[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[WarKirby]

I think the minuteman was a mistake in the first place. It was supposed to replace musketman, not rifleman.

As to my earlier post, would it not be better to simply add a new walls. 'Modern walls' would get the defensive bonus regardless of what the attacker is.

 

[Tunguska]

Can't think of a lot of cities with "modern" citywalls.
AA Guns, Bunkers ok, but "modern walls"...

 

[alms66]

There's nothing wrong with someone who wants to be thorough. To make clear what he is replying to.

It's called overkill.

 

[Spartan117]

Did you really have to quote that entire post to write that? Considering your post was the very next one? Hmmmm... I think not.

I had to so that i wont forget what i am responding to...silly


@uncle Anton

yea biplanes and all airplane system probably needs to be reworked
( i mentioned here somewhere earlier)

America without riflemen is a mistake and will likely be fixed on the next release

@realism team

did any of you play warlord game, i just got it, the units in the scenarios look great..eurasia ethnic units look amazing in the genghis khan scenario

from spearmen, horsemen..looks great if there is to be a last patch before changing to warlords..what about adding these to the realism mod

 

[Mexico]

@spartan117
yes, i was played warlords, but short time - found some inspiration for non-warlords version of mod too

i don't know what houman planed, but i think that at first we release ver 2.1 for vanilla civ and then port this to warlords

@Anaztazioch
heh..yes, 2day without post - never seen this before

about 1000ad map: i tried update this (map/scenario include buildings/units which is not avaliable in mod - maybe this is reason of crash), but my comp was crashed again , so now i must wait for new hdd and then reinstall/restore all data, but all my last 2 week work on mod is out , i must start again (flying mod, stack aid update, 1000ad map update and much more )

 

[Spartan117]

about 1000ad map: i tried update this (map/scenario include buildings/units which is not avaliable in mod - maybe this is reason of crash), but my comp was crashed again , so now i must wait for new hdd and then reinstall/restore all data, but all my last 2 week work on mod is out , i must start again (flying mod, stack aid update, 1000ad map update and much more )

thats bad luck, and i dont seem to have any problems playing 1000AD with the realism mod or any scenarios that are made for vanilla (excluding the scenarios that need other mods)

 

[rebsiot]

Can't think of a lot of cities with "modern" citywalls.
AA Guns, Bunkers ok, but "modern walls"...

I guess this brings up a good idea that I haven't seen elsewhere in the Realism mod thread... Wouldn't it make more sense to create a "building" called "Civil Defenses" or "Civil Defense Warning System" (with Radio so that people can use them more effectively) after Gunpowder. You could also make the warning system have to be built first if you wanted to make it a 2 step process. The warning system could even make air raid shelters more effective. Maybe after Steam Power or Combustion when moving massive amounts of dirt are possible, or even Steel, when tools could be used more effectively. (I realize that effective trenches and such were built in WWI and even earlier, but building a city defense for a large city would require an enormous amount of work...)

I realize this is a bit of stream of consciousness, but I wanted to get the idea out there, if someone can a) apply reality (history) to this idea (someone could have suggested it elsewhere) and b) put it in a clear context/framework I'd greatly appreciate it.

Hell, after figuring out all of that stuff, maybe even I could try to write it.... I can really program, but not in python/script.

Rick/Rebsiot

<silly signature begins here>

Knowledge vs. Wisdom...

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. - Confucius or Aristotle (attributed to both)

To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. - Confucius (quoted by Thoreau)

SO.. Having true knowledge and wisdom requires that you both know that you know nothing while also knowing that you don't know anything. (I guess)

<end silly signature>

 

[Los Tirano]

An added component allowing the changing of your civs colour in game would be a great option. The interactive box displaying the current colour could be put next to some of the other clickable things in game.

If you adopt state property you can then change your colour to red!

What do you guys think?

 

[Yavrim]

Hi Houman,

Fantastic mod by the way, many of the ideas I have been thinking about are all here already. Very well thought out!

Can I make a couple of suggestions- feel free to shoot me down if anyone disagrees with anything I suggest ....

1. Early in the game, without copper/iron civs are at a serious disadvantage, even when just trying to defend themselves. you have no anti cav unit (spearman) and no noteworthy melee unit (until iron working discovered later). Have you thought of possibly removing copper requirement for the spearman. This I think will give a noticible improvement in defensive capability to poorly resourced civs.

2. Regarding the Phalanx... I believe the Phalanx(actually I agree with a previous comment of hoplite being a better title to these units) at the time was more like heavy infantry (ie axeman) than simply just a better spearman. Might I suggest that the Phalanx should replace the axeman instead of spearman. Get rid of the bonus to archers in def, and keep the melee bonus instead. this would mean no more kopis warrior though but I think in reality they were both an axeman and spearman in one (ie heavy inf/anti cav unit). If the previous change to spearmen is applied you then still have geece being able to produce a melee unit(other that warriors in the very early game) without access to copper/iron. I remember this happened to me quite often in vanilla civ and found it a huge disadvantage to me, and fairly irritating.

3. Can walls be made so as to apply a penalty to cavalry attacking a walled city? I think this is quite realistic, as cavalry would be fairly useless by themselves against walled defenses. Melee units then become far more important in assaulting cities, as I think was the case in reality- well, until the walls were brought down.

Im not sure if these concepts have been covered before so apologies if they have.

 

[WarKirby]

Yeah, Cavalry should have a city attack penalty

 

[Los Tirano]

Well i disagree. Are you trying to say that the phalanx unit, which were well trained spearmen that used a specific formation, were not actually spearmen. They were axemen, even though their primary weapon was spears?

To your point about cvis being at a disadvantage because they dont have copper/iron. To that i say if they dont have the bronze or iron they obviously cant make units that use a lot of these metals (spear tips, shields, armour, swords). If they dont have it, they dont have it. Moreover, they should have got it, and can get it through good diplomacy.

Next cavalry, many have said they wouldnt be able to breach the walls. they are on horses. To that i say they could dismount and attack the city as elite infrantry. Knights and conquistadors did exactly this when the need arose. And have had historic incidents of great success. Secondly, city defence represents the ability of the city defences to keep an enemy out. Now an invading army makes breachs, saps, blows holes in the walls with catapaults. So if infrantry can get in a breach, cavalry can too. And cavalry riding through the streets is very dangerous and detrimental to any units (Rome anyone?). So i dont think they would be so terrible at attacking cities, as everyone says. Nor should they be changed.

With all the things already in favour of city defence, we should not make it any harder on the attacker.

 

[Yavrim]

Hi Los Tirano,

Yes, the phalanx(hoplites) unit carried spears, but they were also the heavy infantry of the greek states. I think the whole heavy infantry concept is what the axeman represents; I dont think all heavy infantry of this era used axes as their promary weapon. what I guess Im saying is that the hoplite performed this dual role extremely well. They were exceptional against mounted units as well as against foot units. The spear man at least in civ 4 seems to me based more so as a light infantry unit specifically focused on cavalry - thats where its capability really ends. This is why I made this suggestion.

Cavalry and Walls. Yes, cavalry can dismount and fight on foot, but much of their advantage is lost (while the walls remain). Remember that a unit of cavalry usually contains much less numbers than an infantry unit and despite their superior training any less populated force is going to be at a significant disadvantage against a fortrified defence constisting of stone walls. Yes, knocking down the defenses with siege equipment definately makes an impact, but this is not the cavalry's role in siege warfare. As you said we have catapults etc for this. This is why I specifically said this penalty should occur with the presence of walls, not within cities themselves.

I agree with you about the defence being difficult to breach; a bit of thought would be required to get the balance right on this one.

cont..

 

[Yavrim]

cont...

I know where you are coming from with the copper/iron comment. But to me it seems that this is the very reason why the hyapist for example has been introduced- to add a unit thats capable of defensive duties against stronger 'resource-hungry' units. As an offensive unit the hyapist doesnt cut it, especially when its up against swordsmen and axemen(and rightly so). I think that when you have no access to iron/copper resources then fair enough your offensive capabilities should be severly limited, but you should still have some defensive capability, not just for your cities, but for your territory. This is why I suggested spearmen not require copper/iron. So when your territory tiles are being plundered by cavalry(what cavalry does best) you do have some ability to defend yourself.

Just my opinions ofcourse. Your quite right though, a balance between realism and gamebalance needs to be maintained, so realism isnt always the best option.

 

[Spartan117]

Hi Los Tirano,

Yes, the phalanx(hoplites) unit carried spears, but they were also the heavy infantry of the greek states. I think the whole heavy infantry concept is what the axeman represents; I dont think all heavy infantry of this era used axes as their promary weapon. what I guess Im saying is that the hoplite performed this dual role extremely well. They were exceptional against mounted units as well as against foot units. The spear man at least in civ 4 seems to me based more so as a light infantry unit specifically focused on cavalry - thats where its capability really ends. This is why I made this suggestion.

QUOTE]

in realism mod didnt phalanxes, (the greek spearmen, not historically speaking) get a substantial boost against melee and such? i thought they did i havent played as them in a while.

 

[Prussia]

Is this compatible with Warlords?

 

[Anaztazioch]

lol

just "recived" best idea for Great Wonder : (Destruction of) Berlin Wall.

Gives 50% of pple rebel witch works same as barbarians, but starts lets say hith "rebel" promotion giving them -20%defance in all terrains, and - 20%attack, but 30% city attack. +2 great soldier.

I say its good, couse u can train troops by attacking these rebels

 

[Prussia]

lol

just "recived" best idea for Great Wonder : (Destruction of) Berlin Wall.

Gives 50% of pple rebel witch works same as barbarians, but starts lets say hith "rebel" promotion giving them -20%defance in all terrains, and - 20%attack, but 30% city attack. +2 great soldier.

I say its good, couse u can train troops by attacking these rebels

Depends on which side of the Berlin wall you are on

 

[purger30]

Hi

I have found a bug in the tech tree. It is about tech costs.
When I point mouse on some tech there is 9 turns to finish and when I click on that tech there is 4 turns. When I click on another tech in that "tech line" there is 9 turns for first tech.

 

[Anaztazioch]

Prussia

On 1st page it is said : (...)but start the vanilla Civ game and then load the mod from Advanced menu.
Btw use search and find out. it sure is faster than w8ting for reply to ur post.

Eother way answear to your question is simple and have 2 letters try and guess what is it

Yavrim - phalanx

Check, and learn, that Greek wasnt "united". There wasnt actually Greece, but Hellada, witch was more a Culture than a nation. They had city-nations, each was a bit differant. Sparta had their Hoplites, witch were "known" from their strength in Troy and war whith Persia. Hoplites carried a Javanelin and had light armor and some copper buckler.

Phalanx as more "tactical" army, forming them selfs in "U" letter and when enemy ran inside, their "U" was closing and sorrounding enemies giving them no retreat. Where doeas Phalanx come ? i dont know.

Athens was also a Navy force of Hellada, cant remeber much of it.
And as for their Companion Cavalary... Its more Macedonian than Greek unit, formed by Alexander in last was against Persia.

But the thing is that Hellada used them all, so in Civ4 u should be able to choose witch one u want, like Phalanx replacing axeman and Hoplite replacing spearman. Kpis warrior should replace greek hypaspist witch should go to Rome as roman hypaspist.

-----------------------

And something from me - Total Realism need this to be Total Realism

Alas for this games name.... Civilization... There are actually Northern European, Middle terrenian, Skandynavian/Cyverian, Arabian(arabs, Persia, India), African, Nomads(Mongolia), Middle Asian(Chinese, Japan, Khmers), American(Aztec, Inca) Civilizations.

Japan was actually formed in arround 1000 bc by Chinese settlers.
Germany dont know, but it was German wildmans that conqared Rome.
Russia, Poland, Czechy, Slowacja, Chorwacja, Rumunia are made from Slovan tribes.

What i mean is that u start as a "civilization" and depanding to your technologies resarch u will switch to a "nation". For instance, u go Greece when u will start as European or middle terenian and rush for 2 military technologies(for military trait) and writing (for phylosophical trait).

Whith a little luck and Blessing from all existing Gods u may release this as Total Realism 3.63 beta for Civilization 5

 

[Anaztazioch]

- purger30

Hi

I have found a bug in the tech tree. It is about tech costs.
When I point mouse on some tech there is 9 turns to finish and when I click on that tech there is 4 turns. When I click on another tech in that "tech line" there is 9 turns for first tech.

Well its not a bug. Its a feature. When u have Opened Boarders whith some Civ that has resarched lets say Iron Working, u get a +100% resarch bonus and +3 culture/turn in all cities as long as u are Resarching Iron Working. It work for AI as well.

But to make this work, u Must ahve Opened Boarders whith a Civ that know a technology u are curently resarching.

Hope I made my self clear