[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

1)Creation 3: Touch the Skys - Create a mountain peak? (The strategic use of this is unparalleled)

2)Law 2 : Rule of Law -Target city with in sight radius gains 10 Unhappyness for 10 turns.
Caster is rooted and cannot cast spells while in effect.
OR
3)Law 2 : Foundation of Law - Create a Strong Fort (Perhaps with a zone of control)

4)Law 3 : Prohibition - Target city within sight radius gains 20 Unhappyness for 20 turns.
Caster is rooted and cannot cast spells while in effect.
OR
5)Law 3 : Judgement - Change target civs Civics once (No anarchy, keep it normal so that it each civs civics can only be changed every few turns)

-El Scotto

Nice ideas. Of course, some comments:

1. I think it should go back to whatever it was after just a few turns. Otherwise you can surround your empire with mountains and be totally safe.

2. A bit drastic don't you think?

3. The problem is that this would be used instead of ever building forts. Why bother when you can get a strong fort?
I think a better thing would be a "Temporary Barricade" This gives all units in the tile a 5 turn defensive bonus.

4. See #2.

5. I love the name (judgement) but i think it could be done better. What if it gave a 50% chance that a targeted unit would be reduced to level 1 (and lose all promotions) and a 50% chance its XP would be doubled?

 

[loki1232]

You should create a new thread for v1.0 as this one is way to long. Also maybe (or ask someone else to do it) compile a list of all suggestions (so people don't ask for it over and over again).

I agree with this.

 

[loki1232]

Spirit Sphere
+1. Bless- Applies the Bless promotion on all non-Demonic units in the same tile until their next combat
2. Hope- When cast in a city it temporarily boosts culture output and happiness of that city
3. Enmity - Cast against another Civ leader, all other Civ’s have their rating for that leader reduced. Multiple Enmity spells don’t stack.

I thought you said that Spirit 3 would instead increasey your diplomacy rating relative to another leader.

 

[Kael]

I thought you said that Spirit 3 would instead increasey your diplomacy rating relative to another leader.

True dat. Sorry, didnt get the doc updated.

 

[Kael]

5. I love the name (judgement) but i think it could be done better. What if it gave a 50% chance that a targeted unit would be reduced to level 1 (and lose all promotions) and a 50% chance its XP would be doubled?

Thats a pretty funny idea, it would make for a cool spell. But Law is not random so it wouldn't fit there.

 

[loki1232]

New Promotion: Vampiric I, Vampiric II (Could also be called Life Steal)

Vampiric I
Restores XX% of dmg dealt.
Only works on attack.
Only works vs living beings (ie not elementals or golems)

Vampiric II
Restores XX% of dmg dealt.
Works on attack and defense. (Not sure how the defense one would balance - it would probably make the unit unstoppable by a horde of small units but elementals and golems could still counter)

New Promotion: Canibalize
Restores XXstr to unit = to target str.
Target unit is destroyed.

New Promotion: Vampire Slayer
+40% vs vampires.

New Promotion: Silver Weapons
+40% vs werewolves.

New Unit: Vampire (Tier 2), Vampire Elder (National Unit), Vampire Master (World Unit), Vampire Thrall.

Maybe something like

Vampire
4 str 1 mov
+25% vs living creatures
+50% vs animals (optional if you want to put a spin that the vampires are more "civilized")
Starts with Vampiric I, Canibalize
20% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class

Vampire Elder
8 str 1 mov
+50% vs living creatures
+75% vs animals
Starts with Vampiric I, Vampiric II, Canibalize
50% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class

Vampire Master
11 str 1 mov
+50% vs living creatures
+100% vs animals
Starts with Vampiric I, Vampiric II, Canibalize, Command (might overpower?)
75% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class
If the Vampire Master dies all other vampires die as well (not sure if this could be implemented or if it makes sense that you can create the other vampires before the master)

Vampire Thrall
2 str 2 mov
Can hurry production like a slave
If canibalized restores 2* str
Worker class

New Bonuses: to indicate that non organic units fare better against vampires
Golems
+25% vs vampires

Elementals
+50% vs vampires

Ah yes, Vampires. I like your ideas, but i think that you are mistaken in the idea of vampires getting strength bonuses from killing enemies. That would make them too powerful. Instead, everytime the level they should have the choice of using a body sphere spell that restores their health to full. Also, they should be really vulnerable to the sun sphere.

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

In the real game their are 10 ranks to each spell sphere, and quite a few spells that needed ranks in different spheres to be able to cast. I cut it down to 3 ranks of each sphere just because I thought that was more workable. It is definitly a foundation that can be built upon.

The diagram is used for a few things. For one each sphere (except the center Metamagic sphere) is opposed by the sphere on the opposite side of the diagram. So Sun is opposed by Shadow, Nature by Ice, etc. Also each of the gods represents a single sphere, giving the religion that worships him greater access to that spehere and minor access to surrounding spheres. So Junil is the god of law and worshipped by the Order, making them more powerful with law sphere spells and givening them some access to Sun, Metamagic, Mind and Spirit spheres. The secondary spheres are a looser relationship and may not always exist, depending on the religion. But it gives me a good baseline.

The planned civs are loosely based on the spheres, the armageddon spells are based on the civs. It underlies most of the design. As for units that are specific to the spheres, once the magic nodes are in I will have units that require a certain magic type to be created, so yes.

Also since the civs are based on the spheres they will have UU's available only to them. For example, the Calabim are the Body sphere civ. They are a civ of humans ruled by a vampire aristocracy. They will have Vampire UU's. I don't know if you would call that a sphere specific unit, but it works out the same.

Awesome - I figured youd had something massive in undertaking in mind. Ok, so decided to try to relate each of your units to one of your spheres, to see where holes existed if any, and where potentially one could add new units or what not. I came up with this:

Possible Sphere Unit Catagorization:

Units already in Game or modable:
The following would be available to all the civs during normal tree (not sphere) development

Scout
Apprentice (Though can upgrade to a sphere-specific apprentice)
Settler
Warrior
Archer
Axeman
Disciples (though my upgrade to sphere specifics)
Horseman
Chariot
Crossbowman
Horse Archer
Longbowman
Maceman
Inquisitor
Knight
Phalanx
Catapult
Galley
Rename Pikemen to Phalanx, Rename Phalanx to Spartiatoi (No pikemen graphics…please.)

The following are units could be placed in specific spheres of magic/technology.

Adepts – One type of adept per sphere of magic you wish to have adepts in – each specific adept would cast magics appropriate to that sphere as you stated.
Dwarves of all kinds – Perhaps the body/earth spheres depending on the dwarven unit(s).
Elves of all kinds – Perhaps the Nature/Creation Spheres depending on the unit(s).
Hunter – Spirit sphere – One with their surroundings (but not necessarily nature)
The Drown – Water/Enchanment spheres depending on unit(s)
Assassin – Shadow/Death Spheres depending on unit(s)
Conjurer – As adepts, any adept wishing to upgrade may only upgrade within the sphere chosen.
Crusader – I would have one for each of the religions (as your paramander etc, and one associated to an ideal Death, Life, Chaos and Law – each with appropriate thematic variants.
Mage – As adepts within specific spheres (perhaps less than the total number of spheres available – not all spheres get mages)
Paramander – See Crusader.
Priests – Keep within Spheres associated more closely to specific relgion (E.g. Priests of the Vale could be in the death, ice, law, spirit or shadow spheres depending).
Ranger – Spirit or Enchantment (depending on how you view them)
Stygian Guard – See crusader
Diseased Corpse – Death
Archmage – See Mage
Arquebus – Force/Mind (techonological advance is an inherently itritive process)
Beastmaster – Nature/Spirit (Depending)
Berserkers – Chaos/body (depending)
Camel Archer – Sun (cant think anything else)
Demon Summoner – Entropy/Death/Choas (or others)
Druid – Nature/creation
Eidolon – Death/Ice
Flurry – Enchantment/Nature (depending)
High Priest – See Priest
Immortal – Creation/Metamagic (depending)
Marksman – Mind/Enchant (Depending)
Monk – One of each – Body/Spirit/Shadow/Sun each wholey different from the other.
Paladin – See Priests
Sabateur – Shadow/Chaos (depending)
Shadow – Shadow (obvious?)
Sheildwall – Law/Body (Depending)
War Chariot – Chaos/Spirit (Depending)
War Elephant – Spirit/Chaos (Depending)
Cannon – Mind/Enchant (Depending)
Golems (Iron, Copper, Stone) – Earth/Creation (Depending, it also might be possible to create more for other spheres)
Caravel – Water
Pirate – Chaos/Water (Depending)
Galleon – Water/Air (depending, Air for sails ….)
Animals – Nature (including hawk, at some point perhaps one could MAKE animals – they’d pay no upkeep cost for them, they’d be weak but cheap to produce, and have a low % chance to go barbarian)
Skelitons – Death/Ice (depending)
Elementals – Summoned in appropriate spheres(water, fire, air, earth)
Typoid Mary – Entropy

As it stands, ignoring all animals and the religious based units (because I don’t know how you want to associate religions to your spheres) and assuming you pick the first of the options listed as (depending) you have the following number of units in each sphere:

All spheres have a minimum of 4 units each, because of the adept/conjurer/mage/archmage line.
Beyond that Each has the following number of additional units:
Air – 1, Body – 2, Chaos – 3, Creation – 1, Death – 3, Dimensional – 0,
Earth – 2, Enchantment – 1, Entropy – 2, Fire – 1, Force – 1, Ice – 0,
Law – 1, Life – 0, Metamagic – 0, Mind – 2, Nature – 3, Shadow – 4,
Spirit – 4, Sun – 2, Water – 4.

This assumes repition for things like “elementals” the “monks” and the like.

Based on the number above, it shouldn’t be too difficult to decide what you want to put where (if you think something needs moving) and if you want to add units (like many of the ones you’ve heard on this forum) you should be able to imput them into a sphere.

If this is similar to what you had in mind, lemme know, i might be able to come up with some fantastic elements to fit in where you feel there are holes left to be patched.

-El Scotto

 

[loki1232]

Thats a pretty funny idea, it would make for a cool spell. But Law is not random so it wouldn't fit there.

Yeah, I was just wondering about a "judging" spell.

What if it instead gave all order type units a 20% strength bonus, and made all chaos and veil types run away. Also, barbs would flee in fright. The strength bonus would be until they fought a battle against a normal unit, not one of the really evil guys mentioned above.
The spell would act in a 2 square radius.

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

Nice ideas. Of course, some comments:

1. I think it should go back to whatever it was after just a few turns. Otherwise you can surround your empire with mountains and be totally safe.

2. A bit drastic don't you think?

3. The problem is that this would be used instead of ever building forts. Why bother when you can get a strong fort?
I think a better thing would be a "Temporary Barricade" This gives all units in the tile a 5 turn defensive bonus.

4. See #2.

5. I love the name (judgement) but i think it could be done better. What if it gave a 50% chance that a targeted unit would be reduced to level 1 (and lose all promotions) and a 50% chance its XP would be doubled?

1. Yeah, thats a good point, - so maybe it kills the caster? And yeah it should be limited in duration.

2. So 5 unhappyness for 5 turns? THe idea here is that it doesnt do anything directly, just hurts the enemy, it doesnt kill units, it doesnt even harm production much, it just forces the target to adjust him/her/itself a bit.

3. I agree, but if its a particular sphere chosen, only those who chose that path could do it, id want excessive forts, but thats just me. I love your idea of temp barricades.

4. See 2 again.

5 Thats brilliant! Something to finally combat the huge levels.

- El Scotto

 

[loki1232]

New Unit: Giant Squid(Tier 2), Kraken (Tier 3), Leviathan (World Unit)

Giant Squid
3 str 3 mov
+25% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares (maybe too much? can you do invisible only if they are in sentry mode?)
Ship Class

Kraken
5 str 4 mov
+25% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares
Ship Class

Leviathian
11 str 3 mov (could up move but then nothing could run away)
+50% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares
Can create whirl pool (if this makes them unable to promote then up the mov)
Ship Class

Whirl Pool
4 str 3 mov
+100% vs ships
Can destroy fishing boats
Causes Collateral Damage

New Unit: Ancient Porpoise(Tier 2)

Ancient Porpoise
3 str 3 mov 3 Capacity
+1 mov in ocean squares
Transport Class

New Resource: Pearl, Kelp

Pearl
Found in water tiles
+1 Gold
+1 Happy with diver
Requires Pearl Diver: +1 hammer +3 gold

Kelp
Found in water tiles
+1 Food
+1 Health with Harvester
Requires Harvester: +3 Food +1 gold

New Resource: Crystal

Crystal
+1 Gold
+1 Happy with mine
Requires Mine: +1 hammer +5 gold
Make it required to build the summoning units like Conjurers and Demon Summoner. Mages/Arch mages would still use Reagents

Very nice ideas. They'll really spice up the water arena, at least once we get new models for them.
I like kelp and pearls very much, they improvments should be buildable with a work boat.

The crystal thing could be modified. Right now its basically the same as gold. I think instead it could give +1 health. Part of this is because health is much harder to get int he end game than happy faces.

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

Ah yes, Vampires. I like your ideas, but i think that you are mistaken in the idea of vampires getting strength bonuses from killing enemies. That would make them too powerful. Instead, everytime the level they should have the choice of using a body sphere spell that restores their health to full. Also, they should be really vulnerable to the sun sphere.

I completely agree.

 

[loki1232]

1. Yeah, thats a good point, - so maybe it kills the caster? And yeah it should be limited in duration.

2. So 5 unhappyness for 5 turns? THe idea here is that it doesnt do anything directly, just hurts the enemy, it doesnt kill units, it doesnt even harm production much, it just forces the target to adjust him/her/itself a bit.

1. I like killing the caster, and definetly limited duration.

2. I see what you mean, and i like the reduced version. However, I think it should also kill the caster.

4. See two.

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

1. I like killing the caster, and definetly limited duration.

2. I see what you mean, and i like the reduced version. However, I think it should also kill the caster.

4. See two.

2. Killing the caster to make a mountain makes sense (1), but not for he who judges a city from on far, instead, root him. IF they wanna get rid of him they have to go and get him. He should be fairly weak, that way he's stuck in one place for the duration and he's angering a population that wants him dead. This is even more limiting than killing the caster, because i might be able to produce another caster in less time than the duration of the spell, so its better if the number of the casters is limited and he's rooted.

4. See two again.

-El Scotto

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

Scenario:
City is impregnible.
Big bad Beasty with the scare ability comes over a Ridge.
Town rethinks its "impregnibility" and runs like hell, leaving town defensless.
Fair maiden journeys in, beast falls in love.
Beast and beauty head off into sunset together.
Later beast learns beauty fades, and beauty berates beast.
Lawsuit and divorce result.
Beast pays allamony and regrets ever taking that blasted city.
The End.

-El Scotto

Part 2:

Beligured with Boredom the Beast wanders aimlessly.
Beast goes to a bar, and wails over his woes.
Beast runs into x-beauty.
Beauty informs beast they have a baby boy.
Beast feels the burden of fatherhood.
Beast pays childsupport.
Beast wonders if the boy is a bastard.
To be continued...

-El Scotto

 

[loki1232]

2. Killing the caster to make a mountain makes sense (1), but not for he who judges a city from on far, instead, root him. IF they wanna get rid of him they have to go and get him. He should be fairly weak, that way he's stuck in one place for the duration and he's angering a population that wants him dead. This is even more limiting than killing the caster, because i might be able to produce another caster in less time than the duration of the spell, so its better if the number of the casters is limited and he's rooted.

4. See two again.

-El Scotto

2. I get it, but what if he is heavily defended then it will be nearly impossible to get rid of him, you know? He'll keep doing that forever. That's why i think he needs to die.
Or, maybe, him casting that spell will cause an army of barbarians to rise out of the ground, worried about having the law come after them.

4. Guess what to look at.

 

[loki1232]

Part 2:

Beligured with Boredom the Beast wanders aimlessly.
Beast goes to a bar, and wails over his woes.
Beast runs into x-beauty.
Beauty informs beast they have a baby boy.
Beast feels the burden of fatherhood.
Beast pays childsupport.
Beast wonders if the boy is a bastard.
To be continued...

-El Scotto

Both die in tragic blimp accident...

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

2. I get it, but what if he is heavily defended then it will be nearly impossible to get rid of him, you know? He'll keep doing that forever. That's why i think he needs to die.

Or, maybe, him casting that spell will cause an army of barbarians to rise out of the ground, worried about having the law come after them.

4. Guess what to look at.

I like the bit about the lawless barbarians being afraid the law is coming after them (it may find its way into my beauty/beast story).

2. Ok, so instead of dying (im not sure why im particularly partial to this mage, but anyway) he provides a negative defense modifier to units with him. The LAW STANDS ALONE. It'd be a pain to encircle him with 8 units, so its still fairly reasonable. And if he's THAT protected, that city is lost anyway.

4. Avoid looking in the direction of 2 if you can.

- El Scotto

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

Part 2:

Beligured with Boredom the Beast wanders aimlessly.
Beast goes to a bar, and wails over his woes.
Beast runs into x-beauty.
Beauty informs beast they have a baby boy.
Beast feels the burden of fatherhood.
Beast pays childsupport.
Beast wonders if the boy is a bastard.
To be continued...

-El Scotto

Part III:

Beast burns with anger over x-beauty.
Beast visits beauty in beverly hills.
Beauty is with new man who is "bonified".
Beast is angry, wishes to remarry beauty.
Beauty rebuffs beast, and berates beast again.
Beast leaves beauty and mr. bonified and returns to the wild.
To be continued.

-El Scotto

 

[loki1232]

I like the bit about the lawless barbarians being afraid the law is coming after them (it may find its way into my beauty/beast story).

2. Ok, so instead of dying (im not sure why im particularly partial to this mage, but anyway) he provides a negative defense modifier to units with him. The LAW STANDS ALONE. It'd be a pain to encircle him with 8 units, so its still fairly reasonable. And if he's THAT protected, that city is lost anyway.

4. Avoid looking in the direction of 2 if you can.

- El Scotto

2. This process of finding out what the spells should be is quite fun.

4. I failed to look at two, why don't you try it now?

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

2. This process of finding out what the spells should be is quite fun.

4. I failed to look at two, why don't you try it now?

2. I wholey agree, i wonder when/if Kael stopped paying attention, i know i lost my train of thought back at the station

4. This is not the 2 your looking for.

-El Scotto