[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[Houman]

@bovinespy We have to discuss the traits. To see what would suit which one. In general you are suggesting that those civs with dense population and the isolationists shall get Expasionist Trait as well?

Do not forget we gave the Settler and Scout +1 move to expansionist traits.

@zenspiderz

T34 shall be changed. We are open for new ideas since Soviet russians would have been killed if retreated, I think it is appropriate removing the Withdrawl and giving them more power.

T84 is a ukranian Tank, T72 is a Russian Tank. T84 has other advantages that you should know how to use in order to beat other tanks. Combat power is not everything.

Cossaks are not just more expensive. You assumed again more combat is the only real change. They have +25% vs Mounted Units.

Regards
Houman

 

[ImperialBritain]

This mod is a wonderful one, but...If you are making the Redcoats have Muskets, then you need the Redcoats with rifles to, so they can beat riflemen.

I suggest you re-colour the current riflemen so they are in red-coat suits, but you could also just use the current Redcoat models as well. I've attached some images of more modern Redcoats so you can add them, as we can't forget that the British redcoats were the most feared and most highly trained soldiers from 1700 to 1900! And then khaki was invented...(But the soldiers were still highly trained and feared!).

Thanks any way for the mod, as its jolly splendid, but if you sort out the redcoat's (and change the St. Georges flag to the Union Jack) then it will be even better!

Thanks, ImperialBritain


P.S I fogot to say that I think that you should mabye change the English leader model to a redcoat, and also could you make english workers look more British than egyption? Thanks.

 

[Serga]

Assassins are too powerfull... almost cheat. AI unable to use properly them.

From readme:
>>
Known "Bugs"

None, however, if you reload a saved game and have an assassin in an enemy city you will have to move it out and back in again before it will conduct a mission. Likewise, if you modifiy "Assassin.py" during a game you will have to move your assasins out and back in a city before they conduct a mission.

>>
its not a problem for a human player, but for AI.

I think they must be a National units (max 1 or 2), increased cost and lowered probability of successful mission.

 

[bovinespy]

Bovine - when I say switching the names I actually meant that the traits corresponding to them would be switched so those who have the expansionist trait would be the reduced maintance while those with organized would get the health bonus though they might need something else to help with this like maybe an extra happy to go along with the +3 health.

Hi Nightravn. OK - I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. My bad. That sounds great. Personally, I wouldn't worry about giving Organized an extra happy, as you can usually run Hereditary Rule by the time your cities start bumping up against the happiness limit (at least on Noble - not sure about the higher levels).

 

[Civ3_Pan]

I think a lot of folks have felt that they misnamed the Expansionist and Organized traits when Civ 4 came out. To a lot of us, it makes no sense to call it 'expansionist' when they get more health in cities as that has no effect on how far the nation can expand. The only thing slowing down an expansionist nation in Civ 4 is maintaining the corruption and cost for the cities, which is where the Organized trait comes in. I suppose one could say that the Organized name is okay or at least would work but the word 'Expansionist' simply fits it better.

Basically, I'm just agreeing with the cow here and pointing out that its not a fault of this mod in any way...it's with Civ 4. However, if you're going realistic with this mod, perhaps changing the names around would be more realistic and then perhaps taking another look at which nations have which trait.

 

[bovinespy]

@bovinespy We have to discuss the traits. To see what would suit which one. In general you are suggesting that those civs with dense population and the isolationists shall get Expasionist Trait as well?

Do not forget we gave the Settler and Scout +1 move to expansionist traits.

Regards
Houman

Hi Houman. Wow - you and Nightravn are really on the ball! Well, since you asked my for my suggestion, I would do the following changes*:

Victoria -> remove Exp, add Org
Isabella -> remove Exp, add Org
Peter -> remove Exp, add Org
Cyrus -> remove Exp, add Org
Genghis -> remove Exp, add Org
Asoka -> remove Org, add Exp
Tokugawa -> remove Org, add Exp
Mao -> remove Org, add Exp

As far as Bismarck (Exp/Ind), I don't think he really "deserves" to have Org, but on the other hand, I don't know if Exp really fits, either. (I know Germany had many large cities, such as Berlin, Hamburg, and Munch during his tenure, but German cities never reached the population levels of London, Paris, or Moscow at that time, AFAIK.) I might be tempted to pick another trait than Exp or Org (maybe Agg?), but if I had to choose, I think that I'd take Exp.

As far as Roosevelt (Org/Ind) and Washington (Org/Fin), while the USA never had large overseas or extraterritorial holdings, it is currently the 3rd largest country in the world, so I guess that Org is fairly appropriate for them.

As far as isolationist tendencies for the "new" Exp leaders (Asoka, Mao, Tokugawa, Bismarck?), I would make only Mao and Toku isolationist in game terms (i.e. not signing Open Border agreements).

Of course, when playing your Earth map, Victoria, Peter, and Mao aren't in the game, anyways. But I guess for those playing random maps...

Anyway, thanks for asking my opinion. I'll keep posted for updates!

Oh - and I did forget about the extra moves for Exp settlers/scouts. Of course, I'm still on my 1st game as England...

*When referring to Exp and Org, I mean their current usage (i.e. Exp = health; Org = low upkeep).

 

[Nightravn]

As Innocence suggested I think it would be much easier to just switch the effects of the Expansionist and Organized traits for what you purpose. That way we only have to actually change a couple of the leaders traits like give Washington and Ceaser the Expansive trait instead of organized. Roosevelt can stay organized as he wasn't really responsible for the expansion of the country but more in line with the build up after the Great Depression. For Bismark, I would say then to give him the organized trait as he did unify the Germany Confederacy and help it grow into a powerful state but wasn't really Imperialistic.

 

[Raize]

For Washington & Roosevelt you might consider Militaristic instead of Org. All political rhetoric aside, the USA's primary means of getting so large was through military conquest and the Louisiana Purchase. Without beating people up, the USA would only be the East Coast & the Midwest. The South would be its own country, and the West/Mountains would still be part of Mexico... Besides, I believe Roosevelt and Washington were both military leaders before they became politicians.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Well, as far as some requests for those have been sounded, I'm posting a Civ Leader mod component for Realism 2.0.

It includes several new leaders (at least one for every civ; most now have 3), and a static leaderhead for everyone, including stock ones. This might be useful for those with slow PCs or for those who don't like Firaxis cartoon-style 3d leadeheads (like me ), and desire to have more varied leaders. Every new leader has an AI scripted to match him, with flavors and stuff (though most are pretty moderate - I might change some to more psychotic and unbalanced in future releases ), but without pedia entries. This should be extracted to Total Realism directory.

Be sure to backup XML directory if you want to easily revert back (art directory doesn't overwrite anything). Also be warned that this version is compatible only with current version of the mod. As patches are released, I'll be making new versions, if there's a demand.

Feel free to report any bugs you encounter or suggestions on improving this either here or by PMing me. I might easily miss something - and I'll be fixing it as soon as I can.

File is uploaded to Rapidshare (too large for attachments - ~8Mb) - there should be no serious trouble retrieving it.

Enjoy.

http://rapidshare.de/files/22979308/Leaderpack_for_Realism_v2.00.rar.html

 

[rumbold]

Besides, I believe Roosevelt and Washington were both military leaders before they became politicians.

Gen. Washington was, of course, but Roosevelt was not in the military as far as I'm aware. I guess he was a military leader because he was Commander in Chief, but I don't think he reflects the "Aggressive" trait. As I understand it, he only joined WWII with Pearl Harbor, not just because he wanted a fight.

So I think Roosevelt's traits are fine - but Washington might be more accurate as Aggressive instead of Financial.

 

[Spartan117]

Assassins are too powerfull... almost cheat. AI unable to use properly them.

From readme:
>>
Known "Bugs"

None, however, if you reload a saved game and have an assassin in an enemy city you will have to move it out and back in again before it will conduct a mission. Likewise, if you modifiy "Assassin.py" during a game you will have to move your assasins out and back in a city before they conduct a mission.

>>
its not a problem for a human player, but for AI.

I think they must be a National units (max 1 or 2), increased cost and lowered probability of successful mission.

what he said

i am nearing the modern age, yay

notice that mines till need to be worked out a bit

i really like the flow of the game it seems as if i could use all units without them being outdated quickly..and the counters for every unit are excellent that i noticed: what about adding more bonuses to world war 1 tanks..like vs. melee

i love the the created generals from combat..what a great addition to the game...

 

[Nightravn]

I disagree with Washington being militaristic/aggressive as he was more of a reactionary fighter than one who set out to conquer by force. I think the modified expansionist trait is more in line with him.

Houman, I say leave the extra movement for scouts and settlers in for the modified Expansionist(ie organized) trait and give a +1 happy , with its already +3 health, to the Organized Trait to help grow that CIV's cities a little bit bigger than others.

 

[carnivore]

I have tried to start the game in world map , the thing is IT'S TOO SLOW !!
it takes hours to progress , you just click enter for an hour !
i takes the fun from the game , you must change it !
make it more fast , let us chance the pace of the game , but please , this mod is the best i have senn in a while , but i canoot play it like it should , cous i can't run ot on other scenarios and in the world map it's soo slow
i really hope maps compatibale with this mod will be out soon , but a tweak must be made

thanx

 

[Houman]

Because of lack of time, I will keep it short, sorry guys:

1) I would like to mention that the whole team is working hard to release a nice patch for this weekend. While Nightravn and I are working on Design issues and balancing mostly done in XML, are Mexico and 12M working very hard on the Performance and Python Bug fixing. They did a great job and soon when the Patch details are released you will read for yourself how much faster the game will become.

2) Please consider the fact that we are not discussing new ideas for this week, since we are focusing on the patch. No new features but only fixes and improvements of available code. The suggestions below will be included in the coming patch:

- I need to talk to the team what they think of making Assassins as National Units (max 3-5 maybe?)

- Changing the Organized and Expansionst Trait makes very much sense. The only problem as Nightravn already mentioned would be that after the swap the old Organized Trait would get the +1 Move for Settlers and Scouts. And the poor old expansionist trait would have nothing but the lousy 3 health. I would like to ask Mexico if is able to program +1 happiness for the old expansionist trait.

The old organized trait shall keep the +1 move for settlers and scouts? Makes sense as new expansionist to see whats around you...

- WW1 Tanks might have not enough bonuses against Archers and Melee. I might have forgotten that. But they have no bonus against Mounted on purpose. I will double check it. If there are other bonuses missing that are included in similiar unit types please report them.

And as always, see post 1 or post 4 (FAQ) posting the bugs into the Bug tracker is easier for us to follow and fix the bugs. Here in forum, it might get chaotic and we forget a suggestion. Propose your suggestion in there as a general rule and we think about it. Of course you are free to discuss this here openly as well.

Thanks
Houman

 

[kflorian]

This is remarkable work. I’ve only been playing Civ since Civ4 was released. This is the only pc ‘game’ other than SimCity and Flight Simulator that I’ve ever played more than a couple of times.

1. The most appealing aspect of Realism 2.0 are the various interface mods….the way unit stacks are displayed on the main screen, F1, F5, and F12 advisor screens....The layout of civilopedia…all superior information designs!


2. I am uncertain as to whether I want to adopt, in total, the many structural modifications…new units, “new math” etc….still thinking about that. It is appealing because of the increased richness but it also adds complexity to a game which I will never win on deity! I don’t know....I’m trying it out and, even if I don't continue to play it, still applaud and recognize the extraordinary work this mod set represents!

3. Which leads to the packaging request….I welcome (and would happily pay for) the set of interface mods mentioned above and leave out, or make optional the entire set of mods related to the math, promotions, units…everything else. A welcome option would be three major choices: Install:
graphical upgrades
and/or
new game play
and/or
new interface controls.

It is well beyond my current ability to extract only the parts I might want from this superior package of mods.

4. Feature request: on the F5, Military Advisor screen it would be more than cool to be able to peruse the list of available units…select 1 or more into a group and, from that screen, issue a goto command. This is among the most useful things I could imagine....As I learn how to manage greater numbers of units effectively I often spend a great deal of time bouncing around my cities locating just the right unit to add to a specific stack or location. Particulary with the many additional promotions in Realism 2.0...a feature like this is very helpful.

Congratulations on fine work.

Ken

 

[mgdpublic]

HELP! Ok I deleted my cache, restarted my computer, and renamed my custom assets folder to something else. When I start the game however, there is no in-game gui. And when I click on "options" nothing happens. Can anyone help me with this?

 

[Spartan117]

i found a bug and dont know how to report so i wiill say it here

i know world war 1 tanks arent meant to take over a city

i took out every enemy unit in the city with a group of these tanks i didnt realize they had no more and still tried to attack then the game shut down and siad there was an error and whether i wanted to send report to microsoft...

although this might not be a serious bug becasue it does say WW1 tanks cant take over cities so most people will not even attempt..

 

[Los Tirano]

Perhaps civs should be limited to five assassins, but i dont see the problem. They can only be built from your capital and already require your main city to devote attention to them. I say ignore the complaining people. If they dont like being assassinated they should develop assassins of their own or use the ninja's of japan to see enemy assassins.

 

[Serga]

Perhaps civs should be limited to five assassins, but i dont see the problem. They can only be built from your capital and already require your main city to devote attention to them. I say ignore the complaining people. If they dont like being assassinated they should develop assassins of their own or use the ninja's of japan to see enemy assassins.

Assassins is a BIG problem for realism.
In my game i have 8 assassins and it is possible to make all cities rioting in neighbor civ in a single turn. It drop down civ borders, stoping their factories. If i see assassin that in my territory i cant to expel him.
I have not examples of that in real world so i cant name it "realism".

 

[Los Tirano]

Here are two real world examples of assassins causing absolute chaos in multiple cities. One from the modern era, one from medieval.

First, central and south america. Just looking at Nicaragua in the 1980's. The contras which were financed and trained by the CIA, functioned exactly like the assassins in this mod. Leaders were assassinated, innocent people were killed and this led to unrest and chaos throughout the country. It greatly impeded the social reforms of Sandanistas. The contras avoided attacking the military and focused upon civilian targets, just like the assassins in the mod.

Next, the middle east, drawing attention to the original assassins, the Hashashiyyin, or followers of Hasan bin Sabbah, active during 1090-1275AD. The chaos these assassins caused during this time is exemplary, and they didnt just kill crusaders either, but notable muslims as well. They made the holy land a very dangerous place indeed. They had their own fortress (Alamut) and even once it was destroyed they werent entirely wiped out.

So, if you want to spend numerous turns creating a serious number of assassins, and then initiating sustained unrest in a neighbour, this is historically not unrealistic.


And if you see an assassin in your borders, declare war. That would be a realistic reaction. He wont be able to defeat a single archer and attack your cities.