[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[mgdpublic]

HELP! Ok I deleted my cache, restarted my computer, and renamed my custom assets folder to something else. When I start the game however, there is no in-game gui. And when I click on "options" nothing happens. Can anyone help me with this?

Can someone PLEASE help me with this? I'm stuck about what to do.

 

[Marmoteo]

I love this mod. You guys really made a great job.

Anyway, I was wondering why I can't trade technologies by the time I research Writing. Did you moved the technology trading to another tech, or is it just an error from my computer?

 

[bovinespy]

I will concede the point about the cheaper building for their respective traits as it does make since and its balanced to the reset of the vanilla traits. beside it makes switching the trait as simple as renaming them.

Now as far as Individual leaders like Nappy and Bismark well I really don't see where Bismark would be aggressive, maybe we could give him the Ind/Phi instead of Roosevelt and see how it goes as he was much into the political aspects of creating the German state than being very militaristic. I still Nappy would be more true to form as Aggressive and Expansionist. The point that it would be similar to Genghis while it is valid it is also incidental as there has to be some overlap in traits due to then amount of Civs/Leaders vs number of traits to choose from. And it will give you another Agg trait in the Area while limiting to many Ind. Of course we could always make Nappy Agg/Ind instead making him a force to contend with which in history he was and as I think about it probably the best fit for him then we could give the expansionist trait to Louie which would be a better fit IMO.

We need to come up with a matrix that shows the traits they have vs what we think they should have and have the ones of the Realism Map be dissimilar to provided the best diversity and balance.

Hi Nightravn. For my part, I'm willing to concede that I agree with you about Louis'/Nappy's/Bismarck's traits respective to their historical records. However, from my viewpoint, since I intend on playing the bejeezus out of the TR Earth map, I'm far more concerned about the traits of the nations themselves as opposed to the leaders. That's why I would argue for an Ind/NewExp France and an Agg/Ind Germany. Moreover, when you look at it from a national perspective, why should Greece be identified as Aggressive solely because of the exploits of one guy (Alex)? Most Greek colonization proceeded relatively peacefully, certainly more so than the bellicose Romans (how can they not be aggressive? ).

Without drawing this into a discussion of every single leaders' traits, maybe a possible compromise would to have the traits linked to leaders for random maps and to nations for the TR Earth map? Like for example, maybe Nappy is Agg/Ind on random maps, but NewExp/Ind on TR Earth?

 

[bovinespy]

Hi Houman. Just to get away from the whole traits controversy for a minute, let me pick a few nits with you about something else

So, I'm playing my England game and after colonizing southern Africa, most of Indonesia, and half of Australia, I discover to my surprise that I have no oil! So I zoom out to take a look at the global oil distribution (I know I could peek in WorldBuilder, but you only get one chance to play a mod/scenario for the 1st time and I don't want to spoil the surprise). These are areas that I feel are grossly underepresented in oil resources:

Indonesia*
Nigeria*
Venezuala*
Mexico

*Mind you, all of these countries are members of OPEC, so that should say something

Also, as a WW2 buff, I was a little disappointed to see that the Ploesti oilfields in Romania (Hitler's main source until late '44) and the oilfields of the North Caucasus region in Russia (Hitler's main economic objective in the '42 summer offensive) were not represented.

Conversely, I was a little surprised to see oil pop up in Patagonia, the Gobi Desert/Upper Huang Ho Valley, and the West Australian desert

Other than oil, the one thing I really noticed about saltpeter distribution was there was none in the region of Peru/Bolivia/northern Chile. If any place in the world should have saltpeter, it should be there, considering those three countries fought a war over saltpeter from 1879 to 1884! (The War of the Pacific aka the Saltpeter War )

Finally, although I noticed this (in game terms) thousands of years ago, it just struck me now - why does Ireland have iron, but England, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution with steel mills, etc., does not?

Please take this as constructive criticism. I love this mod and especially its Earth map, and would keep playing even with no changes. Its just that, as a student of geography (literally - in university), I felt I could help you move just that little closer to the Total Realism goal.

 

[Raize]

mgdpublic -> CTRL + I apparently minimizes the interface according to the keyboard shortcuts. Maybe if you hit this it'll fix it? (Never used it before so I don't know if this will work.)

 

[rumbold]

oK guys, some fixes have been applied. From now Organized and Expansionist are swapped.

I think this might just confuse people, swapping the effects of the traits. I'm sure you realize too many people don't read any readme file or the thread or even the pedia, so when a player selects a leader with one of these traits, they will expect vanilla only to find out they've been switched.

Instead of changing the effects of the traits, why not just switch which ones go with which leader? I know it'd be odd seeing Tokugawa with Expansive, but I think it'd be more intuitive for players to see that than seeing him with Organized but getting Expansive traits.

Its funny that some people still believe Roosevelt was surprised buy "Pearl Harbor" and was only dragged into the war. There are enough offical facts out there that implies Roosevelt knew the Japanese are coming but he needed a 9/11 to have the population behind him going into the war. I suggest Agg/Exp or Ind/Exp

I never said he didn't know anything about it or even that he didn't want to fight in WWII, because I think he did. But do you think if there wasn't a WWII he was the kind of leader that would go out looking to start one?

To me, that is the difference between an Aggressive leader and a non-Aggressive leader. All leaders will go to war when needed, but it is a Nappy/Genghis/Alex who are the types that seem to go looking for a fight. And I think such leaders are appropriately given the Aggressive trait.

But I'm not strong in history. I know many civers are, so I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and one last thing - the reason I think Washington could be Aggressive, though, is simply because he made his name/career in the military (at least, before becoming President) and because I don't understand why he would be considered Financial (did the US have great economic growth under Washington? Or is the trait suppose to be more reflective of US tendencies?). I don't think in necessarily fits (i.e., he's wasn't a Nappy/Genghis/Alex kind of leader), but I fail to see how Financial fits either.

Just my two cents.

And - of course - always appreciate the teams work on the mod. I've tried to do some modding on my own, I know it can be very time consuming and I appreciate the dedication you've all shown. My computer just died, so haven't been able to try 2.0 yet, but look forward to doing so once I'm up and running again.

 

[Nightravn]

Well Bovine, If you look at my chart I am purposing that Louie be changed to Ind/Exp so if those are the traits you think France should have you could always replace Nappy with him. I am more inclined to keep Nappy with his default traits as he really didn't produce a huge empire like his counter part. As for Germany while it certainly has a some historic times of being Aggressive I think that those traits might be better reserved for another leader. Maybe in the future there might be a suitable leader head for those particular traits.

edited to address bovines oil concerns.... Since I am the one who basically handles all map adjustments I will definitely take all suggestions on how to make the map more realistic keeping in mind that we still want to keep an eye on balance and strategic gameplay. If you would be so kind as to point to actually where these resources should be, even better if you could place them with WB and send me that file. Of course you should wait until you have finished your game so you won't spoil any surprises.

 

[Los Tirano]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139774

Here is the link to the leader's mod. If you want a thoroughly aggressive leader of germany they have hitler in there, amongst new ones for every civ. Political correctness aside we really should add hitler because we even have the grey german infrantry now, and this mod is getting quite a few ww2 units. The mod also has Stalin and Churchill. But i remember you arent adding new elements at the moment. So i sincerely hope you dont forget it later on.

 

[Jeff1787]

I can't rename cities????

 

[Serga]

I can't rename cities????

I can and think you can too
Try to click city name in the city screen.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139774

Here is the link to the leader's mod. If you want a thoroughly aggressive leader of germany they have hitler in there, amongst new ones for every civ. Political correctness aside we really should add hitler because we even have the grey german infrantry now, and this mod is getting quite a few ww2 units. The mod also has Stalin and Churchill. But i remember you arent adding new elements at the moment. So i sincerely hope you dont forget it later on.

The one I made for Realism and posted two pages ago is an extended and slightly reworked first version of this one by Llotyhy (the mod has made quite some progress since too, so we have about equally developed mods now).

http://rapidshare.de/files/22979308/Leaderpack_for_Realism_v2.00.rar.html

I've changed most leaderheads so they display correct proportions (it was an issue back then - see screenshots on the first page), and are more visually attractive, and added a few leaders of my own. And yes, Hitler and Churchill are in, though I've replaced Stalin with Lenin (seeing overview of the latest version, I should say that we've made several identical decisions adding leaders in later, but several different too).

Though, I don't think that this stuff should be included in the base install - not everyone likes static leaderheads. Perhaps as an optional download... If there's a general interest in this, I can continue to work and add some new leaders (and polish the AIs of existing ones), providing an "expansion pack" to the mod.

 

[Mexico]

I love this mod. You guys really made a great job.

Anyway, I was wondering why I can't trade technologies by the time I research Writing. Did you moved the technology trading to another tech, or is it just an error from my computer?

tech trading is disabled, we are using new opentech component -more in readme.txt (link in start menu)

 

[Jeff1787]

I can and think you can too
Try to click city name in the city screen.

Nope, doesn't work

 

[Houman]

Houman - You were doing great until your dumb Roosevelt/Pearl Harbor/9-11 comment. Let's keep the political fantasies for an appropriate medium, thank you. Apart from that, great mod and good work!

Thank you!
Maybe you should speak up to ban this mod because of my "dumb" opinion, same like some tried to ban Dixie Chicks, George Clooney etc for their "dumb" comments.

Regarding The Pearl Harbor:

Historians are still arguing over whether President Franklin Roosevelt knew in advance that Japanese forces were about to launch a devastating attack against the U.S. Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941.

Mr. Roger A. Stolley, a resident of Salem, Oregon, has something important to add to this discussion. In the following essay, which first appeared in the Salem daily Statesman Journal, December 7, 1991, he provides personal information to confirm that Roosevelt not only anticipated the Japanese attack, but specifically ordered that no steps be taken to prevent it. (Mr. Stolley's essay is reprinted here with grateful permission of the author.)

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p119_Stolley.html

Its actually like the game, its funny how history repeats. Mr. Bush has also used recent events in his country to declare war on everyone who is not with them. One way to make your political party popular among your countrymen. The ancient Romans did the same thing...



@Cow @Nightravn

BTW Why are we actually calling you cow? Anyway keep up the good discussion and make the best trait for these leaders.

The Patch seems to be almost finished.

Kind Regards
Houman

 

[bovinespy]

@Nightravn - I did see your chart (very nice). I know I could replace Nappy with Louis, but I was just thinking of default leaders/traits for the TR Earth. Anyway, I'm just tickled pink that the overall Org/Exp swap is going ahead. Everything else at this point is gravy. We can argue over leader traits again after the next patch comes out...

As far as the map is concerned, I'd be happy to give you suggestions for oil/coal/aluminum/uranium placements via WB save as soon as I've "discovered" them for myself in-game (hopefully over the next few days - I'm trying to race for a Space Victory as fast as I can). As far as iron and copper are concerned, I could try and give suggestions also, but because both of those are far more common resources, their placement is IMHO much more one of game balance, rather than real-world concentrations. Similarly, although saltpeter deposits may have been rather concentrated in real-world distributions, I wonder how much effect that should have on gameplay (especially for later units like Marines, Machinegunners, etc.) when you consider that Europe was making its own saltpeter from cow dung (love those cows! ) in the late medieval era. As such, I would be far more inclined to have gunpowder units require the construction of a building (i.e. "Gunpowder Mill") for their creation, as opposed to linking them to a quasi-strategic resource. Maybe you could combine the ideas and have a special building produce "Gunpowder" as a resource? (Kind of like you already have the Fish Market WW produce the Tuna resource). You could make it a National Wonder, of even just a fairly expensive building (similar to a Factory in expense). Then you could even play geopolitical games by giving the Gunpowder tech and supplying the Gunpowder resource to the backward opponents of your closest rivals!

Or, you could just make Gunpowder units depend on having Cow resources, not Saltpeter...

Another problem is: what should I use for criteria when locating resource sites? Known reserves as of 2006? Current production facilities? Historical, though now defunct, locales (e.g. the Pennsylvania oil-fields)? Sites that were not significant in absolute output, but were of crucial historical significance? I guess I'll start with seeing whatever data I can dig up, and then go where it takes me...

@Houman - I don't know exactly why people are calling me the cow, but I've been called worse things! And after all, this being the anonymous internet, maybe I'm not actually human, but a highly-evolved cow? How would you know?....

Can't wait for the next patch!

 

[Nightravn]

@ Bovine - One other issue I have with having Bismark being Aggressive is that puts 2 aggressive leader right next to each other. I think that with Bismark being Ind/Org(the new Org) that they should be just fine as they usually are in most of my test games when they had those trait to begin with but I am really think about giving him the Ind/Phi combo to see just how that will work.

@rumbold - I think that the traits themselves while they may tie into the actual person that is the leader, I think they are more indicative of the whole countries inclination at the time when that leader was there. Just look at the Industrious Trait that is not something that you would say of the leader themselves but more of the country at that time. That is why the Fin/Exp works with Washington as at that time the country was fairing very well financially speaking and was also expansionist. As to people being confused with the changes to the traits well we already have changed the Industrious trait and I think that most people who will use this mod find that the Vanilla Traits are off so should welcome the actual changes but you are right that most people don't read much about the stuff before using it so It should come as a pleasant surprise then.

To address the addition of other Civ's/leaders......

Well we will look into them for a future releases but I do know that we will only add those that are animated and not to cheesy. We want to keep this Mod up to a particular Quality though those of you who like the static leader heads are more than welcome to use the changes that Hawkwood has done. We might even add that to the Mod as an optional add-in though don't count that as a promise as I have to see how the others feel about it.

 

[Nightravn]

These are the changes to the Leader Traits that I am purposing.....

First there has been a swap of Expansionist and Organizational trait names ie Expansionist now has Maintance cost Reduced and Organization has the added Health. on to the list.....




Any Questions?

 

[Los Tirano]

Sounds fine to me. Spain can ALWAYS use a bigger empire.
Bismarck sounds alright.

 

[Mexico]

To address the addition of other Civ's/leaders......

Well we will look into them for a future releases but I do know that we will only add those that are animated and not to cheesy. We want to keep this Mod up to a particular Quality though those of you who like the static leader heads are more than welcome to use the changes that Hawkwood has done. We might even add that to the Mod as an optional add-in though don't count that as a promise as I have to see how the others feel about it.

hmm...i cannot promise this, but i will try to make installer in future (maybe 2.1 version), where you can install this new static leaders as option....

As such, I would be far more inclined to have gunpowder units require the construction of a building (i.e. "Gunpowder Mill") for their creation, as opposed to linking them to a quasi-strategic resource. Maybe you could combine the ideas and have a special building produce "Gunpowder" as a resource? (Kind of like you already have the Fish Market WW produce the Tuna resource). You could make it a National Wonder, of even just a fairly expensive building (similar to a Factory in expense). Then you could even play geopolitical games by giving the Gunpowder tech and supplying the Gunpowder resource to the backward opponents of your closest rivals!

something similar was in first realism release (0.6 made by janusz) - there was somthing called gunsmith factory, which produce musket as resource for gunpowder unit...but this was normal building (like factory) -> each civ has too much musket resources .... but idea about "national wonder" ... hmm ... i agrre with this, but need to disscuss wirh team...maybe in future...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

These are the changes to the Leader Traits that I am purposing.....

First there has been a swap of Expansionist and Organizational trait names ie Expansionist now has Maintance cost Reduced and Organization has the added Health. on to the list.....

Any Questions?

You've lost Cre-Ind and Fin-Org trait combinations (though gained previously unused Phi-Ind), and you have two with Exp-Fin, Washington and Victoria - one of them better revert to Fin-Org.