Mod Support

The_Reckoning

Prince
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
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436
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UK
Is there any concrete sign they're making the game more moddable?

XCOM2's mod support has been great, letting people change the game significantly and provide many quality of life improvements in the same week the game was released.

The article on IGN says "Notably, this is the first Civ game since Civilization 4 in 2004 to launch with a completely new game engine – one Firaxis says it’s designed from the ground up with deep mod support in mind."

However for BE they said "Mod support: Robust mod support allows you to customize and extend your game experience.", and the mod scene never took off quite like Civ4's - we never saw total conversions on the scale of FFH2.

Cautious optimism?
 
I really hope they learned from Civ5, they killed off the mod scene Civ4 had by the extremely steep learning curve and, more importantly, their very hard to implement model format. And the long delay until we got the DLL source.

It took ages until we could import unit models (thanks to Deliverator's heroic efforts) and we never quite had the level of control we had in Civ4. City models are still not moddable and terrain graphics are not as changeable as in Civ4. UI mods are also... clunky (only as DLC mod, so no longer modular).

That's what really killed off total conversions on the graphics side, Fall from Heaven or Planetfall just wouldn't work with "regular" Civ graphics. On the other hand, Civ5 had modular mods, nice mix-and-match modlets, that's something where Civ5/BE mod support was excellent. Civ4 never had that.

I hope that Civ6 will be built with both in mind, especially since BtS back then shipped with total conversions by Firaxis (like Afterworld).
 
Although I have been fine switching between Mac and Bootcamp Windows when I want to play a mod that requires DLL, it would be nice if the Mod system was truly universal.
 
Civ 5 was my first foray into modding and I found it pretty frustrating that the tools were terrible and there was so much you couldn't mod, such as adding new natural wonders, or seeing something cool in the database only to find Firaxis had prevented us from using it.

I sure hope 6 is an improvement over that.
 
I agree with Lord Tirian that a lot hinges on how modable the graphics are. I get the feeling that "deep mod support" might not extend to the graphical side of things.

Reposting part of what I posted in this "Why are there so many less mods for Civ 5 than 4?" thread as some of it is relevant:

...a lot of it boils down to what can be modified graphically and how easy it is.

I worked on the Civ IV Dune Wars mod off and on since 2009, and it think it's fair to say it's one of the most comprehensive total conversions of Civ IV. There is however quite a long list of things that things that we did with the Civ IV graphics engine that aren't possible in CiV, most notably:

1) Removing the oceans to create a sand sea that units could walk across.
2) Heightmap editing of terrain: Turning Hills into Sinks (valleys) and Mountains into Hills then re-adding Peaks as impassable features.
3) Editing visual effects to make Sandstorms, Spice Blows, Chemical Trooper gas attacks, Sonic Tank attacks, etc.
4) Creating any number of terrain types as required each with their own graphical style. Using this to create areas of Spice in the sand sea.

Spoiler :

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The scope to turn the CiV earth into another world is quite limited (unless you have the tools and access to things that the Beyond Earth dev team had!). Compare this with Civ IV where you had Final Frontier, FFH2, Dune Wars, Planetfall, Mars Now... someone even mod-modded FFH2 into a dungeon crawler with multiple maps. I'll be surprised if Firaxis ever match the modability of Civ IV.

There is also a chicken-egg problem with non-real-world total conversion mods - you need quite a large amount of artwork to get the project going, but without an established project graphical artists might not be too motivated to create art for it. Also these total conversions take a lot of work. FFH2 took 3 years of solid work from quite a large team of designers, coders and artists. Dune Wars was also a team effort of 4 or 5 people at times. A lot of CiV mods seems to be the work of individuals or small teams in general meaning it is much harder to realise a grand vision.

Also EVERYTHING graphical is easier (and therefore more enjoyable and fun) in Civ 4. You can reskin units and see the changes instantly in Nifskope. With CiV you have to edit the model file to do a reskin and you can't see the results without using the pretty useless Nexus 3D Viewer, or Blender or the game itself.

I only started working on what became Nexus Buddy 2 in Spring 2013 to try and start to get to a place where reliable modification of CiV 3D assets was possible. There have been numerous breakthroughs and much is now possible from editing 3D Leaders to editing animations.

When Civ 4 modding was at its peak and CiV was first released there was a much larger number of graphic modders with Blender skills. Sadly very few of these made the switch to CiV and those that did have mostly disappeared. I do wonder whether if we'd had the tools and techniques we have now back in 2010 that might have been different.

Hopefully Firaxis will take more of an XCOM2 approach with Civ VI and build it to support rather than frustrate graphical modders and allow non-graphical modders to make graphical changes. For example why not have a simple to use 3D Leader making tool that works just like the XCOM2 character customization? A basic stock of attire from different historic eras would probably allow uses to create 90% historic leaders and modders could add additional items if they had the skills.

A fundamental issue issue is that modders need to be able edit vanilla graphics to make new graphics, rather than just import models they have created themselves, but this is a facility that Firaxis are unlikely to provide themselves. It's likely that with a new graphics engine they will allow FBXs to be imported into the new format (they did that for CiV although it was very broken, and they have done with XCOM 2). However, it's very unlikely that they will provide for vanilla models and animations to imported into 3D editing software like Blender so they can be altered and reimported to the game. Nifskope/Nif scripts for editing Civ 4 graphics and Nexus Buddy 2/Blender scripts for CiVwere not developed by game developers so it is likely to be down the modding community to create the tools that really unlock graphics modding. If they are using Granny as their 3D engine then some of the existing stuff we have for CiV might work, but that is a long shot.

My biggest hopes for graphics modding are:

1) The terrain is really modable so that you can really make the environment look and feel like another world.

2) Visual effects are modable in someway. Civ 5 didn't even bother to implement a Reload Visual Effects option for mods so you were stuck with just the vanilla visual effects. Even the ability to resize and retexture the visual effects would be a step forward and would help open things up for sci-fi and fantasy total conversions.

3) The do something to make creating custom 3D Leaders as simple as they can possible make it.

The gameplay changes seem really interesting so I'm hopeful but we'll have to wait and see how extensive the mod support is in the end.
 
I have the feeling that Firaxis when developing Civ5 had already in mind Civ:BE so they intentionally wanted the game not to be well modable, to avoid a Civ5:Planetfall mod overshadowing Civ:BE. Let's hope that this time they dont have such intentions :rolleyes:

If Civ6 won't be able to create better mods than Civ4 (like ROM:AND as my absolute favorite) I really doubt to switch to it.
 
I have the feeling that Firaxis when developing Civ5 had already in mind Civ:BE so they intentionally wanted the game not to be well modable, to avoid a Civ5:Planetfall mod overshadowing Civ:BE. Let's hope that this time they dont have such intentions :rolleyes:
That sounds like a rather silly idea to me.

Some of the Beyond Earth Game Files also hint at Beyond Earth being "Expansion 3", so I'd say it's unlikely that they planned to release it as a full game. It's probably an expansion that simply grew too large, which is why they decided to make it a stand-alone.
 
Hello
Don't know if this is the right place to ask. 2questions:
1. How to increase the minimum distance between cities? I prefer uncrowded worlds
2. How to make city states stronger? Currently they are far too easy to conquer, where can i increase their default strength or their initial units for example?
Thanks
 
Two things that are coming

We will get a "AssetEditor.exe", which sounds like a simple tool to change and add data.

Second "AssetCloud.exe" which Is beyond me as I not sure what cloud could mean
 
Two things that are coming

We will get a "AssetEditor.exe", which sounds like a simple tool to change and add data.

Second "AssetCloud.exe" which Is beyond me as I not sure what cloud could mean

Interesting... where are you getting this info from?
 
Interesting... where are you getting this info from?

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization VI\Base\Binaries\Win64Steam

File name FiraxisBugReporter.exe open in Notepadd ++

"WatchedApplications": [ "Civ6_Win64_DX11_FinalRelease.exe", "CivilizationVI.exe", "CivilizationVI_DX12.exe", "AssetEditor.exe", "AssetCloud.exe"
 
I really hope they learned from Civ5, they killed off the mod scene Civ4 had by the extremely steep learning curve and, more importantly, their very hard to implement model format. And the long delay until we got the DLL source.

It took ages until we could import unit models (thanks to Deliverator's heroic efforts) and we never quite had the level of control we had in Civ4. City models are still not moddable and terrain graphics are not as changeable as in Civ4. UI mods are also... clunky (only as DLC mod, so no longer modular).

That's what really killed off total conversions on the graphics side, Fall from Heaven or Planetfall just wouldn't work with "regular" Civ graphics. On the other hand, Civ5 had modular mods, nice mix-and-match modlets, that's something where Civ5/BE mod support was excellent. Civ4 never had that.

I hope that Civ6 will be built with both in mind, especially since BtS back then shipped with total conversions by Firaxis (like Afterworld).

Same feeling and same hope :D
 
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