[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[bluepescadero]

I agree. Diplomatic model must be reworked.

I couldn't agree more. To be frank, the diplomacy model the guys from Firaxis have put together doesn't really meet the needs. I don't know if it is possible, but I have been thinking about a more dynamic diplomacy system. When the time for a peace treaty comes, you should be able to demand
a) certain resources
b) the delivery of certain units as reparations
c) the destruction of a certain class of units by the loser
d) demand that the loser stops to produce a certain unit for a certain amount of time or stops researching a certain technology
e) hands over research results
f) gives back a city captured from one of your allies
g) and so on

This is off the top of my head, but I would like to hear some opinions on this, please.

 

[julko]

I couldn't agree more. To be frank, the diplomacy model the guys from Firaxis have put together doesn't really meet the needs. I don't know if it is possible, but I have been thinking about a more dynamic diplomacy system.

I agree that diplomacy is weak in civs, but also one more thing i've missed in all civilizations-supply lines!! My suggestion is that if you want stay with army in enemy territory you must be supplied with food and equipment-you must connect your army to your trade web.
This should be done via new unit-supply wagon(SW) which can be connected
to trade web like regular cities(coast,rivers,roads) but when in enemy territory, it can connect from other connected friendly city or SW if standing next to it. So you can create supply chain through enemy territory from nearest connected spot to place where your army stands when you place SW at each plot along the way.
Unconnected army in enemy territory will suffer damage (and some penalties for each turn)(starving and out of munition etc.) This should open new tactical oportunities - supporting and/or destroing supply chains can be vital in any longterm conflict - just think about it...
BTW great mod, lot of fun, keep up good work

 

[Houman]

I agree that diplomacy is weak in civs, but also one more thing i've missed in all civilizations-supply lines!! My suggestion is that if you want stay with army in enemy territory you must be supplied with food and equipment-you must connect your army to your trade web.
This should be done via new unit-supply wagon(SW) which can be connected
to trade web like regular cities(coast,rivers,roads) but when in enemy territory, it can connect from other connected friendly city or SW if standing next to it. So you can create supply chain through enemy territory from nearest connected spot to place where your army stands when you place SW at each plot along the way.
Unconnected army in enemy territory will suffer damage (and some penalties for each turn)(starving and out of munition etc.) This should open new tactical oportunities - supporting and/or destroing supply chains can be vital in any longterm conflict - just think about it...
BTW great mod, lot of fun, keep up good work

Idea of Rise of Nations. very good game and good idea. The biggest problem is like always the AI.

Houmie

 

[julko]

Idea of Rise of Nations. very good game and good idea. The biggest problem is like always the AI.

Houmie

I've never played it. You are right, the AI is always problem which i often forget to think about. Maybe I'm wrong but if AI can manage workers, it should manage these supply wagons (maybe with some changes).

 

[Los Tirano]

Perhaps code it in so the harsher the war went, the more they demand for peace. Some leaders will be easier to please than others. So if it went badly for an AI's opponent, it really takes them to the cleaners in a variety of ways.

If it lost a number of units, it demands a few in return. If one unit in particular (or a leader) caused a lot of trouble and sacked towns, they want that unit disbanded. Yes, this has possibilities...

Come to think of it, the liquidation of leaders would be a great wish of a victorious side in a long war against an ideologically different opponent. For this i am thinking of the trial of the nazi leaders and upper echelon post WWII.

 

[WarKirby]

I would be good if the AI could be made more reasonable in what it will give you. When I'm fighting an AI opponent (and by fighting, i mean dominating) I like to ask for a city in return for letting them live. And I never get it.

And after I take that city by force, I demand a different one to call off my troops- and again they refuse. This continues ad infinitum until the AI is destroyed, or I take pity on them and let them live.

I can understand the 'fight to the death' mentality in some civs, like Mongols. But when it's Ghandi, or the French (no offense, Hian) condemning their people to certain death rather than give up one city, well that just seems wrong.
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The supply lines sound like a cool idea. I have another thought. How about bringing back the Zone of Control rule from civ2. Forts seem so useless when the enemy can just walk past your entrenched position instead of assaulting it.

And how about different levels of Open Borders. Like:
Level 1: Merchants only. Allows trading but units cannot pass through
Level 2: Allows non combat units like settlers, missionaries and workers. Also allows immigration for mixing of population in neighboring cities.
Level 3: Allows Passage to land units, as long as they do not pass within 1 square of a city.
Level 4: Allows free movement of land, sea and air units, like we have now.

WarKirby

 

[Mexico]

I humbly apologize to all player, which are waiting for new release of our mod
as i wroted before, i have some family issue, which prevent me workng on mod during weekend and then also i have some important work (service contract for customer).

Right now i am preparing new installer and after few testing of this, i think we will be able release new version

thank you for patience

Mexico

 

[Hian the Frog]

I would be good if the AI could be made more reasonable in what it will give you. When I'm fighting an AI opponent (and by fighting, i mean dominating) I like to ask for a city in return for letting them live. And I never get it.

And after I take that city by force, I demand a different one to call off my troops- and again they refuse. This continues ad infinitum until the AI is destroyed, or I take pity on them and let them live.

I can understand the 'fight to the death' mentality in some civs, like Mongols. But when it's Ghandi, or the French (no offense, Hian) condemning their people to certain death rather than give up one city, well that just seems wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The supply lines sound like a cool idea. I have another thought. How about bringing back the Zone of Control rule from civ2. Forts seem so useless when the enemy can just walk past your entrenched position instead of assaulting it.

And how about different levels of Open Borders. Like:
Level 1: Merchants only. Allows trading but units cannot pass through
Level 2: Allows non combat units like settlers, missionaries and workers. Also allows immigration for mixing of population in neighboring cities.
Level 3: Allows Passage to land units, as long as they do not pass within 1 square of a city.
Level 4: Allows free movement of land, sea and air units, like we have now.

WarKirby

WarKirby,

There is no offense at all . When we lose our war against Prussia in 1870-1871, we had to make peace by giving them 2 of our "states" (among 22, we have) . From that peace to WW I, the country, the people, the army, the navy,...everything and everybody in fact, was made to prepare the next war that would give back to us the two lost "states" . Then, WW I came.... Probably the worst war ever made in our history. We lost 1.7 millions people on a pop of around 40 millions. It's awesome ! But we recovered the lost "states". + + +
So i agree with you. Some civs are ready to lose a city if this allow them to survive and (eventually) prepare an revange war... France, India, China are among those ones. Also, we don't have to forget that some leader are ready to "give" a city whereas other are not. Remember Churchill's speach in 1940. Something had to be done about diplomacy, that's sure.

The Frog.

 

[HClark54]

Is there anyway to use your map on other games or mods? I really like it as it is more accurate then all the other Earth maps out there. If so can some one 's post it so it can be used. The other Earth maps are pretty bad. Even Rhye's 18 Civ Earth mapis pretty inaccurate. (thats not a shot at anyone) I just want a better, more accurate map for the mod Im playing.

Thanks
Heath

 

[Hian the Frog]

I humbly apologize to all player, which are waiting for new release of our mod
as i wroted before, i have some family issue, which prevent me workng on mod during weekend and then also i have some important work (service contract for customer).

Right now i am preparing new installer and after few testing of this, i think we will be able release new version

thank you for patience

Mexico

Mexico,

No problems. Family is very important.

Did you have a look on what i sent to Houman ?

The Frog.

 

[flexter]

any news on the patch yet? and is there a way to change some of the flags because i hate the german one?

 

[Ankenaton]

I've never played it. You are right, the AI is always problem which i often forget to think about. Maybe I'm wrong but if AI can manage workers, it should manage these supply wagons (maybe with some changes).

I have and it is a great game in that regard. The AI actively goes after your logistics; you also suffer attrition/health damage the longer you remain in enemy territory without support or resupply. Like Houman says the AI in Civ gets kind of creaky the more things you add to it and/or try to tweak.

 

[purger30]

Mexico, Houman

Your work on this mod is great. Take your time with this patch. If you need any help with testing or modeing (I am newbe in this one) contact me...

 

[Vertico]

I couldn't agree more. To be frank, the diplomacy model the guys from Firaxis have put together doesn't really meet the needs. I don't know if it is possible, but I have been thinking about a more dynamic diplomacy system. When the time for a peace treaty comes, you should be able to demand
a) certain resources
b) the delivery of certain units as reparations
c) the destruction of a certain class of units by the loser
d) demand that the loser stops to produce a certain unit for a certain amount of time or stops researching a certain technology
e) hands over research results
f) gives back a city captured from one of your allies
g) and so on

This is off the top of my head, but I would like to hear some opinions on this, please.

That's good as well.

Houman, Mexico and other who know how to do MODs.
I would repeat my question: is it in general possible to change diplomacy code, adding new features? If not, we would not talk about it

 

[WarKirby]

i have some important work (service contract for customer).
Mexico

Just out of curiosity, what is your job, Mexico?

WarKirby

 

[Vanchelon]

Been trying to try out your wonderful mod but Ive run into a pretty gamestopping problem
I don't get any tile graphics except the basic underlying terrain. I dont see forests, resources etc. Units and so on show up fine but everything else just looks like you stripped the map of any forests/improvements/resources.
The forests ARE there but they just wont show.
I've installed according to the instructions and tried reinstalling the mod several times (It was a clean vanilla install + warlords).
Could warlords be the culprit? I havent tried reinstalling the game yet, figured I'd wait until the next patch comes out for TR, hopefully today

Anyway, any ideas? I've been looking through the bug report forum and havent found any help there either.

 

[WarKirby]

TR doesn't work with warlords. Putting them together is a BAD idea.

After this patch, the next one will make Total Realism warlords compatible. Until then, play with Warlords, or Total Realism.

Not both

WarKirby

 

[THARN]

Vanch- I don't think the TR MOd is currently compatible with Warlords expansion.
The MOdders will be releasing that one at a later time.

 

[Vanchelon]

So installing warlords but running vanilla civ with TR will cause probs? damnit ok will try it without having warlords installed then.
Edit: Tried just removing warlords but that wasn't enough to fix the problem so trying a reinstall.

 

[CarpeDiem]

raging barbs on this i see, scary?