[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[woodelf]

I played some games with the Adventurer great person and I think I will drop him. I will leave him in for playtesting to get woodelfs opinion but Im thinking hes a mistake.

The reason is that even though its just a unit or two the hero promotion is so cool that he overshadows your other troops. You have your hard working guys out earning xp and fighting for every level and this guy otudoes them all for nothing. With the heroes its not such a big deal but I can definitly see how to many heroes can make the normal units look really bland.

So the great person adventurer will probably go. He is to close to the heroes without having any flavor (and being as limited as the heroes are) and to close to the normal units that he makes look bad.

Jeez, no pressure at all.

Will you be Beta ready by Friday or sooner? Stuff can always be corrected or added on the go. I think my weekend has some wifey stuff, but since it's Winter most of it will be free.

 

[Kael]

Jeez, no pressure at all.

Will you be Beta ready by Friday or sooner? Stuff can always be corrected or added on the go. I think my weekend has some wifey stuff, but since it's Winter most of it will be free.

It should be Friday.

 

[Kael]

I now have a bug on mountain defence. It's minus 84745646 or something. Been playing all day, losing a few hunderd units and wondered why. Having a city on a hill in enemy teritory isn't that handy

Another one. When a city revolts and i let a religion deciple create their great work. The revolt is over

I checked this and it appears to be correct in the mod. I noticed that this variable is set in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GlobalDefines.xml. Thats not one of the files I replace in the mod so if you are seeing an unusual hills defense you may want to check that file on your system. The section where this is set is:

	<Define>
		<DefineName>HILLS_EXTRA_DEFENSE</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>25</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

 

[loki1232]

Hmm. An easy way to strengthen the priests and disciples (which i know you were looking for) would be to allow them to cast the appropriate spells.

 

[Chalid]

The Era is used in a few places, to use it for building views I would need to take it out everywhere else. The biggest hit I can think of is that players that like to start in different eras wouldn't get the appropriate tech for doing so. Since starting in classical, medieval or reinissaunce would all give the same set of techs (all of them).

I havent used the advanced starts yet so i dont know how big a drawback that would be, but it might. We could focus on special city-buildings for only 3 (veil, overlord, elfes) religions. That should leave enough Eras for all your technologies.

We will be better off to leave the era's as is but don't allow the eras to upgrade buildings. Then we can steal all the upgraded building art and use it for whatever we want, temples, armorers, bowyers, etc etc.

Im not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Check my graphics thread for an impression of what i am thinking of - and for an overlord temple of course.

EDIT: Do you have a flavour text for the Stigmata on the Unborn?

 

[Kael]

I havent used the advanced starts yet so i dont know how big a drawback that would be, but it might. We could focus on special city-buildings for only 3 (veil, overlord, elfes) religions. That should leave enough Eras for all your technologies.



Im not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Check my graphics thread for an impression of what i am thinking of - and for an overlord temple of course.

EDIT: Do you have a flavour text for the Stigmata on the Unborn?

I posted in your fantasy building thread, the temple is awesome but the ashen cities are just unbeliveable.

No, I don't have flavor text for Stigmata. Its more of a event that ovccured in the city than a building. The babies started being born with scars, pentagrams cut into their skin, horns, hooves and words carved in them in a demonic script.

Maybe a new skin on an obelisk could be used to signify it?

 

[JanusTalaiini]

Interesting bug-type-thingy I've been encountering: on two recent maps I've started played on, there was literally no iron or mithril anywhere. I'm using Haarbal's latest civ pack, and the maps were: a standard continents with 18 civs, and a tiny highland with 18 civs. Not sure if it's just a weird chance-thing that I won't be able to duplicate, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Kael]

Interesting bug-type-thingy I've been encountering: on two recent maps I've started played on, there was literally no iron or mithril anywhere. I'm using Haarbal's latest civ pack, and the maps were: a standard continents with 18 civs, and a tiny highland with 18 civs. Not sure if it's just a weird chance-thing that I won't be able to duplicate, but I thought I'd mention it.

The bonus rareity's have been redone from scratch in 0.90. Mostly because I switched to using an excel spreadsheet instead of editing the files directly. I will gen a few dozen maps and make sure the bonus placement looks good before I release 0.90.

 

[beeb]

Kael, love the mod, keep up the good work.

FWIW, I really don't like the idea of being able to use inquisitors on other civs--it's not like sabotage or espionage in that you can carry the mission out covertly. We're talking about the actual elimination of entire religions in a city and that's just not something that's going to happen without the blessing (so to speak) of the government. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Again, keep up the good work!

-beeb

P.S. (I even love the bugs, I laughed myself silly when I declared war on myself after building the nasty flaming guy. Maybe he should be renamed the Avatar of Self Loathing, or the Avatar of Schizophrenia or something)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Honestly now I don't remember what my idea was. Seriously. After loki's 2 cents and yours as well I think a mutated version of the Adventurer idea is the best, if possible within the engine. As they are Great People simply don't add anything to the feel on your mod. Sure it's nice to get free research points or cash from a merchant, but if you could have Adventurers created with the same system instead you could kill a couple of birds with one stone. If you generated Fame or Renown by building Wonders instead of Great People points then you could simulate drawing these lesser heroes to your civ.

I wasn't thinking of making them race specific per se. Simply reach 100 AP and you get Gar the Axeman. Or something like that. The only thing I see is that this will involve a lot of XML and potentially skinning work to individualize the Adventurers. You'll need names and stats and such. It might be too much work because over the course of a game you could get 80+ Adventurers with enough Wonders built by the AI. Personally I've never had more than 12 Great People, but you'd have to be prepared....

Why not generate FAME AND GREAT PEOPLE POINTS?

 

[Kael]

Kael, love the mod, keep up the good work.

FWIW, I really don't like the idea of being able to use inquisitors on other civs--it's not like sabotage or espionage in that you can carry the mission out covertly. We're talking about the actual elimination of entire religions in a city and that's just not something that's going to happen without the blessing (so to speak) of the government. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Again, keep up the good work!

-beeb

P.S. (I even love the bugs, I laughed myself silly when I declared war on myself after building the nasty flaming guy. Maybe he should be renamed the Avatar of Self Loathing, or the Avatar of Schizophrenia or something)

Would it make more sense if their was a 50% chance of the other civ declaring war on you for it, and a 5% chance if you both have the same state religion?

 

[Kael]

Kael, love the mod, keep up the good work.

FWIW, I really don't like the idea of being able to use inquisitors on other civs--it's not like sabotage or espionage in that you can carry the mission out covertly. We're talking about the actual elimination of entire religions in a city and that's just not something that's going to happen without the blessing (so to speak) of the government. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Again, keep up the good work!

-beeb

P.S. (I even love the bugs, I laughed myself silly when I declared war on myself after building the nasty flaming guy. Maybe he should be renamed the Avatar of Self Loathing, or the Avatar of Schizophrenia or something)

Just did code review for this. Its actually not possible with the way I've implemented it to do the sort of checks I've talked about. In fact if you send an inquisitor to a rivals city and inquisition it, it will remove all religions except HIS state religion, not yours. In Inquisition is defined by the city (and its owners) not the inquisitor. This is because by the time the event kicks the inquisitor is already gone and the building has been created.

So for now I will just keep the inquisitor from being able to do it to your opponents cities. When I get the ability to allow units to cast spells and level I will switch this to a spell and I will have more flexibility with it.

 

[BlakTooth]

Here's a bug:

If you do a renaissance start, the barbarians make lots of varied units, including golems. However, these barbarians golems have some problems:

1) They still have their shields (instead of dropping them like the player's golems).
2) They're considered animals (i.e. Animal Handling owns them)

I'm not sure if this is just for barbarian golems, or if there are other barbarians that also do the same thing.

Keep up the good work Kael.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I played some games with the Adventurer great person and I think I will drop him. I will leave him in for playtesting to get woodelfs opinion but Im thinking hes a mistake.

The reason is that even though its just a unit or two the hero promotion is so cool that he overshadows your other troops. You have your hard working guys out earning xp and fighting for every level and this guy otudoes them all for nothing. With the heroes its not such a big deal but I can definitly see how to many heroes can make the normal units look really bland.

So the great person adventurer will probably go. He is to close to the heroes without having any flavor (and being as limited as the heroes are) and to close to the normal units that he makes look bad.

Can you changethe Hero promotion to work like this:

When the Hero attacks and kills and opponent, the ammount of Exp. gained is 50% more than normal.

i think this would make heros more fun.

 

[Kael]

Here's a bug:

If you do a renaissance start, the barbarians make lots of varied units, including golems. However, these barbarians golems have some problems:

1) They still have their shields (instead of dropping them like the player's golems).
2) They're considered animals (i.e. Animal Handling owns them)

I'm not sure if this is just for barbarian golems, or if there are other barbarians that also do the same thing.

Keep up the good work Kael.

Yeah, all golems are trapable by animal handling in 0.80. It will be fixed in 0.90.

I didnt take the shields away from all golems. You probably saw a stone golem, I think i left them with their shields.

 

[Kavok]

Kael are Reagents supposed to be extremely rare?

I'm playing contienents/huge and the map only has THREE reagents in the entire world.

It's interseting in that it means only three civilizations are magically enlightend but its not so great for the player. XD

Can't build priests/mages/archmages without it.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Kael are Reagents supposed to be extremely rare?

I'm playing contienents/huge and the map only has THREE reagents in the entire world.

It's interseting in that it means only three civilizations are magically enlightend but its not so great for the player. XD

Can't build priests/mages/archmages without it.

Go take those reagents then. I like the idea of strategic rare resources (would like to see more in FFH)...sort of like Oil you know, a few wars have been fought over that one.

I mean, if you really don't want war with another civ over a resource, you can always add it in yourself through the WB.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

am i invisible or something?? *looks at other expectantly*

 

[Chalid]

I posted in your fantasy building thread, the temple is awesome but the ashen cities are just unbeliveable.

I read your comment. I will investigate further into ths era thing this weekand and i have come to suspect that it will be actually possible to add additional eras. This would solve the problems and give not only these cool cities, but some additional possibilities, like some further religion dependend adjustments, religion depended units when draftig, and possibly different religion dependend skins for some buildings and - more important - for some units like knights or so. I hope to be able to give a full report on this theme on sunday.

No, I don't have flavor text for Stigmata. Its more of a event that ovccured in the city than a building. The babies started being born with scars, pentagrams cut into their skin, horns, hooves and words carved in them in a demonic script.

Maybe a new skin on an obelisk could be used to signify it?

Oh, ok will be done this weekend together with some more buildings i already have in my head.

 

[Silica_Pathways]

am i invisible or something?? *looks at other expectantly*

Hey, look guys, an empty post, an empty avatar and no nickname