[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[QuasiEvilScott]

OK so this is more than i ever could have hoped for..the magic referances and keeping things to 4-6 spheres was for simplicity and coding - this...this is much much much better. What little enthusiasim i did not share doth now pour out of me onto page.

Creation 3: Touch the Skys - Create a mountain peak? (The strategic use of this is unparalleled)

Law 2 : Rule of Law -Target city with in sight radius gains 10 Unhappyness for 10 turns.
Caster is rooted and cannot cast spells while in effect.
OR
Law 2 : Foundation of Law - Create a Strong Fort (Perhaps with a zone of control)

Law 3 : Prohibition - Target city within sight radius gains 20 Unhappyness for 20 turns.
Caster is rooted and cannot cast spells while in effect.
OR
Law 3 : Judgement - Change target civs Civics once (No anarchy, keep it normal so that it each civs civics can only be changed every few turns)

These spheres work very well with the Unique lands concept ive been pushing for *crosses fingers*.

Also, maybe Ice I should include a small defensive bonus, in case there are no fire enemies around.

-El Scotto

Continued:

Perhaps also create spheres dedicated to land types. But instead of MAGES that cast spells, you merely have units that do cool things on each - especially specific apprentices.

Hills Sphere:
Tier 1 or 2 - Highland Apprentice/Dwarf Apprentice (Highly defensive)
Tier ? - Hill Giants (Restricted to hills, uber melee)
Tier ? - Dwarves (Can build tunnels (Railroads) in Hills)
etc

Trees Sphere (jungle/woods):
Tier 1 or 2 - Forest Apprentice/Fairie Apprentice (Highly Mobile)
Tier ? - Forest Dryad (Restricted to Jungle/Woods, uber spellcaster)
Tier ? - Elves (Can Create Forests [as per usual])
etc

Tundra(Blight/Wasteland) Sphere:
Tier 1 or 2 - Blight Apprentice/Zombie/Drowned (Full combat unit)
Tier ? - Lich (Restricted to Blight/Wastelands, uber summoner)
Tier ? - Fallen Paladin (Can create Blight[Tundra])
etc

Arctic Sphere:
Tier 1 or 2 - Snow Apprentice/Viking Apprentice (Extremely Effecient - works faster)
Tier ? - The Frozen (Restricted to Ice, uber archer)
Tier ? - Ice Giant (Can create Ice)
etc

Desert Sphere:
Tier 1 or 2 - Sand Apprentice/Djinni Apprentice (Invisable)
Tier ? - Sand Worm (Restricted to Sand, uber mounted)
Tier ? - Salt Warriors (Can create desert)
etc

Flatlands (Plains/Grasslands) Sphere:
Tier 1 - Normal Apprentice
Tier ? - All normal units

I would expect that each unique land unit would have more than i provided here, but these are just rough guildline ideas. I do not want each land to simply have the "same unit" in "different skin" but that could be the rough skeliton before flushing them out. I see saltwarriors in terms of numbers to be powerful, wehre as really there only needs to be 1 or 2 Ice Giants for the same effect, for example. Each should be wholey different.

-El Scotto

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

You should create a new thread for v1.0 as this one is way to long. Also maybe (or ask someone else to do it) compile a list of all suggestions (so people don't ask for it over and over again).

Multiple threads are hard to look up for information, - and one COULD compile a list of suggestions, and just put it up, and constantly edit it. But i like the fact that its one long thread.

-El Scotto

 

[Chip56]

Kael what to you think of giving skeletons a "invoke fear" promotion.
Every time the fight enemy units they have a chance of causing panic in the lines of the defenders, which would weaken their strength 20% for one round.
Or maybe you could make so that after one round panic becomes weaker to fear (maybe -10%strength) and then the unit would have each round a 25% chance to become normal again.
Or you could make this a special of veil necromancer (everytime he wins a battle a zombie or other undead is created and the surving defenders would get nightmares from these battles and get a neg strength modifer unless they overcome their fear).

 

[Bestiano]

how would it be to introduce a new currency to tha game
mana that is
it would be aquired through nodes and by building a proper improvement you would mend it(like in master of magic). Thus some squares around the node(say.. 5 of them) would become magical(graphic could be that blue glow when a unit gains a level) and they would count as a resource. So all spellcasters would need mana

for example
you have 2 death nodes and they yield 10 mana points(resources) and 2 death resources

for a necromancer you would need a death resource and perhaps 2 mana.
Death resource would act as a regular resource(iron,copper...)
but mana would be different..
So having 10 mana you could only train 5 necromancers.
This of chourse is just an example, but the general idea(if possible to implement) would add a nice dimension in gameplay especially since this is a fantasy mod

This would be rather complicated for someone who doesen't read this thred or pedia enteryes, so informing players of this change of rules cold be done at the beginning while the game is being loaded.

 

[Kael]

how would it be to introduce a new currency to tha game
mana that is
it would be aquired through nodes and by building a proper improvement you would mend it(like in master of magic). Thus some squares around the node(say.. 5 of them) would become magical(graphic could be that blue glow when a unit gains a level) and they would count as a resource. So all spellcasters would need mana

for example
you have 2 death nodes and they yield 10 mana points(resources) and 2 death resources

for a necromancer you would need a death resource and perhaps 2 mana.
Death resource would act as a regular resource(iron,copper...)
but mana would be different..
So having 10 mana you could only train 5 necromancers.
This of chourse is just an example, but the general idea(if possible to implement) would add a nice dimension in gameplay especially since this is a fantasy mod

This would be rather complicated for someone who doesen't read this thred or pedia enteryes, so informing players of this change of rules cold be done at the beginning while the game is being loaded.

There are no plans to "unit" the civ leader like MoM did. Mana in that game really represented the leaders magical power so it wouldn't fit in a 4th age game. If a 1st age scenerio is developed (when the gods were down warring directly on the earth) something like this would make sense.

 

[Chalid]

Kael what to you think of giving skeletons a "invoke fear" promotion.
Every time the fight enemy units they have a chance of causing panic in the lines of the defenders, which would weaken their strength 20% for one round.
Or maybe you could make so that after one round panic becomes weaker to fear (maybe -10%strength) and then the unit would have each round a 25% chance to become normal again.

Fear could make the unit move in a random direction at the beginning of the next round. This should be doable as you can order (via python) units before player/AI gets control over them.

 

[Kael]

Kael what to you think of giving skeletons a "invoke fear" promotion.
Every time the fight enemy units they have a chance of causing panic in the lines of the defenders, which would weaken their strength 20% for one round.
Or maybe you could make so that after one round panic becomes weaker to fear (maybe -10%strength) and then the unit would have each round a 25% chance to become normal again.
Or you could make this a special of veil necromancer (everytime he wins a battle a zombie or other undead is created and the surving defenders would get nightmares from these battles and get a neg strength modifer unless they overcome their fear).

If a machanic like this is introduced I would probably want it to be a bigger impact (perhaps causing units to be uncontrollable. fleeing instead of following orders) and tied to a more powerful unit than a skeleton. Afterall, skeletons may be scary to us, but to a guy summoning demons, or a group of berserkers, its nothing. But I do like the idea and it would be cool to have a t4 or unique unit that caused other units to run away.

 

[Kael]

@QuasiEvilScott,

Im going through your spell ideas, give me some time to chew on it. There is a spell sphere diagram on the 2nd post of this thread you may want to check out. The spheres are pretty well locked in (there is a lot of background design that is tied to them) and I probably won't add spheres based on the terrain. But I don't mind having spells in the spheres that are terrain specific like winterberries.

 

[Kael]

Fear could make the unit move in a random direction at the beginning of the next round. This should be doable as you can order (via python) units before player/AI gets control over them.

You are just to fast for me Chalid.

 

[Chip56]

If a machanic like this is introduced I would probably want it to be a bigger impact (perhaps causing units to be uncontrollable. fleeing instead of following orders) and tied to a more powerful unit than a skeleton. Afterall, skeletons may be scary to us, but to a guy summoning demons, or a group of berserkers, its nothing. But I do like the idea and it would be cool to have a t4 or unique unit that caused other units to run away

Thats why I but the

Or you could make this a special of veil necromancer (everytime he wins a battle a zombie or other undead is created and the surving defenders would get nightmares from these battles and get a neg strength modifer unless they overcome their fear).

in.
Could be a special veil hero.

Fear could make the unit move in a random direction at the beginning of the next round. This should be doable as you can order (via python) units before player/AI gets control over them.

This would be almost a deat sentence in most cases.
->The army of stand before the gate.
->big evil guy attacks and kills one defender.
->rest of the fortified defenders run in panic out of the +105% defense city into plain grassland
-> city is easily captured and the army of defenders is killed almost without resistance.

Thats why I would prefer to have it only a neg strength modifer
unless you would give it to an armagedon unit
and its wouldsomthing like that:
75% chance to get feared -20% combat
5% chance if feared to run away
weaker untis have higher chances to get feared while strong units/veterans wouldnt be that likely to become feared

of course this are just some numbers i just came up and need to be balanced out

 

[Kael]

Thats why I but the in.
Could be a special veil hero.


This would be almost a deat sentence in most cases.
->The army of stand before the gate.
->big evil guy attacks and kills one defender.
->rest of the fortified defenders run in panic out of the +105% defense city into plain grassland
-> city is easily captured and the army of defenders is killed almost without resistance.

Thats why I would prefer to have it only a neg strength modifer
unless you would give it to an armagedon unit
and its wouldsomthing like that:
75% chance to get feared -20% combat
5% chance if feared to run away
weaker untis have higher chances to get feared while strong units/veterans wouldnt be that likely to become feared

of course this are just some numbers i just came up and need to be balanced out

There wouldn defintly need to be a check to keep units from evacuating cities.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Hi too all!
This is my first post in this forum. I have to thank you Kael for this wonderful mod. It steals my time for days now. However I discovered a problem with the new version. I don't know know if anyone already posted that because I didn't read all the messages.
At a certain point in the game the AI stops to build apprentices to upgrade the territory. Instead it upgrades any apprentice it has or gets to other units (mostly priest). That's bad cause the AI won't rebuild destroyed improvements caused by war with other civs and therefore stayes back in advancement very rapidly. Did anyone else discover that problem and is there a way to fix it?

 

[DCMage]

I couldn't duplicate your Command Post issue.

I will rewrite the Hanging gardens predia entry, i removed the aqueduct requirement but didn't update the entry.

And I added a ton of pedia entries in 0.90, but I know Im not done yet.

Hmm I can still build command posts without the required tech. I built the Form of Titan wonder which produces a Commander Great person (Fairly quickly), once hes produced you get the option to build a Command Post even thou it has a red description stating that something is missing to be able to build it, it is not greyed out and I am able to build them. Havnt done much more than that as it is early on in the game it been 1 of the first wonders/improvement available.

I am not sure what is what with the Form of Titan wonder thou, I can not always build it, even thou no other Civ has built it(Playing on 1 continent world get to meet all the civs)I have usualy copper & a unit with 6+ XP(usualy around 10-20) The wonder doesnt show, yet other times it be available to build, tis wierd.(I have a habit of starting lots of new games, playing for 100-200 turns to see the lay of the land, dont like I restart)

 

[kopaladin]

Wow, Hats off to you Kael and the rest of the bunch. This mod is amazing. More fun to me than the original civ4 which I love.

I've been playing this since .7 and it's good times. I like the fantasy feel. The werewolves in .9 are pretty neat, it got me thinking of some new creatures.

New Promotion: Vampiric I, Vampiric II (Could also be called Life Steal)

Vampiric I
Restores XX% of dmg dealt.
Only works on attack.
Only works vs living beings (ie not elementals or golems)

Vampiric II
Restores XX% of dmg dealt.
Works on attack and defense. (Not sure how the defense one would balance - it would probably make the unit unstoppable by a horde of small units but elementals and golems could still counter)

New Promotion: Canibalize
Restores XXstr to unit = to target str.
Target unit is destroyed.

New Promotion: Vampire Slayer
+40% vs vampires.

New Promotion: Silver Weapons
+40% vs werewolves.

New Unit: Vampire (Tier 2), Vampire Elder (National Unit), Vampire Master (World Unit), Vampire Thrall.

Maybe something like

Vampire
4 str 1 mov
+25% vs living creatures
+50% vs animals (optional if you want to put a spin that the vampires are more "civilized")
Starts with Vampiric I, Canibalize
20% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class

Vampire Elder
8 str 1 mov
+50% vs living creatures
+75% vs animals
Starts with Vampiric I, Vampiric II, Canibalize
50% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class

Vampire Master
11 str 1 mov
+50% vs living creatures
+100% vs animals
Starts with Vampiric I, Vampiric II, Canibalize, Command (might overpower?)
75% chance to create a vampire thrall
Melee Class
If the Vampire Master dies all other vampires die as well (not sure if this could be implemented or if it makes sense that you can create the other vampires before the master)

Vampire Thrall
2 str 2 mov
Can hurry production like a slave
If canibalized restores 2* str
Worker class

New Bonuses: to indicate that non organic units fare better against vampires
Golems
+25% vs vampires

Elementals
+50% vs vampires

New Unit: Giant Squid(Tier 2), Kraken (Tier 3), Leviathan (World Unit)

Giant Squid
3 str 3 mov
+25% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares (maybe too much? can you do invisible only if they are in sentry mode?)
Ship Class

Kraken
5 str 4 mov
+25% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares
Ship Class

Leviathian
11 str 3 mov (could up move but then nothing could run away)
+50% vs ocean squares
-25% vs coastal squares
Invisible in ocean squares
Can create whirl pool (if this makes them unable to promote then up the mov)
Ship Class

Whirl Pool
4 str 3 mov
+100% vs ships
Can destroy fishing boats
Causes Collateral Damage

New Unit: Ancient Porpoise(Tier 2)

Ancient Porpoise
3 str 3 mov 3 Capacity
+1 mov in ocean squares
Transport Class

New Resource: Pearl, Kelp

Pearl
Found in water tiles
+1 Gold
+1 Happy with diver
Requires Pearl Diver: +1 hammer +3 gold

Kelp
Found in water tiles
+1 Food
+1 Health with Harvester
Requires Harvester: +3 Food +1 gold

New Resource: Crystal

Crystal
+1 Gold
+1 Happy with mine
Requires Mine: +1 hammer +5 gold
Make it required to build the summoning units like Conjurers and Demon Summoner. Mages/Arch mages would still use Reagents

 

[Kael]

Hmm I can still build command posts without the required tech. I built the Form of Titan wonder which produces a Commander Great person (Fairly quickly), once hes produced you get the option to build a Command Post even thou it has a red description stating that something is missing to be able to build it, it is not greyed out and I am able to build them. Havnt done much more than that as it is early on in the game it been 1 of the first wonders/improvement available.

I am not sure what is what with the Form of Titan wonder thou, I can not always build it, even thou no other Civ has built it(Playing on 1 continent world get to meet all the civs)I have usualy copper & a unit with 6+ XP(usualy around 10-20) The wonder doesnt show, yet other times it be available to build, tis wierd.(I have a habit of starting lots of new games, playing for 100-200 turns to see the lay of the land, dont like I restart)

Ahhh... Yeah a Great Commander can force a command post even if you don't have the requirements. Civ's with the Organized trait can build Command Posts like normal buildings, I thought you meant they were getting it early. It soudns like it is working as intended.

You need to have a level 6 unit (i think its 6) to build Form of the Titan. Thats why it sometimes doesn't seem available to you.

 

[Kael]

Hi too all!
This is my first post in this forum. I have to thank you Kael for this wonderful mod. It steals my time for days now. However I discovered a problem with the new version. I don't know know if anyone already posted that because I didn't read all the messages.
At a certain point in the game the KI stops to build apprentices to upgrade the territory. Instead it upgrades any apprentice it has or gets to other units (mostly priest). That's bad cause the KI won't rebuild destroyed improvements caused by war with other civs and therefore stayes back in advancement very rapidly. Did anyone else discover that problem and is there a way to fix it?

You are the first person to mention that. It does make sense though. Hmm...

I'm not sure what Im going to do about that. I'll look into it.

 

[Kael]

I've been playing this since .7 and it's good times. I like the fantasy feel. The werewolves in .9 are pretty neat, it got me thinking of some new creatures.

etc etc

A lot of cool ideas here. Im adding a few to the idea list int he design doc. Notably the ability to be invisible only when in sentry mode (if I can get the AI to understand it) and spliting the resource for mages into 2 reosurces. I have never considered that. I will have to think about it. Keep the ideas coming!

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

@QuasiEvilScott,

Im going through your spell ideas, give me some time to chew on it. There is a spell sphere diagram on the 2nd post of this thread you may want to check out. The spheres are pretty well locked in (there is a lot of background design that is tied to them) and I probably won't add spheres based on the terrain. But I don't mind having spells in the spheres that are terrain specific like winterberries.

Wow, yeah i see that now, hadnt looked at it before, and I bask in its glory.

Are you against units being specific to the spheres? If not, you can simply import those unit ideas i had earlier into your existing spheres. If so, cool.

And i personally enjoy the comination of Python, Gathering, MoM, and D&D references that have gone into this. I particularly love discovering "Maniacal Designs" or whatever that spurs the Monty Python Quoting.

-El Scotto

EDIT: In your sphere diagram, where does one begin? Will all civs start in the middle? Or each from one of the extreams? I would also love if each sphere had depth of up to 5 (though honestly thats just tons of work).

 

[QuasiEvilScott]

Fear Promotion:

There wouldn defintly need to be a check to keep units from evacuating cities.

I dunno about that, whats better than this behemoth of a monster and the town guard flees? It could be just a one turn thing, allowing a quick capture of a city - OH definately exploited, but give this monster a weakness of some sort...perhaps some beautiful maid. Woe to the Beast that looks upon beauty fair.

Scenario:
City is impregnible.
Big bad Beasty with the scare ability comes over a Ridge.
Town rethinks its "impregnibility" and runs like hell, leaving town defensless.
Fair maiden journeys in, beast falls in love.
Beast and beauty head off into sunset together.
Later beast learns beauty fades, and beauty berates beast.
Lawsuit and divorce result.
Beast pays allamony and regrets ever taking that blasted city.
To be continued...

-El Scotto

 

[Kael]

Wow, yeah i see that now, hadnt looked at it before, and I bask in its glory.

Are you against units being specific to the spheres? If not, you can simply import those unit ideas i had earlier into your existing spheres. If so, cool.

And i personally enjoy the comination of Python, Gathering, MoM, and D&D references that have gone into this. I particularly love discovering "Maniacal Designs" or whatever that spurs the Monty Python Quoting.

-El Scotto

EDIT: In your sphere diagram, where does one begin? Will all civs start in the middle? Or each from one of the extreams? I would also love if each sphere had depth of up to 5 (though honestly thats just tons of work).

In the real game their are 10 ranks to each spell sphere, and quite a few spells that needed ranks in different spheres to be able to cast. I cut it down to 3 ranks of each sphere just because I thought that was more workable. It is definitly a foundation that can be built upon.

The diagram is used for a few things. For one each sphere (except the center Metamagic sphere) is opposed by the sphere on the opposite side of the diagram. So Sun is opposed by Shadow, Nature by Ice, etc. Also each of the gods represents a single sphere, giving the religion that worships him greater access to that spehere and minor access to surrounding spheres. So Junil is the god of law and worshipped by the Order, making them more powerful with law sphere spells and givening them some access to Sun, Metamagic, Mind and Spirit spheres. The secondary spheres are a looser relationship and may not always exist, depending on the religion. But it gives me a good baseline.

The planned civs are loosely based on the spheres, the armageddon spells are based on the civs. It underlies most of the design. As for units that are specific to the spheres, once the magic nodes are in I will have units that require a certain magic type to be created, so yes.

Also since the civs are based on the spheres they will have UU's available only to them. For example, the Calabim are the Body sphere civ. They are a civ of humans ruled by a vampire aristocracy. They will have Vampire UU's. I don't know if you would call that a sphere specific unit, but it works out the same.