[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

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Los Tirano said:
This is really an ambitious project (and it is succeeding), and a lot more good stuff looks like it will be added (assassins :lol: )

However, im wondering about the immortal. Its become quite a good unit in my games and its a shame some other civs will lose it. I play the egyptians and use the immortal as the elite guard for my cities while my chariots are out. I do this because the egyptian archers are quite weak. The archers are not a great second UU, only 1 extra first strike or whatever it is. They dont compare to the immortal.

So i realize why you are removing it, to be more realistic, but it does fill the niche of a pharaoh's guard of sorts; something that would have no doubt existed.

What do you think Houman?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your nice comments. :)

However I am not removing the immortal for the reasons you think of.
The immortal unit is not a fantasy unit. Immortals were the elite persian guards of their King. Their number was kept exactly in 10.000. When someone got sick or died, he got replaced by the next who has been trained before hand. (like reserve in a soccer game) ;)

They had all sidearms (Persian short sword or Akinakes) next to their chain armor, Apple Spear, Steady big shield and long bow.

They were not meant to be for every Civ, it was just a bug from my side.
The Egyption Archer is actually quite strong. Do not underestimate the 2 Fiststrikes and their 50% City Defense. This is as strong as the Immortal with its 12% City defense which is equal 3 + 50% = 4 + 12%

What makes the Immortal strong is the attack bonus. But it should be weak in defense. The problem is now where to place Immortal??

If it should need copper or Iron, why to build that rather than Axeman or Swordsman? And without the resources as the Archer replacement (they would be like the Mali Skirmisher, but with Attack bonus), which makes them a bit tougher I suppose. But I haven't tested them yet much. Historucally they have to come a bit later, but which Tech shall I choose for them...hard decision...

However the Immortal is no match for the Phalanx...there is another Unit that can counter Phalanx 50:50. Historically accurate BTW. ;)

Regarding your Pharao bowmen, they really aren't weak. They rule the normal archer, but weaker than Mali skirmisher. Give suggesttions and I think about it...

Houman
 
I have played this again. Indeed, clearing out the cache helped play with the realism earth map, and it plays entirely differently then. I played as the Chinese, and I must say it played very well the first 2000 years, which is how far I've gotten. I want to try this is MP, and I've asked my friends who play CIV IV with me about this. One of them had one worry: you hint at having made the nukes more powerful. Could you give me details about that? How much more powerful are they now?
 
Thats fine and it makes sense. Could you change the name of the Egyptian archer (very generic) to Pharaoh's Guard?

Do you think Persia is slighly overpowered now? It has the immortal and persian horse archer early on and sipahi later. Sure others have two UU's as well, but Persia has such a long period to use its UU's to devastating effect. A civ like France with musketeer and dragoon UU's has a shorter period to use them before they are redundant.

But, i am not suggesting changes. I like Persia quite a bit, especially the new flag and colour. It has a little more power than some others, but not to a ridiculous extent; and nothing that an alliance cant bring down.

What do you think Houman? What do others think of the UU balance between civs?
 
Hi guys,

My first post :p

I played the mod and I like it :D I played first time as Egyptians. War Chariot has city raider promotion available. I am not sure if this was the case in vanilla. But those promotions made my army invinsible in the very early phase.

I tried to go through the whole topic but it is very long :crazyeye: I understood that you realized that map generator is not perfect. I cannot write scripts but maybe my comments could make your life easier while upgrading the generator.

I selected Archipelago - Snaky Continents. 5 of 10 civs lived in my continent. 1. There was no single mountain
2. There was no single copper source
3. There was only one source of iron - I was lucky to have it :king:
4. There were horses in tundra :lol:

Those factors of course made the game not balanced but once fixed everything should be great.

Jungles are to easy to cut. With task force of 5 workers I removed all jungle in my country in a flash. In real life big civs did not develop in Amazonia or Kongo. I think a lot of jungle should disturb in your development.

Anyway great job. :goodjob: Today I m gonna try your patch and maybe world map.

Greetings for all Civfanatics! :cheers:
 
@Bringa

You guys should try it out. Don't worry it is not the case that the player can play god with ICBMs, however once a ICBM explodes in your city, you loos lots of population and buildings. The area will be radioactive poluted and production and growth goes down. The city needs many turns before it can get back to normality, of course if you have the extra terraforming ability and fix the ground around it. It is tough, but it is as well very expensive to obtain Nuclear Silos. Just give it a shot. ;)

@Los Tirano
Yeah, changing the name from Egyption Archer to Pharao Guard won't hurt the history. Since Food in China is also called food and not Chinese Food. ;)

Persia will be adjusted in the next patch. The immortal get buffed in the way that no resources are required anymore, however it will loose the 12% city defense. It won't do always 2 first strike either but 1-2 firststrikes. It will get 50% against mounted though, since they are spearmen as well. They are expensive anyway (Archer costs 25, Immortal 40). If I just could limit them that the player can have 7 at max, that would be great too.

This will change the situation. The Persians as expansionists, have to expand. The immortal doesn't have the normal 50% City defense. They are still good city defensive, but for that price, it is better to use them to attack and take cities.

The Sipahi might seem strong, however it is damn slow. Only 2 moves. The Arabs could counter it with Camels or their fast and cheap horses. There is always a counter for a unit, I have taken care of that. ;)

@Bolleque
I am glad you like it. However we have at this time no (man) resources to put on the generator. :( I am afriad you have to play the world map. But believe me, a generator can never be as accurate and balanced as a world map. The world map is made to having fun and having a challenge. Give it a shot. ;)

I will think about the jungle and if we should make the jungle chopping slower than it is now. There was also a suggestion from someone here, to make produce shields...I have to analyse this further...

Greetz
Houman
 
Great mod.

One comment, I tried to play Arabia twice, the Barbarians are out of Control.

They are all all over the place taking over everything.

Babalon is like Fort Knox. they just seem too strong. I'm using the Realism Map 1.4 with your Mod.

Very difficult in the Middle East.
 
Your right Houman, faster cavalry could out maneouver the sipahi. Race through Persia and get to a weak city before the reinforcements.

mmmm war chariots with city raider. A favourite of mine.
 
About the jungles. They should be slower to chop down. But if it is possible can you make 2 choices. One choice being harvesting the jungle which takes longer than it does now but gives productions. The second option being a "slash and burn" job. This is where the jungle is cut of most vegetation and then several days later start a huge fire to kill the remaining trees and plants. Here is a website to reference this: http://www.sprol.com/?p=188 But in real life this is horrible for the soil and removes much of the nutrition in several years (could be represent by making the terrain under the jungle worsen by changing from a grasslands->plains->desert based on what was originally underneath the jungle). To keep it fairly balanced you could also make it take 200% longer to harvest the jungle than to “slash and burn”. This is something of a repeat post so thanks for reading.

So in conclusion:
Slash and burn: Takes __ turns and changes terrain from grasslands->plains->desert
Harvest: Gives productions takes 200% longer than "slash and burn"

Paulk

P.S. Great job on this mod. Clearly evident this took a lot of time and manpower to accomplish.
 
The Egyptian Panthenon and the Greek Panthenon as alternative religions can be found in the Ancient Mediterranean mod if your interested.

Egyptian religion symbol is the eye of Ra. The missionary button is great but not sure if an islamic missionary is right for an egyptian missionary, maybe hindu? Perhaps Hindu buildings would be best suited as well?

:king:
 
Favorite new Quote that proves that "Realism" has failed:

"Gandhi adopts slavery!"

regards,
Israfil
 
Happens in the vanilla game as well, computer determines it is in its best interests.

But think of it like this, if Gandhi was around 3000 BC he wouldnt be the Gandhi of 1869-1948. He would think completely different, and be a product of his times. Therefore he would have no problem adopting slavery.
 
The Patch will be delayed by one day.
It will be published on Monday 27th March, Evening about 21:00 GMT

I have to test the patch truly to make sure everything is working...

Israfil, I will get back to you.

Regards
Houman
 
Los Tirano said:
Happens in the vanilla game as well, computer determines it is in its best interests.

But think of it like this, if Gandhi was around 3000 BC he wouldnt be the Gandhi of 1869-1948. He would think completely different, and be a product of his times. Therefore he would have no problem adopting slavery.
Click to expand...

@Tirano

:) I know that. Don't worry, I'm not completely naive. I just find it amusingly ironic.

Israfil.
 
You must be really overworked Houman so i wont ask you to include it any time soon, but have you had a look at Bacon's bad people mod?

He's on to his own sort of realism project by including people that are problematic for civilizations.
 
@Los Tirano

I checked it out. In my opinion the idea is not yet "cooked" properly as Kristine used to say. The Court has yet no influence on bad people. The whole idea needs fine tuning. Why is for example prostitution a bad thing?

Not all the cultures are puritarians like the Americans. ;) In most European countries prostitution is legalized and controlled by the government. And things like this have to happen randomly in a big city and not being sent by a foreign power to your cities. The idea is nice, but needs lots more adjustment.

Maybe in the next-next version.
Houman
 
Los Tirano said:
The Egyptian Panthenon and the Greek Panthenon as alternative religions can be found in the Ancient Mediterranean mod if your interested.

Egyptian religion symbol is the eye of Ra. The missionary button is great but not sure if an islamic missionary is right for an egyptian missionary, maybe hindu? Perhaps Hindu buildings would be best suited as well?

:king:
Click to expand...


I will have a look into that, but Religions are the hardest part to implement. I hope they have designed temples for them. But I am afriad they might have overwritten existing religions with 2 new ones, let see...

I don't understand what you mean with the egyption missionary is an islamic missionary? The missionary's leader depends on your state religion. So if you choose Islam then it is a Mullah. ;)
 
Paulk said:
About the jungles. They should be slower to chop down. But if it is possible can you make 2 choices. One choice being harvesting the jungle which takes longer than it does now but gives productions. The second option being a "slash and burn" job. This is where the jungle is cut of most vegetation and then several days later start a huge fire to kill the remaining trees and plants. Here is a website to reference this: http://www.sprol.com/?p=188 But in real life this is horrible for the soil and removes much of the nutrition in several years (could be represent by making the terrain under the jungle worsen by changing from a grasslands->plains->desert based on what was originally underneath the jungle). To keep it fairly balanced you could also make it take 200% longer to harvest the jungle than to “slash and burn”. This is something of a repeat post so thanks for reading.

So in conclusion:
Slash and burn: Takes __ turns and changes terrain from grasslands->plains->desert
Harvest: Gives productions takes 200% longer than "slash and burn"

Paulk

P.S. Great job on this mod. Clearly evident this took a lot of time and manpower to accomplish.
Click to expand...

Paul, The idea is very nice. I will see what can be done... ;)
 
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