[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

I was suppossed to have more free time but since my classes have ended I find myself spending much more time at work. Duh.

I've played as the OO and built Hamah only to find that he's only special ability is to run away... Which I never found any use for. He has only one move and can cast one fireball which makes him rather useless (if he would fight Saverous, which I had at the time as well, he would have hell beaten out of himself, unfortunately). I'm not sure is Kael as weak as Hemah is, but if that's the case I'd suggest adding them extra movement point and some other bonuses, since Hemah stands no chance against an ordinary Archmage (well, he can always run away, but that's not the point).

Hemah's fireballs go 2 tiles farther than a normal mages, giving him the best range in the game. Also his ability to run home is helpful to escape, but don't overlook the value of being able to use it just to get around quickly.

 

[Jono]

Is it possible to make a promotion unique (like Orthus' Axe but given by a GP like the religion wonders are given by great prophets)?

 

[Kael]

Is it possible to make a promotion unique (like Orthus' Axe but given by a GP like the religion wonders are given by great prophets)?

Yes. The hard part is that there is no method for selecting a single unit (probably doable, but I haven't played with it yet). Which is why a priest blesses very unit in his tile, an Adept hastes every unit in his tile and Bambur upgrades the weapons of every unit in his tile.

 

[Maarak]

Speaking of the Orthus Axe, would it be possible for the promotion to move from unit to unit indefinately?

To clarify: Unit X kills Orthus and gets the Axe. Sometime later Unit Y kills Unit X , giving Unit Y the Axe. Unit Y is killed by Unit Z... etc...

would this be possible to impliment?

 

[Jono]

Speaking of the Orthus Axe, would it be possible for the promotion to move from unit to unit indefinately?

To clarify: Unit X kills Orthus and gets the Axe. Sometime later Unit Y kills Unit X , giving Unit Y the Axe. Unit Y is killed by Unit Z... etc...

would this be possible to impliment?

I think it already works like that... But maybe you could impliment an option that would allow to pass the axe on to a friendly unit, like Unit X kills Orthus and gets the axe, Unit X passes axe onto Hero X once built. I also have an idea how to do this, you could give every unit 1 slot for weapons (then you could give every unit some kind of weapon capturing promotion, maybe given by training yard).

 

[Zuul]

It's already in, isn't it? The axe moving from unit to unit.
Some magical armour and more such things would be nice.

 

[Maarak]

oops, didn't realize it already worked like that. I never seem to be the one that kills Orthus in my games, so I've never had/lost the axe

 

[Jono]

oops, didn't realize it already worked like that. I never seem to be the one that kills Orthus in my games, so I've never had/lost the axe

I usually leave Orthus for the AI so I can get it for my heroes...

 

[Kael]

It's already in, isn't it? The axe moving from unit to unit.
Some magical armour and more such things would be nice.

More are coming, mostly as quest rewards in phase 2. Orthus's axe was really just a test to see if having equipment in the game would be fun.

 

[Jono]

More are coming, mostly as quest rewards in phase 2. Orthus's axe was really just a test to see if having equipment in the game would be fun.

Use my theory (see Post #2105)... 1 slot for weapons another for armour, maybe a shield aswell... Of course I have no idea how you would make them add abilities to the units though...

 

[loki1232]

I just looked at Zuul's promotions mod. I really think that in phase one you should incorporate some of it.

 

[Kael]

I just looked at Zuul's promotions mod. I really think that in phase one you should incorporate some of it.

He has definitly done some cool stuff. What in particular did you like?

 

[loki1232]

Use my theory (see Post #2105)... 1 slot for weapons another for armour, maybe a shield aswell... Of course I have no idea how you would make them add abilities to the units though...

That is great. Archers all get different bows. Maybe this could be instead of having those annoying building prereqs. You could build archers plain, but all except the weakest bows for them would be auto-produced by the archery range, and you could distribute them among your hordes of archers.

 

[loki1232]

He has definitly done some cool stuff. What in particular did you like?

Many things.

1.Desert Combat, Arctic Combat, Fieldsman
these terrain types need some bonuses too.

2. Attack I, Attack II, Attack III, Attack IV, Defence I, Defence II, Defence III, Defence IV

A very interesting concept and should be included at least in some form. Maybe in ship combat, to make it more interesting.

3. Light, Heavy, Berzerker, Stalwart
These traits are almost a way of having two unit types. I notice we already have stalwart and berserker, but light and heavy be add some spice. Also, what if every unit had a promotion based on the religion in the city that built. They would be, light and dark. They would get minimal bonuses/weaknesses when fighting in terrain squares of those alignments. Also, if you switched to a religion on the other side of the spectrum, they would get large penalties. The fellowship would not have this problem/advantage.

4. Exceptional, Extraordinary, Hero, Legendary Hero, Avatar
very similar to the want for heros already in FFH. I think that maybe a new hero system could be based on these promotions. Each civ (of the right religion) to research the tech needed for a hero gets the message: Hero X is now available. Now, whenever a unit of the type of the hero kills an enemy, it has a fifty percent chance of becoming "exceptional". Then it has a twenty-five percent chance of becoming "Extraordinary" the next time it kills an enemy. Then, it has a ten percent chance of becoming "Heroic". Once any unit becomes heroic the advancement towards that hero stops. The heroic unit is renamed, and gets large bonuses. NB: killing barbs/animals doesn't count towards the heroic status chances.

5. # Effects gained in Forts
a very nice idea. Maybe elves could get something like these for woods? Dwarves for hills? And of course the fort bonuses themselves should be included. This could make defense possible.

6. # Effects gained by stacks
Finally, a bonus for stacking units. Definitely a winner.

7. #Too many units in same tile will made it crowded. Over 15 will add the crowded effect.
Finally, a penalty for stacking units. Definitely a winner.

 

[Kael]

Many things.

1.Desert Combat, Arctic Combat, Fieldsman
these terrain types need some bonuses too.

Yeah those could be cool.

2. Attack I, Attack II, Attack III, Attack IV, Defence I, Defence II, Defence III, Defence IV

A very interesting concept and should be included at least in some form. Maybe in ship combat, to make it more interesting.

3. Light, Heavy, Berzerker, Stalwart
These traits are almost a way of having two unit types. I notice we already have stalwart and berserker, but light and heavy be add some spice. Also, what if every unit had a promotion based on the religion in the city that built. They would be, light and dark. They would get minimal bonuses/weaknesses when fighting in terrain squares of those alignments. Also, if you switched to a religion on the other side of the spectrum, they would get large penalties. The fellowship would not have this problem/advantage.

Offense and Defense promotions are already in, but not in varying strengths like Zuul has done. The light and heavy is a brillant idea, but it just strikes me as more of a tech heavy flavor sort of promotion, not a fantasy one.

4. Exceptional, Extraordinary, Hero, Legendary Hero, Avatar
very similar to the want for heros already in FFH. I think that maybe a new hero system could be based on these promotions. Each civ (of the right religion) to research the tech needed for a hero gets the message: Hero X is now available. Now, whenever a unit of the type of the hero kills an enemy, it has a fifty percent chance of becoming "exceptional". Then it has a twenty-five percent chance of becoming "Extraordinary" the next time it kills an enemy. Then, it has a ten percent chance of becoming "Heroic". Once any unit becomes heroic the advancement towards that hero stops. The heroic unit is renamed, and gets large bonuses. NB: killing barbs/animals doesn't count towards the heroic status chances.

I would like heroes to be specific individuals instead of normal units with big promotions. Part of what sets htem apart, unique art, a backstory, etc.

5. # Effects gained in Forts
a very nice idea. Maybe elves could get something like these for woods? Dwarves for hills? And of course the fort bonuses themselves should be included. This could make defense possible.

6. # Effects gained by stacks
Finally, a bonus for stacking units. Definitely a winner.

7. #Too many units in same tile will made it crowded. Over 15 will add the crowded effect.
Finally, a penalty for stacking units. Definitely a winner.

The problem with these three is that the AI doesn't use them. It isn't aware of the benefit of mixing units in a stack, or the penalty of having to many. If it gets the bonus its just coincidence, giving a pretty big advantage to the player.

 

[loki1232]

Offense and Defense promotions are already in, but not in varying strengths like Zuul has done. The light and heavy is a brillant idea, but it just strikes me as more of a tech heavy flavor sort of promotion, not a fantasy one.

I think that having light and dark units would make it more interesting, especially if you can get the anims to change slightly.

I would like heroes to be specific individuals instead of normal units with big promotions. Part of what sets htem apart, unique art, a backstory, etc.

I just think that with my idea it allows any of your appropriate units to become the hero, which is a kinda cool idea. Instead of building a hero, it is getting one in a time of need. Once he got the heroic promotion though, he wouldn't be just a normal unit anymore. Instead, he would be replaced by the heo unit (with the FfH heroic promotion). Maybe he would get the light/dark trait as well. This would just be a more interesting way of getting the heros.

The problem with these three is that the AI doesn't use them. It isn't aware of the benefit of mixing units in a stack, or the penalty of having to many. If it gets the bonus its just coincidence, giving a pretty big advantage to the player.

Aw, really? its such a nice idea.

 

[TheNewSaint]

I'm not quite sure (going back to equipment), but are you saying that you build a "Peasant" or "Apprentice" or whatever, but then you can upgrade it by giving a weapon/armor/magic promotion that can be gotten only from the city, and that you can change the unit by giving it an overwriting promotion? Or is it that you build the unit, say an archer, with the archer promotion, and can be given other promotions, like the pike, to become something different, but at a penalty because it's not properly trained? Or niether. Or maybe some of both. Or do you not want to explain it because you havent fully worked it out or something? Or am I just wasting more space in this thread by continually asking you a neverending river of questions that you have answered already? ... Oh, and I have a second paragraph (dont worry, there aren't nearly as many questions, just suggestions)

Some special units for civs/religions (some when used together)

Say you are doing 20 civs. Say that each one has a major leaning religion, and a minor one. It gets huge bonuses/special units for the major one, and smaller bonuses but the generic units for the minor.

Major Religion: Veil

Civ 1: Minor-Runes (evil dwarf worshippers)
Civ 2: Minor-Leaves (dark elf worshippers)
Civ 3: Minor-Overlords (naga/sea demons)
Civ 4: Minor-Viel (this civ has the most powerful Viel spell (raise dead))

Major Religion: Kilmorph

Civ 5: Minor-Veil (evil dwarf, but more dwarf)
Civ 6: Minor-Leaves ("Ancients" worshippers, follow the old testament types, like myself. Sort of Tibetan atmosphere though, do not reject other new religions, but dont believe them either. I see them as, peaceful followers of an old religion that the rest of the world forgot)
Civ 7: Minor-Runes (these get the biggest bonus, but do not cope well with other religions.
Civ 8: Minor-Order (i know you have one for this, it's got a hero and all....)

Major Religion: Leaves

Civ 9: Minor-Veil (dark elves, or maybe Satyrs....)
Civ 10: Minor-Runes ("Ancients")
Civ 11: Minor-Ordler ("These share some of the beliefs of the order, but mostly the Fellowship
Civ 12: Minor-None (open to all religions, but not getting the great bonuses, or maybe not units, or whatever. Neutral)

Major Religion: Order

Civ 13: Minor Elves
Civ 14: Minor Dwarf
Civ 15: Minor None
Civ 16: Minor Order

Major Religion: Overlords

Civ 17 Minor Leaves-all units get elfslaying promotion to start, and certain spells more effective on leaves. Also, for flavor, slaves are elves and have elf abilities.
Civ 18 Minor Runes-same as leaves, but for dwarves (both are considered to be barbarians for their practice in worship)
Civ 19 Minor Veil-Seademons
Civ 20 Minor Order-Has powerful spell that allows for the coversion of an enemy or friendly non-capital city (planting seeds in governers minds, etc.) without war. Would have to be limited or something, perhaps requiring powerful reagents... or a spy/demon to mind staple/possess the powerful leader...?

Anyway, for civs 1, 2, & 3, I'm thinking vampires, werewolves, and "Unrest"
You could build on this, or not (i am not a huge fan of completeness either. IMO, if you play one way with all the civs, you should only win with one. Each civ should allow, if not force, a different style of gameplay.)

Just thought I'd throw this out there, while I'm working on my other ideas...

The New Saint
He's Back

 

[Kael]

I'm not quite sure (going back to equipment), but are you saying that you build a "Peasant" or "Apprentice" or whatever, but then you can upgrade it by giving a weapon/armor/magic promotion that can be gotten only from the city, and that you can change the unit by giving it an overwriting promotion? Or is it that you build the unit, say an archer, with the archer promotion, and can be given other promotions, like the pike, to become something different, but at a penalty because it's not properly trained? Or niether. Or maybe some of both. Or do you not want to explain it because you havent fully worked it out or something? Or am I just wasting more space in this thread by continually asking you a neverending river of questions that you have answered already? ... Oh, and I have a second paragraph (dont worry, there aren't nearly as many questions, just suggestions)

Some special units for civs/religions (some when used together)

Say you are doing 20 civs. Say that each one has a major leaning religion, and a minor one. It gets huge bonuses/special units for the major one, and smaller bonuses but the generic units for the minor.

Major Religion: Veil

Civ 1: Minor-Runes (evil dwarf worshippers)
Civ 2: Minor-Leaves (dark elf worshippers)
Civ 3: Minor-Overlords (naga/sea demons)
Civ 4: Minor-Viel (this civ has the most powerful Viel spell (raise dead))

Major Religion: Kilmorph

Civ 5: Minor-Veil (evil dwarf, but more dwarf)
Civ 6: Minor-Leaves ("Ancients" worshippers, follow the old testament types, like myself. Sort of Tibetan atmosphere though, do not reject other new religions, but dont believe them either. I see them as, peaceful followers of an old religion that the rest of the world forgot)
Civ 7: Minor-Runes (these get the biggest bonus, but do not cope well with other religions.
Civ 8: Minor-Order (i know you have one for this, it's got a hero and all....)

Major Religion: Leaves

Civ 9: Minor-Veil (dark elves, or maybe Satyrs....)
Civ 10: Minor-Runes ("Ancients")
Civ 11: Minor-Ordler ("These share some of the beliefs of the order, but mostly the Fellowship
Civ 12: Minor-None (open to all religions, but not getting the great bonuses, or maybe not units, or whatever. Neutral)

Major Religion: Order

Civ 13: Minor Elves
Civ 14: Minor Dwarf
Civ 15: Minor None
Civ 16: Minor Order

Major Religion: Overlords

Civ 17 Minor Leaves-all units get elfslaying promotion to start, and certain spells more effective on leaves. Also, for flavor, slaves are elves and have elf abilities.
Civ 18 Minor Runes-same as leaves, but for dwarves (both are considered to be barbarians for their practice in worship)
Civ 19 Minor Veil-Seademons
Civ 20 Minor Order-Has powerful spell that allows for the coversion of an enemy or friendly non-capital city (planting seeds in governers minds, etc.) without war. Would have to be limited or something, perhaps requiring powerful reagents... or a spy/demon to mind staple/possess the powerful leader...?

Anyway, for civs 1, 2, & 3, I'm thinking vampires, werewolves, and "Unrest"
You could build on this, or not (i am not a huge fan of completeness either. IMO, if you play one way with all the civs, you should only win with one. Each civ should allow, if not force, a different style of gameplay.)

Just thought I'd throw this out there, while I'm working on my other ideas...

The New Saint
He's Back

Heya man, good to see you back. Equipment will probably come mostly from quests. For example, the first 3 players to explore an ancient temple could spawn a 'Shard of the Godslayer'. The shard is represented by a courier who carries it, a 0 combat unit that is caputurable. If any player gets all 3 of the shards in a city with a Weaponsmith (or to Bambur) they are able to create the Godslayer, a powerful equipment.

As to the relationship between the civs and the relgions I don't want to force the civs down a certain road, just as you don't. But I probably won't give special abilities to civs if they have religions. Instead I will try to make synergy's between the relgions and the civs. So all civs work with all relgions, but some may work more efficently together.

 

[TheNewSaint]

Heya man, good to see you back. Equipment will probably come mostly from quests. For example, the first 3 players to explore an ancient temple could spawn a 'Shard of the Godslayer'. The shard is represented by a courier who carries it, a 0 combat unit that is caputurable. If any player gets all 3 of the shards in a city with a Weaponsmith (or to Bambur) they are able to create the Godslayer, a powerful equipment.

As to the relationship between the civs and the relgions I don't want to force the civs down a certain road, just as you don't. But I probably won't give special abilities to civs if they have religions. Instead I will try to make synergy's between the relgions and the civs. So all civs work with all relgions, but some may work more efficently together.

Yes, I decided that this mod will do a lot better than mine (unless anybody wants to click the link in my signature), and anyway, it is great.

The thing with having some work more effeciently, i think that this is what i have been trying to say, but the "effeciencies," in my oppinion, should be different from civ to religion to religion (as in a group work well with Veil, but also each has a different one too...)

Note: In case most people havent noticed, i use a lot of "Note:" and "()" and "..." ...

So, no chance of being able to have a militia type unit that can be changed by swapping weapons or getting weapons made by weaponsmiths? I feel hurt... *sniffels loudly* Oh well...

Note: Experienced civ 4 modders who have both nothing to do and a yearning to do something great. Check the link in my signature.

 

[TheNewSaint]

Sorry for kinda wasting that post and for posting this one, instead of editting my first...