Mod the plague

[Edungeon]

So Rome build all that Aqueducts in real life for mistical reasons? no, it build because it keeps the people healty and prevent from getting diseases.

 

[Jayman1000]

I completely disagree. Keeping your people healthy and well fed has always been a priority for countries. The plague mechanic gives you a reason to keep your cities healthy before the industrial age (when you start to reach the health cap for growth).

You're right, it's a great incentive to keeping your health high. But you only know that it is good to do so because you know what the consequenses of the plague is. In real world history, even the smelliest and most filthy city/empire didn't have 80-90% population/army decimated because of plague. But of course it comes down to a matter of taste, I would like it to be realistic, so all of this is of course just suggestions.

 

[Gunner]

You're right, it's a great incentive to keeping your health high. But you only know that it is good to do so because you know what the consequenses of the plague is. In real world history, even the smelliest and most filthy city/empire didn't have 80-90% population/army decimated because of plague. But of course it comes down to a matter of taste, I would like it to be realistic, so all of this is of course just suggestions.

So you think its more realistic to be able to completely ignore health until a good part of the game is finished?

 

[Rhye]

in v190/140 there's the weakest plague ever.
It's even possible to avoid it completely.
It's strange to hear that you lost 80% or 100% of your units. It shouldn't have happened now

 

[Jayman1000]

in v190/140 there's the weakest plague ever.
It's even possible to avoid it completely.
It's strange to hear that you lost 80% or 100% of your units. It shouldn't have happened now

I had three cities with granaries. But the capital was pop 7 and had that green icon for bad health, it was located in Egypt just by the Nile. In the end I ended up having 1 warrior in the NW city and two archers that were exploring far away lands. A Barbarian Camel archer from W moved in and killed the warrior and destroyed the city. 3 swordsmen from middle africa appeared and 2 of them moved against my capital which they destroyed. The last swordsman moved east to my most southern third and last city, but at that time I just gave up. Anyway I will try again to see if it goes otherwise. Now building aquaducts and granaries and ensuring cities don't get to big to get green icon.

 

[Jayman1000]

So you think its more realistic to be able to completely ignore health until a good part of the game is finished?

I met the plague early in the game and I didn't completely ignore it since I had built granaries. Only the capital had low health and high(7) population. I just think that, in addition to prevention like health-buildings and low pop, there should be some immediate means of containing the effects of plague, like shutting down trade routes and not moving units out or in or near the plagued city. I don't know if it would be possible to mod it though.

 

[Abegweit]

So you think its more realistic to be able to completely ignore health until a good part of the game is finished?

Certainly I do. That's how it worked in the real world. The fact is that the human beings are quite fecund and, if babies die, you just have to have a few more until the population reaches the carrying capacity of the environment again.

In truth, The Four Horsemen have never really had much effect on the size of a civ. They certainly may have been tragic from the perspective of the individual but they don't really affect civs.

Six million people died in WII and the population of Europe kept growing. The Black Death, the worst plague in history (and from this perspective, the only important one at all), led to a dip from which Europe rebounded within a generation. Neither event seemed to any impact on countries' abilities to wage war.

 

[Mowque]

Certainly I do. That's how it worked in the real world. The fact is that the human beings are quite fecund and, if babies die, you just have to have a few more until the population reaches the carrying capacity of the environment again.

In truth, The Four Horsemen have never really had much effect on the size of a civ. They certainly may have been tragic from the perspective of the individual but they don't really affect civs.

Six million people died in WII and the population of Europe kept growing. The Black Death, the worst plague in history (and from this perspective, the only important one at all), led to a dip from which Europe rebounded within a generation. Neither event seemed to any impact on countries' abilities to wage war.

disagree. the black death stopped the Hundreds years war in it's tracks. the plauge killed of the native american's FAR, Far, more then bullets did. wars have wiped out whole civs. (do i really need to list them?)

i found the plauge very good this time around. i was china, and i got missed by two of them.

 

[Abegweit]

disagree. the black death stopped the Hundreds years war in it's tracks. the plauge killed of the native american's FAR, Far, more then bullets did.

You are wrong. The Hundred Years War continued for nearly a hundred years after the plague.

While it is certainly true that smallpox killed more Indians than bullets, that is scarcely the point. It had little impact on the conquest of the New World. The conquest was all about replacing a native elite with a European elite (I assume that we are talking about Incas and Aztecs here). There were many factors but this one was minor. In fact, both civs were conquered on contact, before the "plague" had a chance to strike.

My estimation of the most important reasons: a) superior military technology b) Indians couldn't imagine that the Spaniards had no sense of honour c) peasants don't really care who their overlords are. How exactly was the average Inca hurt by the European conquest? I would say that he benefited from it. Things like plows and mules had to make his life easier. Sure, a few more of his children died for a generation or so. Life is hard.

wars have wiped out whole civs. (do i really need to list them?)

Ummm. This is not about the death of civs. It is about the death of people. Wars generally have little impact on population or military power, which is the point at hand. Even when the victors indulge in genocide, the dead are quickly replaced.

i found the plauge very good this time around. i was china, and i got missed by two of them.

Yeah. That seems to be the pattern. The player likes it because he learns how to deal with it while the AI has no clue. This is the part I object to the most in gameplay terms. It simply hands a huge advantage to the human.

 

[Rhye]

It had little impact on the conquest of the New World.

what? Have you ever heard of "Guns, Germs and Steel"?

 

[Rhye]

How exactly was the average Inca hurt by the European conquest? I would say that he benefited from it. Things like plows and mules had to make his life easier. Sure, a few more of his children died for a generation or so. Life is hard.

This is hardly true. The arrival of Europeans was a cataclysm for all the native Americans

 

[Abegweit]

what? Have you ever heard of "Guns, Germs and Steel"?

I own the book and have read it about four times. In contrast with "Collapse" (which I also own and which is cruddy nonsense), it is an excellent piece of work. There are a few errors. One is that Diamond seriously overestimates the impact of germs. Actually, despite the title, he doesn't talk much about them at all. Guns and steel are what counted. Not to mention horses and sheep and wheat and other stuff you don't see in the title.

The arrival of Europeans was a cataclysm for all the native Americans.

How was this a cataclysm for the average Aztec or Incan peasant? Be specific please. Yeah sure, on initial contact a few more of their children may have died. Oh well. Lots did anyway. The human race is designed for these kinds of conditions. If children live, space them out. If they die get replacements. Among other things, it is well-known that breast-feeding inhibits conception. IOW, if a woman is successfully bringing up a baby, that is sufficient for the moment. If the baby dies, for whatever reason, she needs another. This is the way we are designed.

 

[Elhoim]

How was this a cataclysm for the average Aztec or Incan peasant? Be specific please. Yeah sure, on initial contact a few more of their children may have died. Oh well. Lots did anyway.

It did not affect it´s children only, it affected them all.

 

[Rhye]

How was this a cataclysm for the average Aztec or Incan peasant? Be specific please. Yeah sure, on initial contact a few more of their children may have died. Oh well. Lots did anyway. The human race is designed for these kinds of conditions. If children live, space them out. If they die get replacements. Among other things, it is well-known that breast-feeding inhibits conception. IOW, if a woman is successfully bringing up a baby, that is sufficient for the moment. If the baby dies, for whatever reason, she needs another. This is the way we are designed.

Europeans enslaved and moved whole populations, converted and changed their way of life, exploited them in every way, burned cities to the ground. Plus they brought diseases. More or less the end of the world the Aztecs were waiting for.
Is that enough to be considered a cataclysm?

 

[Mowque]

also, their way of life was destroyed. not bad enough? also in the Mississippi civs, nearly EVERYONE DIED. over 85% died before direct contact with the White man.

About war, the Punic wars and the wars at the end of the Roman empire saw the loss of a very large % of men in Europe and Italy.

ohh, and above i meant it caused a pause in the Hundred's Years war. not a complete stop. sorry about that.

 

[Whitefire]

I had three cities with granaries. But the capital was pop 7 and had that green icon for bad health, it was located in Egypt just by the Nile. In the end I ended up having 1 warrior in the NW city and two archers that were exploring far away lands. A Barbarian Camel archer from W moved in and killed the warrior and destroyed the city. 3 swordsmen from middle africa appeared and 2 of them moved against my capital which they destroyed. The last swordsman moved east to my most southern third and last city, but at that time I just gave up. Anyway I will try again to see if it goes otherwise. Now building aquaducts and granaries and ensuring cities don't get to big to get green icon.

Simply amazing. Egypt was destroyed by outsiders. I hate to be sarcastic with you, but the scenario was setup to mimic history. If you play as Carthage, Babylon, Egypt, Vikings, Greece, Rome, Mali, Aztecs or Incas, you should not be surprised that the game is setup to crush you. Those empires, while powerful at the time, were either destroyed or controlled by exterior forces.

In truth, The Four Horsemen have never really had much effect on the size of a civ. They certainly may have been tragic from the perspective of the individual but they don't really affect civs.

Hate to be rude, but that statement is just plain ignorant. Ancient Rome (the city not the Empire) was killed because Germans destroyed the aqueduct system. Without fresh running water, human waste and general trash began to pile up. This was the main factor causing the 1M+ population of Rome to dwindle to 50k in a few years. Saying health is unrealistic in any Era is ludicrous. If you wanted to win a war, regardless of casualities, you cut off the food supply and poison the wells.

 

[Barak]

In 140 as turkey I am hit by a strong plague that wipes out 3 units per city in the first turn. I doesnt wipe out EVERY unit in cities, but still wipes out my strongest ones. I understand teh idea of oldet units, but when a unit is upgraded from warrior through to maceman, is it still the oldest? In that way a civs best units could be killed off just because they have been successful in battle.

Have had three cities lose all their units.

 

[jgbaxter]

Also plague makes it almost impossible if not impossible for China to get it's 120 units.

 

[Spearcatcher]

what? Have you ever heard of "Guns, Germs and Steel"?

An excellent book if I ever saw one.

 

[Barak]

I still notice that cities that have 3 units or fewer get completely wiped out due to plague. I realize that the system is now much weaker than it used to be, it just sucks to have to spend so much time building units to defend your cities.

I also notice that the plagues do NOT seem to be hurting AI cities as much. Memel in my last game only lost 1 pop and NO units, while it wiped out all but 3 units in my 5 Viking cities.