ragnarok is probably one of the biggest reasons for the AC to raise in my games. That and Veil spread.

 

[Soam]

The religion spread isn't balanced IMO, try picking the opponents when you play.

I'm going to have to agree with you on that.
I think my problem then is map size combined with that. With less cities for the veil to spread to the counter can't rise high enough. Is it possible to make changes to the counter double or even triple on smaller map sizes? I know there is a new option now that does it but it just doesn't cut it on a small map.

I just like the idea of me as the Bannor fighting off Armageddon but instead it's more like me as the Bannor living in uneasy peace with the good/neutral versions of Jonas Endain or Alexis.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I think Kael fixed the stack-scatter bug next version, thealien 83.

 

[Breunor]

heh... I didn't mean it was broken just feels impossible to get it up unless I do it myself. The problem I have is that Runes and Leaves spread so fast that by the time other religions are available nobody switches. Is there any way to scale the mod for map sizes? Or make the evil civs stay away from leaves and runes?

I find it varies quite a bit game to game. Sometimes the AC gets to 60 very fast, sometimes it never gets to 20.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Kyrian]

Hi.
The armageddon counter is a very big problem for me.
When you want to play an evil civ, you can raise it, but keeping under control. (a thing very very difficult)
When you are neutral, you have few more possibilities to keep away its influence.
When you are good, you can only pray, pray and pray.
It's value is often influenced by other player.
During my game, when there were many good or neutral AI civ, the counter did not raise over 20,40 maximum.
In Evil game It is often under control.
How can an human player keeps it under a normal value?
You can declare war to Ashen Veil Civ and try to destroy Holy city, but probably you will increment counter more, becouse the bonus is too low.
In a my game there is a Ashen Veil holy city with 20 of population.
I destroy it and the counter went down only about 5 points!
The same thing if you destroy the infernal Civ..
Some games so are non playable..

Other thing about religions...it is a non sense that an AI good player converts its civ to an evil religion only because that religion had been spreaded in your land? And also between evil player and felloship of leaves it's the same.
It would not be better if a player could adopt a religion away only one step by its alignment?
Because infernal that adores leaves is a little strange?

Sorry for english, thanks

 

[Ambreville]

Your English is fine enough. You're right (IMHO), and much of what you mentioned has already been brought up. The big problem with the AC is that it can be hard to manage, and in some cases downright impossible. It's too bad because it's a neat concept. What really gets me is that you will be a victim of its effects when you play an evil civ -- even though, by design, an evil civ is expected to cause the AC to rise. That's self-defeating, and it's one of the reasons why I often switch the AC off entirely.

Hi.
The armageddon counter is a very big problem for me.
When you want to play an evil civ, you can raise it, but keeping under control. (a thing very very difficult)
When you are neutral, you have few more possibilities to keep away its influence.
When you are good, you can only pray, pray and pray.
It's value is often influenced by other player.
During my game, when there were many good or neutral AI civ, the counter did not raise over 20,40 maximum.
In Evil game It is often under control.
How can an human player keeps it under a normal value?
You can declare war to Ashen Veil Civ and try to destroy Holy city, but probably you will increment counter more, becouse the bonus is too low.
In a my game there is a Ashen Veil holy city with 20 of population.
I destroy it and the counter went down only about 5 points!
The same thing if you destroy the infernal Civ..
Some games so are non playable..

Other thing about religions...it is a non sense that an AI good player converts its civ to an evil religion only because that religion had been spreaded in your land? And also between evil player and felloship of leaves it's the same.
It would not be better if a player could adopt a religion away only one step by its alignment?
Because infernal that adores leaves is a little strange?

Sorry for english, thanks

 

[thealien_83]

I think Kael fixed the stack-scatter bug next version, thealien 83.

Excellent. That was annoying as [censored].

Speaking of things that may need some fixing is the AI's timing of when to cast World Spells. Now obviously the AI will never have the same devious logic that a human player does, and that's all well and good. But it should, well, have some reasoning behind when it casts the spell. The Clan of Embers for example tend to, almost always, cast For the Horde within the first few rounds of any given game they are in. Which is quite useless since there are literally no orc barbarian units out there for them to take control of.

 

[Kael]

Excellent. That was annoying as [censored].

Speaking of things that may need some fixing is the AI's timing of when to cast World Spells. Now obviously the AI will never have the same devious logic that a human player does, and that's all well and good. But it should, well, have some reasoning behind when it casts the spell. The Clan of Embers for example tend to, almost always, cast For the Horde within the first few rounds of any given game they are in. Which is quite useless since there are literally no orc barbarian units out there for them to take control of.

Every single world spell has ai logic in place covering when it is cast. For the "For the Horde" spell its when the barbs have at least 60 units in the game. Thats not to say that we cant improve on the logic, but its there inn every case.

 

[sgerner]

Is anyone else having a problem downloading patch "f"?

 

[moonrunner]

The connection has timed out

The server at kael.civfanatics.net is taking too long to respond.

so unable to DL patch F

 

[loki1232]

Same with me.

 

[David Smith]

Same for me too, just errors out.

 

[thealien_83]

Every single world spell has ai logic in place covering when it is cast. For the "For the Horde" spell its when the barbs have at least 60 units in the game. Thats not to say that we cant improve on the logic, but its there inn every case.

That must not be working properly, then. Because in at the very least 50% of the games I've played in Shadow to date they've cast it literally within the first 10 turns, even the first handful a lot of the time. And there can't very well be many barbarian units to claim then, can there? I mean it does say orc barbarian units. Wouldn't there just be wild animals out there in the very first few turns? If even that?

I figured there was some kind of 'logic' meant to be in place, but it doesn't seem to be working for that spell, for what I've seen. Dunno.

 

[Ambreville]

Just thought of something... (sorry for cross-posting)

A bounty hunter would be a cool unit. Its job is to hunt down barbs and turn them back. You'd need dungeons at the very least, or perhaps Pillar of Chains for an extra bounty hunter bonus vs barbs. The bounty hunter function could be a promotion unlocked for units built in a city with both dungeons + courthouse (perhaps also could require Law mana).

 

[TPK]

Hello

Great mod, vanilla seems stale after playing FfH. Anyway:

I'm playing a Sheaim monarch game, my second serious Shadow game, and I've just had the armageddon in turn 339. OUCH! Point is, the AC seems re-eally sensitive, even though I'm not using the "last days" option. Twice now, razing a city with the Order in it has caused the clock to jump a whopping 13 points, first from 54 to 67, unleashing three riders in one turn, second from 87 to 100, which apparently shorted out Wrath somewhat, he entered the world alone. But it seems a little excessive that a single destructive rampage can cause the armageddon. Is this right?

Yours truly

 

[ichbinsehselber]

Reading a lot of criticism in the above posts, I would like to say that I like the way it is currently done, even though there is still room for improvement

I like to play good civs fighting against Ashen Veil and against the evil destroyers of the world.
When you play good civs you have got ways to fight the ashen veil, but of course you need to have a plan and it's implementation takes time.

Spoiler :

For instance I founded the order even though I had already all my cities as fellowship (playing Ljosafar) and spread the order getting an ashen veil CIV to change to the order. It was the Bannor by the way ;-)

Use Inquisitors when you got the tech, raise AV cities if inquisition is out of reach. If you have peace spread the order. There are even more options (not listing all, maybe I do not even know all)

In terms of improvements, I would like it much more, if CIVs like the Bannor are extremely unlikely to change to AV, making this either impossible or only possible under extreme conditions, like facing the choice of destruction or adopting the religion.
A matrix of religion-civ affinities would be nice in the code...

 

[loki1232]

A matrix of religion-civ affinities would be nice in the code...

this exists, it just isn't working or something atm. And it's true that if the AV is the first religion then they'll convert anyways, which isn't a good idea imo.