[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[Anaztazioch]

And mayby crating some sort of Olympic Stadium or Football(soccer) stadium in modern ages, as Colosseus should get obsolated by Liberalism, Emancypation or Democracy.

 

[Chamrin]

Hi Guys,
Anyway because of recent events I felt my signature needed to be extended by three more links. Feel free to watch them or not.
Cheers
Houmie

Your 4th, link I actually learned something from, and read a little bit more about when the first conflicts started in that area in the modern world. Jewish/Arab fighting has been happening for only 150 years.

The 5th and 6th link however, don't really contribute anything. The guy in the 5th link is just totally biased. "Israel abducted 2 people, we don't know who they are". If you don't know who they are, then how do you know they are missing? Find some family members who know them, get some facts, don't just try to put an aura of fear because "we don't know anything about what israel has".

Then 6th link does nothing. Innocent people have died on both sides, showing endless pictures of mutulated bodies doesn't change that, it's only meant to shock people into agreeing with the message the video represents, and that a totatally biased message. It doesn't even mention that a terrorist group has thousands of rockets, and is launching them, and hitting mostly civilian targets (if they hit at all). Both sides need to stop, but I don't see how that is giong to happen currently.

Sorry to be off topic with this, but I wanted to say something as I do resent the sentiment that "americans are stupid". You should know that fox news is not representative of america.

Cham

 

[Los Tirano]

I too am not interested in warlords until this is compatible. This is far more dynamic. I checked your new signature links Houman, certainly worthy of being included if a bit shocking. Criticisms of bias can be easily levelled at your sources. But since it is showing scenes and views that are thoroughly glossed over by the mainstream media i think they are good links to add to your signature.

My question to Chamrin is, are the views of Fox news totally unrepresented in the American population? So no Americans think like that? And if you could ascertain how many do, what would be the rough figure? It is the news channel watched by a large segment, especially during crisis (9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq war build-up and during). If no-one watched them or agreed with them, the wouldnt be there.

 

[Zharahk]

It seems I can only access one of your links. It is most likely becuase I am currently living in China. The one link I could access was about how America is becoming a facist state... which is some of the most ignorant anti-American blathering I have ever seen. After living in the People's Republic of China for awhile now I can assure you that the US is not even coming close to being a police state.

I am not sure what the videos are (they are censored here), but after seeing how Rueters, AP, BBC, New York Times, etc... have been using faked photos and staged videos created by hizballah I am not sure I would trust the authenticity (try a web search for fauxtography).

Maybe you can add some news service or news building to the mod... increases happiness and commerce, lowers science and war weariness.

News businesses are businesses. They all have something to sell... news, views, opionions, etc... I also thought it was funny that you think that people who watch Fox News all think the same and believe everything that is reported there... sounds like a pretty black and white attitude.

 

[Los Tirano]

@ Zharahk. I did not say all people who watch fox news think the same. You are jumping to conclusions. I have watched fox news and i did not internalise their opinions. Views and the manufacturing of consent is a complex topic. What i am on about is media influence, and the gradual subtle manipulation and presentation of only one side until you hold a certain view, and back or tolerate government action.

So when a news channel puts the view across that going to war against the new enemy is a good idea, that there are reasons for it. And after a serious campaign of media persuasion, a significant percentage of the population gradually comes to agree with said view and the reasons behind it, I consider the effects of the media over time, proven.

This is not to say that i think all those who agree, agree completely and without reservation. Just as i dont think everyone who watches fox news becomes a puppet. But people who largely rely on it have been 'educated' to a new viewpoint.

@Team, more building options might be a good idea. A mini colossus dubbed the "great statue of the leader" may be a good idea. Leaders have long made statues of themselves. An especially good idea if you have a large powerful empire. Cheerio.

 

[Fr8monkey]

Has anyone seen Dale's Combat Mod?

Looks promising as an addon. It includes:
- Ranged field bombardment (land and naval)
- Stacked combat with combined arms
- Missiles and tactical nuke units
- MAD for nukes (mutually assured destruction)

 

[Uncle Anton]

@ Zharahk. I did not say all people who watch fox news think the same. You are jumping to conclusions. I have watched fox news and i did not internalise their opinions. Views and the manufacturing of consent is a complex topic. What i am on about is media influence, and the gradual subtle manipulation and presentation of only one side until you hold a certain view, and back or tolerate government action.

So when a news channel puts the view across that going to war against the new enemy is a good idea, that there are reasons for it. And after a serious campaign of media persuasion, a significant percentage of the population gradually comes to agree with said view and the reasons behind it, I consider the effects of the media over time, proven.

This is not to say that i think all those who agree, agree completely and without reservation. Just as i dont think everyone who watches fox news becomes a puppet. But people who largely rely on it have been 'educated' to a new viewpoint.

@Team, more building options might be a good idea. A mini colossus dubbed the "great statue of the leader" may be a good idea. Leaders have long made statues of themselves. An especially good idea if you have a large powerful empire. Cheerio.

Various Media outlets are always going to push their own agenda. Anyways boys, Suggest we keep this on-topic or move the conversation to a general discussion thread.

PS Moderation is the order of the day....

 

[Orion43]

It was fun. I played as the English and won a cultural victory with 7 turns left. The key to becoming powerful with the English was to quickly learn sailing so my second city I put on the continent west of Paris before Napoleon expanded there. After putting a city in what would be Scotland, and another in Ireland, I moved on to what would be Norway. After gaining control of most of Scandanavia, I went on to Iceland, Greenland, and then onto North America. This was made easier since the barbs killed off Washington.

I liked the gameplay and the extra resources. The tech tree for the most part was better than the vanilla.

A couple of things that bothered me though. First was the mercenaries. I never used them, though I liked the inclusion of them. However, the AI got a hold of some mercs before their time. Like, a tank unit or an rpg unit long before any civ got the appropriate resources and tech.

Second, the tech tree seemed a little long. I finished the game 7 turns til the end and I had just gotten combustion and working on artillery, and I was in the lead with the tech.

Lastly, the barbs seemed a little too strong, especially at the end. In the first part of the game, the Americans, Inca, Indians, and Egypt were killed off rather early. That's not too much of a big deal. I could see that happening.
I had no trouble taking out some barb cities early on, like when I invaded Scandanavia. However, the AI seemed to have trouble doing this. They repeatedly sent weak forces against barb cities that were way to powerful.

This was worst near the end game. Most of the world was settled except South America and Australia. The barbs on these continents were so powerful, one would have had send a very big force just to settle and defend one city. In South America, the barbs had a roving stack of some 12-15 trebuchets. Their cities were stacked with bucko defenders. I decided it wasn't worth the effort and waste to go into there. The AI was hopeless trying to settle cities there. They lasted no more than a few turns.

All in all, I enjoyed the mod a lot. I see no reason to buy Warlords while I'm fun with this.

 

[Los Tirano]

Hmmm. Australia as a bastion of barbarian cities. Its because of those few barb cities placed right at the start, and no enemies. In reality there were no aboriginal cities and no units above what you would call a warrior and scouts, but ive said this before. Got any screens of impenetrable south america orion?

 

[Houman]

@crismac

Thanks dude. We are trying our best. TR Warlords is now under an own repository: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/civ4mods/trunk/civ4.mod.realism/src/mod/TR_Warlords
So the conversion is going great forward.

@Anaztazioch
I suppose you are playing a simpler difficulty level than Noble, am I right? We really should skip everything underneath Noble in the next patch.

@Chamrin
I am surprised you don't know the guy from the 5th link. He is Noam Chompsky, one of the greatest American scholars. Between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar, and the eighth most cited scholar overall. He is not just a "guy" but a true expert on middle east with a lot connection to what is really happening behind the iron curtains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
http://www.chomsky.info/

As I already said I don't sympatize with Hizbollah and hope that they can be stopped. The media is talking about 1:10 kill rate sofar. The real numbers are much higher, since no one in Lebanon has the power to search and find all the corpses in the collapsed buildings. Look at those buildings, do you really think only 1000 Lebanese civilians died so far? The way that Israel has chosen is in my point of view genocide. All that will not end the Israel Palestine conflict, because the root of the problem is somewhere else. I know that and you know that...

@Los Tiranos
This is exactly what I think. Show people all sides of the coin and let them decide. Western media censors the information flow too. It is not just the east.

@Zharahk
Welcome to the community! I didn't know someone from China is playing our Mod. I am glad and hope you like the new units for China. Regarding your comments, I hope truly not that USA become a facist state. The problem in todays' generation is that everything is too convient and everything is already there. Young people in the Western countries didn't have to fight for democracy and freedom of speech. It is already there, so why bother? IPODs and PSPs are much more interesting. The 68 Generation in the Western society was not like that, however today everything is taken for granted and the governments do what they want to do. American politic is for example totally controlled by the economy. The companies run the country not the people anymore. I agree with you on the point that neither do I thrust any governtment in this world. Doesn't matter if it is calling it self "Democratic" or not.

@Fr8monkey
I just said in my previous posting that it is already included for the next patch and needs just more testing. Jesus read the posts!!!

@Orion43
Very interestig report. May you please report the difficulty level you had chosen? Maybe we need to add more turns or to make techs a nit cheaper in general...
Regarding your last line, dude don't say that. Firaxis is already sending us hate-letters. Just kidding. Thanks mate. Actually I think once this Mod is War lord compaible, it will rock. There will be lots of little new things. Stay tuned...

@Los you are right. The map will be reworked again. Maybe it is better to remove the cities in Australia.

Cheers
Holmes

 

[Orion43]

This was on Warlord difficulty, with agggresive barbarian set. The barbs in South America were helped in that they axed the Incas early on and pushed the Aztecs up north and out of Mexico. Here's some screens. I had to shrink them down quite a bit to fit the file sizes, so they're quite blurry.

 

[Anaztazioch]

i win by conqer as Rome on noble World map whith cites. Was easier than i tought. I just left Rome and went for tribal huts... each one gave me a warrior... so it was easy to kill Franch and Spanians. Germany died by Russia and Russia by barbs... Greece took Assyria, rushed bronze working, adopted slavary and it was last think alexander did... lol... Saladin was killed next, i had archers back than and still only Rome and Mecca witch i have conqared be4 killed Medina last Arabian city. Egypt died by barbs and Mali by slaves... I got writing and made India declare war on Persia and Gengis declare war on India. Waited till Persian army left country and invaded them razing all, Gengis killed India thankfully razing all exept Delhi witch was razed by Gengises slaves, when my chariots rushed for Karakorum, when i destroyed Karakorum he converted to Buddizm funded by Chaina, so it was very easy to raze all his cities, Chaina had early war whith Mongols as only Shanghai was their only city and Beijing was under rule of Gengis and later my flames. Japan put a threat... I had no city exept Rome,Mecca,Thebes and Madrid so i had to go navy all around the world to get em. Godd enough i got many money and free tech from caputing cities, and got like stack of 20 gallays having swordsmans and archers and Japan had Kyoto, Tokyo, Osaka, Satsuma, Edo. Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo on main island was quit to destroy, exept Tokyo witch i saved . Satsuma was north to Japan main islands(island in TRWM). Edo was in Australia captured by barbs. I lost Mecca to barbs and got defanding against barbs resatrching Optics and rushing Currency, ALphabeth and all the way to Astronomy. Whith caravel oi learned that America is sorrounded by barbarian cities (Illoins, New York, the other barb, Philadelphia, and Atalanta) and had only Washington unimprooved as barb galleys were pillaging fishing boats. Aztecs lost Teotihuacan (ruins) not sure to who. and had real problems whith slavary. Hyana Capas had only Cuzco and mad stack of Warriors and archers (i had Mujahids, resarched and adopted islam) and tried to capture Axeman defanded Kaypo... So after resarching Astonomy i had to build galleons, so i decided to make Montezuma attack Incas, manages couse Aztec went Judaism and Incas Hynduism (had to go poganism). Aztec army left their cities and it was too easy to take and raze 6 aztec cities , Cuzco was next in line. When i decided to go for America they were destroyed aither by barbs or by slaves as he adopted slavary ... Too easy like spawn camp whith nano 5 ua 5 and jp in natural-selection

 

[Anaztazioch]

I suppose you are playing a simpler difficulty level than Noble, am I right?

i said Regardless of dif. (dif. was a short for difficulty)
I played as Settler on vanila and had gundpowder units vs spearmans...
On Total Realism i never played on easier than noble exept to check if some barbarian behaviour happens on easier levels as well, and that was whith mad using world builder. On Noble its a bit too easy, im allways atleast 200 points away from next civ, and in renesans im like 50% better than next one. Usually play on Monarch/Emperror but goes when Greece,French and Germany declears a war vs my Rome the time i reach triball hut north of Rome

But Since im playing emperror and mosly on Total Realism Cities Map, 1st thing im doing is putting Castle in every barbarian city + spamin barb cities in all tribal huts in Australia, Tasmania, New Zeland and building Stickholm and one to north, but 1 grid east from tribal hut. So that AI wont conquer barbarian cities... Exept for Nubia witch i delate. Egypt has only Thebes and city build east on crossing to Arabia that has some more shields than 2 till scientefic method and refining.

Ow and TR team, why when im "slave master" (lack of more accurate word) i get slave rebelion in random city every turn, and its usually 3 units ??? I got Heridary Rule and 2 archers, 2 spearmans, 1 axeman and 1 swordsman (if available) in each city garnizon + each city builds 5 mounted units, so maintanance is killing me till banking and code of laws.

Now i have a 3 hour break from Civ 4 and gonna kip it up... till realease of new TR patch... so make hast couse im getting bored so easly

 

[Anaztazioch]

and Houman i also said this "And why i resarch Divine Right (to get Mujahids) and enter middle ages in (warning - spoiler) 240 bc in diety on premade map !!!"

I like to play early economics on hard difficulties and pray to have peace.When war is declared uppon me im dead... or atleast load autosave

 

[Anaztazioch]

in earlier post i meant just Total realism wordmap not cites map !

 

[Nightravn]

If you play below noble then the AI as a really hard time with the Barbs so I recommend at least noble but preferably prince or monarch. It really doesn't matter if there is no cities in Australia as the Barbs will still settle them anyways.

I have modified The World map to reduce some of the Barb cities to help alleviate some of the pressure on the AI Civs. It will be in the next release.

 

[Uncle Anton]

Hmmm. Australia as a bastion of barbarian cities.

Hehehe

And not much has changed....

@ Night: Thanks for the Barb Fix dude. Like I said, great idea... just the barbs are a bit powerful for the AI... especially the ones spawned in Africa or South America...

 

[Los Tirano]

Good joke Anton . I guess since your a western australian you could say the eastern cities are all thieving barbarian scum!




Hey Aton, earlier this week the quote came up that "Australia is a pimple on the arse of the world". I almost burst out laughing at that. It just sounds so accurate to me, and amusing.

 

[Uncle Anton]

If there's a bright centre to the universe, I'm the pimple on the buttcheek that it's furthest from.

Stupid question time. It's already been well stated that Warlords compatibility is being worked on....

Will Warlords be required tho?

 

[Houman]

Hey I was on a Kiwi & Oz Party last night. Your girls are hot!

Regarding the Warlord conversion. There is lots of new resources coming with warlords. They have implemented Cotton. So I guess we throw our old good cotton from Total Realism away. While doing that it reminded me of someone criticizing Tuna and Book resources since they can be only produced with a Wonder (Fish Market & another one)

After a seconf though we should maybe remove these resources as well. Books can be produced by every nation and it doesn't require a wonder for that. Neither is it the case with Tuna fish. All sort of Fish can be traded in cans and should not be limited to a wonder. (in Game you can actually trade fish)

So what is your opinion, shall we remove these two ressources?

@Uncle Anton,

Yeah unfortunatelly, once TR is warlord compatible, you require Warlord as well. Thats why we still bring a last patch for vanilla Civ4, for those that don't have the money for the expansion yet.

Houmie