[MOD] More Naval AI

[Darkling]

I wonder if it's possible to scale the strength of the summons by number of turns? I've seen Barbarian Eidolons during the early game a few time now and they can lay waste to an entire continent.

I do like the idea of all lairs getting one held defender. It'd mean the AI wouldn't get into trouble too quickly (or the player).

Played a game recently with the latest version (2.3) and it was good. The barbarians seemed to be producing disciples however, of all kinds (savants, acolytes, ecclesiastics...). Not sure if they're meant to be doing that.

 

[Tholal]

The barbarians seemed to be producing disciples however, of all kinds (savants, acolytes, ecclesiastics...). Not sure if they're meant to be doing that.

I thought I had squashed this bug. Give me a Savegame please!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

is it too late for a little wishlist?

I've tried editing the latest version to activate the power values next to civ scores but couldn't understand how it worked, well I see it only shows up with embassies when using advanced diplomacy but I have no idea how to change it so that it always shows up. I consider this feature essential to manage my unit production with building. it would be nice if you could explain how to change it, and GREAT if it could become an option

also, since we don't have the nifty civ4alerts telling us when cities are about to become unhappy, it would be AWESOME if you could import the Master of Mana code that makes cities automatically stop growing when they're about to become unhappy. it's not only very, very convenient for the player and reduces micromanagement a lot, it also helps the AI a big deal so it's definitely worth considering.

MoM also has buttons you can use to activate/deactivate the feature for happiness and health, but frankly it's pretty much only useful for happiness and the button is not really needed anyway, by default it's set to ON for happy and to OFF for health and it's fine that way. having the city itself automatically set avoid growth when it's about to become unhappy would be more than enough.

I'm taking the time to post this because unfortunately I've noticed these 2 things are keeping me from enjoying, and therefore playing, this modmod. now if they were fixed, I'd definitely become an avid player

Thanx for all the hard work Tholal!

 

[Darkling]

Sorry Tholal, I just had a quick look through the save games where it was happening and couldn't see any examples. During the game itself I killed over 40 tier one disciple units, but I couldn't tell you how many of them were barbarian. I remember being surprised by seeing a barbarian acolyte but in over 1200 turns I only killed 8 of them.

I looked in worldbuilder at various points while my count was increasing and there were no barbarians cities that could have been producing them nearby. They weren't being produced in any barbarian cities that I could see either.

Is it possible that they spawn in the fog of war once the barbs have the techs for them? Perhaps at a small chance? Or maybe my memory is playing games on me.

 

[Tasunke]

anyone else experiencing the Tech COLOR oddity?

 

[lfgr]

anyone else experiencing the Tech COLOR oddity?

Yes. It looks strange to me, too.

 

[doktarr]

I experience the tech colors you describe, but not the sensation of finding it odd.

 

[Tasunke]

anyone know of a way to alter the tech colors? I have a mental habit of avoiding techs colored red

 

[Tholal]

I just picked up the most recent version, with BUG integrated - and it's changed the colors of unresearched and unavailable to research technologies. Anyone know how to revert to the blue/red version instead of the red/black?

Btw ... in the tech tree it seems all wrong color wise. Blocked techs are black/empty, while researchable techs are red ... when I am used to the opposite, and its rather disturbing. Is this a simple python or XML error? designer's choice?

Think the color change was part of the BUG merge. The color choices didnt really bother me as long as it was consistent within itself, but I'll change it back. (bug entry)

anyone know of a way to alter the tech colors? I have a mental habit of avoiding techs colored red

It's in CvTechChooser.py. Couldn't tell you exactly where until I look at it myself.

Odd start, coastal flatland forested ice, figure it's start area modification code. But CTD error on hitting end turn.

Thanks for the save. I'll check it out!

If there is a flatland til with a road next to the city, and you have the enemy roads promotion, units will move and attack from that tile, even if you use the num pad. It appears that moving with the movement keys is the same as clicking with the mouse. the client still takes the best possible path from A to B.

Ah yes. I've seen this issue before. It's some sort of fundamental flaw with the pathfinder. Definitely something that I would like to fix some day.

Has anyone had issues customizing the BUG domestic advisor screen ? I can adjust anything, but it never saves, even if i hit the save button ( the computer icon ) I run C4 as administrator, or not, doesnt seem to make a difference.

It doesn't save for the session or are you trying to save it between game sessions?

is it too late for a little wishlist?

You can always wish!

I've tried editing the latest version to activate the power values next to civ scores but couldn't understand how it worked, well I see it only shows up with embassies when using advanced diplomacy but I have no idea how to change it so that it always shows up. I consider this feature essential to manage my unit production with building. it would be nice if you could explain how to change it, and GREAT if it could become an option

In CvMainInterface.py you need to find where bShowPower is being set and change it to be true all the time.

I wont be adding in an option for this in normal games because I consider it a cheat. This is not information that a player normally has access to.

also, since we don't have the nifty civ4alerts telling us when cities are about to become unhappy, it would be AWESOME if you could import the Master of Mana code that makes cities automatically stop growing when they're about to become unhappy. it's not only very, very convenient for the player and reduces micromanagement a lot, it also helps the AI a big deal so it's definitely worth considering.

Well the real goal would be to get the civ4alters working.

FFH already comes with an avoid growth button in the city screen. Does this not work?

AI decisions on city growth are handled separately from the interface so this shouldn't affect them at all.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

In CvMainInterface.py you need to find where bShowPower is being set and change it to be true all the time.

I wont be adding in an option for this in normal games because I consider it a cheat. This is not information that a player normally has access to.

you can still get that info from the power graph: BUG doesn't show hidden values, it just makes already present ones more accessible and readable. really all it means is that you don't have to keep checking the graph to see if you're safe from invasion or not.

this would be particularly good because the Naval AI seems rather bloodthirsty and more interested in power rating than relations ( not using aggressive AI of course ) and will DoW quickly if you don't keep up with them.

thanx for the info btw, I'll try taking another stab at it

Well the real goal would be to get the civ4alters working.

FFH already comes with an avoid growth button in the city screen. Does this not work?

AI decisions on city growth are handled separately from the interface so this shouldn't affect them at all.

as much as I love the civ4lerts, they don't hold a candle to the functionality I'm talking about. yes the avoid growth button works, but it doesn't solve micromanagement issues.

once you get a big empire, it's a HUGE pain to try and keep cities from getting too big. even with working civ4lerts telling you to turn on avoid growth, you'll just end up in the opposite problem: once you get additional happiness it's easy to forget to disable it and you'll be nerfed either way

I'm not sure how AI works under the hood in regards to this, but I am pretty sure that this "autotoggle avoidgrowth" functionality has helped the AI since the days of notque's Minor Leaders Modmod, which was the first one dealing with improved AI and naval AI.

the code itself originally came from Jean Elcard's FiRe ( Revolutions in Erebus ) , of which Naval AI actually is a very worthy natural successor now that I think about it he added two buttons that look like avoid growth next to the health and happy bars in the upper part of the city screen. Sephi then made the code 100% failure proof in MoM, becuase the original code had a couple holes in it.









all in all these 2 little UI tweaks make the gameplay 100% more enjoyable imho. more playing and less worrying

 

[Instinct]

Has anyone had issues customizing the BUG domestic advisor screen ? I can adjust anything, but it never saves, even if i hit the save button ( the computer icon ) I run C4 as administrator, or not, doesnt seem to make a difference.

It doesn't save for the session or are you trying to save it between game sessions?

I started the client through right clicking the shortcut and selecting run as administrator.
I started a game and added the Religions column to the domestic advisor and click the save button.
Played a few turns, saved, exit to main menu reloaded the same game and the changes still existed.
Load a different save game that was saved with no changes to the advisor and the changes are still there.
Exit client, restart with run as administrator, load any save game, all changes have been reset.

For some reason the changes are not carrying over between game sessions.

It may be that I need to set some permissions somewhere so that the mod can save the changes to disc.

 

[Skeet66]

Hey Tholal!

One major request that I'm sure the whole Civ4 community can agree on..

Please, please if you know how, make it so that combat % is not rigged .

I just lost Chalid (FFH character) at a 99.6% I mean come on!

Lucky for me I had life mana to bring him back.

If you don't know how to do this, then please ask Sephi.

He already has done to his mod, and it does wonders on your

Although I don't see him on this website much anymore, I'll try to get his attention on his website if you do need help.

Hope to hear from you with a yes!

 

[A Moon]

Please, please if you know how, make it so that combat % is not rigged .
I just lost Chalid (FFH character) at a 99.6% I mean come on!

So what you're saying is "Make the combat system not rigged by rigging it to help me."

99.6% means there's a 0.4% chance you'll lose your hero. It had to happen eventually, and in your case it happened then.

 

[Broken Hawk]

So what you're saying is "Make the combat system not rigged by rigging it to help me."

99.6% means there's a 0.4% chance you'll lose your hero. It had to happen eventually, and in your case it happened then.

I've lost a number of heroes and other highly promoted units with similar combat odds. Oh well. On the flip side, I've seen warriors take out Acheron. It balances out.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm getting another python error related to revolutions.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "BugEventManager", line 361, in _handleDefaultEvent
  File "Revolution", line 638, in onEndPlayerTurn
  File "Revolution", line 6385, in launchRevolution
  File "Revolution", line 6674, in spawnRevolutionaries
  File "RevUtils", line 519, in getHandoverUnitTypes
  File "PyHelpers", line 1252, in getDescription
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getDescription'

Note that this is very late in the game, when all the players have almost all the technologies and I control a massive empire that would be impossible to control if the Tower of Mastery did not grant Channeling III to arcane units and allow me an unlimited number of mages with Law III to cast Unyielding Order in almost every city. (The Unyielding Order building provides <iRevIdxLocal>-1000, <iRevIdxNational>-100, and <iRevIdxDistanceModifier>-100, in addition to stopping disorder every turn instead of only when cast.)

Also note that just before this game I adjusted the stability bonuses of various civics to make revolts less likely.




I wonder if you might also help me figure out another issue I've encountered with my modmod. I made the Citadel of Light a Malakim-only upgrade of the Citadel improvement (using the <PrereqCivilization> tag just like Kuriotates Enclaves), with a <PythonAtRange> call to make it attack enemy units. When I tested it just before my last release it seemed to be working as intended. However, since then I have noticed other players with these improvements in their lands even though they are nowhere close to the Malakim. I've had this problem before and never figure out what was causing it, but thought it had fixed itself. I suppose I could use python to make the improvement revert to being a Citadel again if it upgrades outside of Malakim lands, but I'd rather just stop it from happening.

Edit: The thought came to mid that the <bOutsideBorders> tag that allows forts to be built when not in anyone's territory might be causing the game to ignore the code that confirms that an improvement has the the right owner. I'll see if removing that fixes things.

 

[A Moon]

I've lost a number of heroes and other highly promoted units with similar combat odds. Oh well. On the flip side, I've seen warriors take out Acheron. It balances out.

Any how many battles have you won with heroes and other highly promoted units?

Off-topic, but does anyone else find that usage of the phrase "a number" to be a bit odd?
I could say I've won a number of marathons with my legs tied together, which is true, because zero is still a number.

 

[Skeet66]

Any how many battles have you won with heroes and other highly promoted units?

Off-topic, but does anyone else find that usage of the phrase "a number" to be a bit odd?
I could say I've won a number of marathons with my legs tied together, which is true, because zero is still a number.

It doesn't sound like you really understand much about this issue it seems.

Combat odds in civ4 are not what they appear to be, even though it might say 90% of victory. In fact a lot of things in civ4 aren't how they should be, like how can forest give the defender 25% defense against a melee unit? Saying ambush is bloody unlikely every time as well, but this is irrelevant right now.

I'm sure you've heard that the system isn't designed to play along with the player, but rather to everything in it's power just to mess you up. And this is exactly what Tholal is trying to fix.

So let's say what you said is true, and I do agree with it actually, that someday my unit can be unlucky and die to a 99.9% chance(Still highly unlikely in the real world compare to the chances in civ4).

The point is civ4 was designed on knowing that the AI lacks the power to think for it's self so they made this crap system where it might at least piss the player off losing his best unit. In Masters of Mana they FIX this by making 99+% chances a victory for you or the AI because they fixed the AI in their mod so you'll actually see high level AI units, once again this is what Tholal is trying to do, and this combat chance can be tossed out of the window, catch my drift now? You don't need this if the issue is fixed.

Once again we have to take notice as well that this is FFH and much of it plays different, and seeing Auric the god of winter dying to a spearmen is just a WTH moment don't you agree? I mean why get that godslayer for if I can just attack him with my level 1's.

I suggest you download MoM(created by a AI tweaker like Tholal) and try the mod your self, I'm sure you'll like the new system where you AND the AI have it fair game. In fact the AI will kick your ass guaranteed.

 

[A Moon]

It doesn't sound like you really understand much about this issue it seems.

All you said was "I don't like losing combat when the odds are very high."

Combat odds in civ4 are not what they appear to be, even though it might say 90% of victory.[Citation needed] In fact a lot of things in civ4 aren't how they should be, like how can forest give the defender 25% defense against a melee unit? Saying ambush is bloody unlikely every time as well, but this is irrelevant right now.Yes, it is. Why did you bring it up?

I'm sure you've heard that the system isn't designed to play along with the player, but rather to everything in it's power just to mess you up. And this is exactly what Tholal is trying to fix.

As a matter of fact, I've never heard that before. Seems a bit silly.

So let's say what you said is true, and I do agree with it actually, that someday my unit can be unlucky and die to a 99.9% chance(Still highly unlikely in the real world compare to the chances in civ4).

I really don't understand what you mean by that bit in the brackets.

The point is civ4 was designed on knowing that the AI lacks the power to think for it's self so they made this crap system where it might at least piss the player off losing his best unit. In Masters of Mana they FIX this by making 99+% chances a victory for you or the AI because they fixed the AI in their mod so you'll actually see high level AI units, once again this is what Tholal is trying to do, and this combat chance can be tossed out of the window, catch my drift now? You don't need this if the issue is fixed.

I'd say "changed" as opposed to "fix". There's no way to guarantee anything. I'd say the current system is more realistic than that, because there's always a slim, near zero chance that things will just happen to turn out badly for the stronger unit

Once again we have to take notice as well that this is FFH and much of it plays different, and seeing Auric the god of winter dying to a spearmen is just a WTH moment don't you agree? I mean why get that godslayer for if I can just attack him with my level 1's.

I'll agree about Auric, but only as a special case. He should have something special, but that's the only example in FFH.

I suggest you download MoM(created by a AI tweaker like Tholal) and try the mod your self, I'm sure you'll like the new system where you AND the AI have it fair game. In fact the AI will kick your ass guaranteed.

I've tried it. It didn't particularly grab me.

 

[TheLazyHase]

Combat odds in civ4 are not what they appear to be, even though it might say 90% of victory.

Civ4 base odds sometime are inaccurate, but not to the extend you believe.

In More naval AI the odds are exactly accurate (it's in BUG). Which draw anger from people like you that don't understand at all how statistics work.

I haven't tried the mod you're talking off, but it look like it put widly inaccurate odds, simply because humans being can't understand statistics, and something which appear accurate and/or random is usually the exact opposite.

 

[Skeet66]

Civ4 base odds sometime are inaccurate, but not to the extend you believe.

In More naval AI the odds are exactly accurate (it's in BUG). Which draw anger from people like you that don't understand at all how statistics work.

I haven't tried the mod you're talking off, but it look like it put widly inaccurate odds, simply because humans being can't understand statistics, and something which appear accurate and/or random is usually the exact opposite.

I know that the combat odds are accurate in BUG but you're forgetting that this is FFH an exception is to be made.

In Wild Mana if you have a 99.9% chance of winning they simply make it a 100%, but I guess that's too wildly inaccurate for you. If you have a 99.0-8% you still get the same old combat we see in vanilla meaning you can LOSE. They did this so you don't lose your heros because once again, this is FFH where gods roam.. and are subject to losing to a spearmen by sheer luck?

You jump to conclusions as well it seems and simply base assumptions, I suggest you try the mod please. but I'll put this discussion to rest seeing as no one actually takes the time to examine my suggestion or the mod.