[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Jono]

Yea half the prod on the commander would be fair... btw, could you give me a tip on where to start for collateral damage vs certain unit class in python? I know this must be irritating, I'm just obsessed "/

 

[Pfeffersack]

(...) I think they are different enough to justify 2 units. What do you think? Think I should give the commander half the fisnish building rush ability of an engineer?

You could also restrict him to only rushing national wonders or ones with military purposes.

 

[Tesla23]

@Mordeth13
Yeah, you can´t use your older savegames in newer versions. Perhaps you could set the gamespeed on fast or start in one of the later areas. This might help you to finish your game before the update is available.

 

[loki1232]

The revised navy sounds awesome

I wasn't sure what you meant by fast ships, but if they work like that then definately, maybe a national wonder could be required to build one the highest, or second highest type of ship, so that they couldn't be mass-produced, and having a national unit ship would definately be awesome, but remember, since this is civ4, navies at least in vanilla aren't as big, so limiting to 1 national ship would be a real limit, 2-3 national units isn't a real cap where navies are concerned

also it'd be neat if catapult ships, or the ramming/exploding ships, did collateral damage, some naval unit should, there much too much naval stacking in plain vanilla

-stalinbulldog

Yeah. I like having to build a limited number of shipyards for the units. I think that flagships would have a limt of one, then the capital ships would have a limit of one allowed per shipyard. At most, 3 shipyards would be allowed, but religion or quests would add the possibility of more. Small capital ships would have the limit of twice whatever capital ships were. Then, the limit of spellcasters would be somehow religion based, maybe number of towers?
I was thinking of the small ships to actually be "fleets" of small ships. They would be very hard to kill, but not expecially strong.

Collateral damage is a given for those ships.

 

[loki1232]

You could also restrict him to only rushing national wonders or ones with military purposes.

Woah. Why don't you just make it so that they can only rush units. This is very different from the GE.

 

[Jono]

not different enough... you could just settle for GE for rushing, I mean if you're going to rush why use a perfectly good commander?

 

[loki1232]

not different enough... you could just settle for GE for rushing, I mean if you're going to rush why use a perfectly good commander?

Ah, but the GE can only rush buldings, and very much.

 

[Jono]

Well what I was trying to say is that you get one of them and if you're going to use it for +prod you might aswell get a GE...

 

[Kael]

Kael, I was just wondering. is there anything in the game setting that explains why the octopus overlords focus on culture? seems kind of weird

The Overlords have the worst spread rate, meaning people don't often willingly subjugate themselves to the will of the overlords. But when they do get into a city they are very dominant. And thats what the high culture is supposed to represent. Their borders expand quicker and they are more resistent to cultural flips.

 

[kevjm]

Is a revised plan scheduled for phase 1? Would it be worth pushing back the schedule by a week if it's not? All you'd need to spice it up would be a couple of skins and changing the ship's abilities using technologies (although I say that knowing nothing about python or modding...)

Edit: Slap me if I'm out of line here

 

[Kael]

Okay, I know it's a purely defensive unit and that it's tier 4 and all that, but still I think the Shield Wall is a bit too powerful when it comes to city defense. Even if the unit can't be given the City Garrison promotion it serves this purpose all too well. Even using two heroes, several tier 4 units, 4-8 experienced macemen and cannons / catapults to take down the city defenses the Shield Wall is till a nasty unit to face when laying siege to a city. If an opponent has three cities with three shield walls in each taking him down will wear down your armies and make further conquest slow. Of course there is nothing wrong with a tier 4 defensive unit, but it really doesn't fit the unit description all too well, since it is stated that it is "not so good" for defending cities, but great for defending armies during march. This is just my opinion, but it really dampens the conquest / domination aspect of the game.

In addition there should be more barbarian units like Orthus. He is really nice for flavour and atmosphere in the game.

The Shield Wall is a national unit so each civ is limited to a max of 3 of them, so if they had 3 in a city that would be it for their entire country (and a good time to go hit other cities).

But I have changed the shield wall for 0.90. In 0.90 the shield walls strength has been reduced from 16 to 12 and he has been given the Defensive promotion (+50% defence, -50% Attack) and he is now allowed to attack. I will be interested to see how this change effects the use of shield walls.

 

[Kael]

Well what I was trying to say is that you get one of them and if you're going to use it for +prod you might aswell get a GE...

Sure, but under that logic if you are using a Great Artist for a tech you might as well get a Great Engineer. I don't mind them having duplicate abilities, all of the Great People currently do. The Great Commander just gives a different set of options than the rest. Having 2 of his 3 abilities be unique seems good enough (and is the model the rest follow).

 

[Corlindale]

I will be interested to see how this change effects the use of shield walls.

Hmm. I don't think it will change their use that much. They'll still be completely unfit as attackers, and even stronger as defenders.

I think I found another bug. When I'd researched the entire tech-tree(I know, I need a life...), and the tech menu stopped appearing, I'd still be researching, only now I'd be getting the religion-restricted techs. I got Dwarven Mining, Divination and Mind Stapling this way, they weren't displayed as being researched, but I just got them as if they'd been. Then I looked at the tech-tree, and found I could also research Necromancy(I had Fellowship as my SR).
Perhaps some kind of "future tech" could be added to prevent this, if only as a placeholder until you do the next Age?

 

[Jono]

Sure, but under that logic if you are using a Great Artist for a tech you might as well get a Great Engineer. I don't mind them having duplicate abilities, all of the Great People currently do. The Great Commander just gives a different set of options than the rest. Having 2 of his 3 abilities be unique seems good enough (and is the model the rest follow).

Not really, the techs vary between the GPs, specialists have different bonuses and well every other GP has a special ability, but the GE special ability won't be unique anymore if you make commanders... Maybe giving commanders the ability to promote a unit with some unique promotion (instead of rushing prod) like collateral damage while attacking out of forests (or into, whatever's easier to do), invisible in forests, maybe even able to build a trap in the woods, like a woodsman III...

 

[loki1232]

I think I found another bug. When I'd researched the entire tech-tree(I know, I need a life...), and the tech menu stopped appearing, I'd still be researching, only now I'd be getting the religion-restricted techs. I got Dwarven Mining, Divination and Mind Stapling this way, they weren't displayed as being researched, but I just got them as if they'd been. Then I looked at the tech-tree, and found I could also research Necromancy(I had Fellowship as my SR).
Perhaps some kind of "future tech" could be added to prevent this, if only as a placeholder until you do the next Age?

Yes, I had the exact same thing happen to me, but I was OO and go the other religion's special techs. I didn't check to see if they gave me the bonuses though.

 

[kevjm]

Kael, you should put this mod on your CV

 

[Jono]

How about letting the fellowship build cities without removing forests (if possible)?

 

[Kael]

Is a revised plan scheduled for phase 1? Would it be worth pushing back the schedule by a week if it's not? All you'd need to spice it up would be a couple of skins and changing the ship's abilities using technologies (although I say that knowing nothing about python or modding...)

Edit: Slap me if I'm out of line here

The ideas you guy have been discussing for the naval units are awesome, but I wouldn't be able to fully implement them in Phase 1. I will probably grab a few ideas. Right now Im thinking the "Arcane Barge" (fireballing ship), and a "Queen of the Line" (late game carrys a lot of units) for inclusion in 1.0. Then I will look at some more speciality ships for phase 2, I especially like the ideas of the flagship and a light "mithril" ship that you guys talked about.

Thats my thoughts right now, all plans are subject to change. I stayed out of most of the ship discussion, not because I wasn't interested, but because Loki usually had already said everything I was thinking.

 

[Kael]

Kael, you should put this mod on your CV

Whats a CV?

 

[Kael]

How about letting the fellowship build cities without removing forests (if possible)?

The fellowship is just a religion, not a race.

Something similiar to this will be used for the Elven civs in phase 2. They will be able to build improvements on forest and jungle tiles without removing the forest or jungle. They are actually unable to remove the forest or jungle.

But I don't know a way to do the same thing for a city, so cities will probably still destroy the forest.