[Modmod]Dawn of Knoedel - Comprehensive Rebalance Project

[Imperator Knoedel]

You're my hero! Did I ever tell you I have communist leanings? Thank you comrade...

Aw shucks, you are making me blush.

I am not sure on which tile exactly to place the sugar though, lest some silly AI always settles on top of it. Suggestion?

Btw I am considering renaming Republic to Democracy for less overlap with Oligarchy.

Also what is it with Marble and Stone and France and the wonders it is supposed to build?

 

[ales_]

Iest

I've always thought there is no visible difference between "I" and "l"... This proofs I was wrong.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Huh, that really was an I, not a l. Somehow I didn't notice that on my tablet, even when I checked after your post.

Anyhow, I am never sure whether to post ideas in this thread or the one for Suggestions and Requests, but I figure anything beyond minor bugfixes and common sense stuff (*remembers 1.13 Central Planning*) is probably gonna be implemented faster by myself, so I might as well post it here:

What about steam powered transports? Steam power was a huge step up for intercontinental transport, but this isn't represented in the game at all. All Steam Power does here is add one lousy gunboat that can't even go into deep water. Maybe a transport between Galleons and Transports should be added at Steam Power? Then again depending on your tech path there is like two techs between Steam Power and Combustion, so maybe that space isn't really worth it? But should the huge increase in naval mobility caused by steam engines really be completely ignored?

Thoughts?

Also I'll be damned if everybody truly thinks my suggestion for a new civics roster is perfectly fine. Criticize me, dammit! Since stability will force me to work a lot with python for every changed civic I want to get it right the first time and not realize something was a bad idea while I am in the middle of implementing it.

 

[merijn_v1]

I think that is a good idea. But it should also be applied to warships. The gap between frigates and destroyers is too big. Many mods have the Iron Frigate to fill in the gap.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I think that is a good idea. But it should also be applied to warships. The gap between frigates and destroyers is too big. Many mods have the Iron Frigate to fill in the gap.

I think it makes more sense to repurpose the Ironclad and just allow it to cross oceans imo.

Also, Civics!?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Some more thoughts that popped into my head:

Wonder movies for Apollo Program and SDI? The Manhattan Project has one, and I remember the disappointment I had when I first landed a person (I'll be damned if my Persian communist utopia had not abolished the Patriarchat at that point!)* on the moon back in Vanilla.

Also I'm considering moving the Spaceship Cockpit back to Fiber Optics now that Robotics gives more production than anyone could ever need. I would also give the Space Elevator a free tech for its builder to make up for the fact that the real bottleneck in a space race is research, not production. A civ that researches Robotics on its way to Alpha Centauri would thus get to eat its cake and have it too.

*Now that I'm thinking about it, I can't remember if that Persian game or another one as America on Earth18civs was my first ever victory in Civ4. I'm reasonably sure I ran Free Market as America because I wanted to reenact history, or maybe I adopted Environmentalism because it was in the bottom row and I figured it has to be the best civic because of that? *reminiscing sigh* Good times, good times...

 

[clanky4]

Wonder movies for Apollo Program and SDI?

?

 

[merijn_v1]

I'm pretty sure there are wondermovies for them in the database. You only have to include them.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I'm pretty sure there are wondermovies for them in the database. You only have to include them.

I am well aware of that, and have already included them ages ago in my modmod for Legends of Revolution (shameless self advertising) from which I also took the graphics for the Police unit because I couldn't be bothered to go search for them in the database again.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

More thoughts:

Whatever was wrong with Numidian Cavalry as UU for Phoenicia? They were doing a lot more for Hannibal than the one single elephant he managed to get across the alps.

 

[ales_]

I am well aware of that, and have already included them ages ago in my modmod for Legends of Revolution (shameless self advertising) from which I also took the graphics for the Police unit because I couldn't be bothered to go search for them in the database again.

A link?

More thoughts:

Whatever was wrong with Numidian Cavalry as UU for Phoenicia? They were doing a lot more for Hannibal than the one single elephant he managed to get across the alps.

Maybe because they are not Numidians?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

A link?

Here you go:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13931553

Didn't think anyone would be interested in it though, considering in the half year since I uploaded it I haven't gotten a single reply to my thread. You will find that many of the changes I implemented in Dawn of Knoedel were taken from there.

Maybe because they are not Numidians?

But Carthage did rely heavily on mercenaries.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Thinking some more about civics, perhaps I should just cut down the number of civics in each category down to 4 (5 with default) again? Because try as I might I can't think of anything realistic for Labor and Economy.

Let's see, throw out Theocracy in Government, Absolutism in Society, I'm throwing out half of Labor anyway so basically I only replace Industrialism and Public Welfare with Caste System and rename Capitalism and Agrarianism, finally get rid of Environmentalism (which is long overdue honestly), remove Scholasticism (maybe merge Pantheon and Animism to make room for State Ideology?) and Multilateralism.

Thoughts?

 

[borhap88]

Changes I really like:

Astronomy:
Added Requires Gunpowder optionally

Optics:
Changed Beaker Cost to 1000

Added Unit Modern Infantry:
Gunpowder
Took Graphics from Navy SEAL and stats from Infantry
Requires Rifling and Plastics
170 Hammer Cost
26 Strength
1 Movement
1 First Strike
+25% City Strength
Cannot enter Jungle, Rainforest, Marsh
9 Drafting Priority

Conquistador:
Removed Requires Astronomy
Added Requires Optics
Changed Strength to 11

Legion:
Added Can Build Fort

Mechanized Infantry:
Added Requires Oil
Set Drafting Priority to 0

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Thank you for your feedback! It is after all the Playertariat (I guess?) I'm doing this for.

Anyhow, while I did merge my modmod with the most recent Git version it unfortunately seems to have introduced a severe bug I would like to see removed before continuing my development. Also I'm waiting for Leoreth do be done with his exposing C++ modifiers to Python functions or something thingy before setting out to revise the civics roster, as obviously I would need to make some adjustments to stability.

Speaking of which, unless someone can convince me otherwise this is the changes I plan on making:

☆ Replace Theocracy with Oligarchy (available with some Classical tech, +1 Commerce from Specialists I guess?)
☆ Remove Industrialism
☆ Move Public Welfare to Economy
☆ Rename Agrarianism to Serfdom
☆ Add Caste System in Labor (available with Writing, free Specialist in all cities?)
☆ Add Collaboration in Labor (available with Communism, make it some amalgation of Public Welfare, Environmentalism, Industrialism and/or Central Planning I suppose)
☆ Remove Environmentalism
☆ Replace Fanaticism with Theocracy
☆ Remove Scholasticism
☆ Rename Secularism to Tolerance (allow state religion but don't give any bonuses with it)
☆ Add State Ideology in Religion (available with Nationalism, no state religion, unhappy for all religions, something something Espionage, happiness, military and/or low upkeep)

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I thought some more about Caste System: One specialist per city isn't gonna cut it if I want a historical India to run it, and I definitely want that. For the first Indian UHV it needs Priests to build two shrines quickly, so Slavery is a must have to get up temples at first, and India has enough food that the one free specialist might not be worth the anarchy. For the second UHV it needs at least 10 cities for a combined 20 Temples or get lucky with some other religion than Hinduism or Buddhism spreading. In any case I don't see how I could make Caste System more attractive than whipping in a time where you need to spam settlers, missionaries and temples, even with the help of that one world wonder that speeds up production of state religion buildings. For the last UHV India needs to maximize population everywhere, so that's the most likely time where Caste System would outperform Slavery, but then it also needs to compete with Serfdom.

I definitely want Caste System to be something related to Specialists, and I want it to be the best option for India to run for most of the game, but I don't want it to be so good that it becomes the go to choice over Slavery and Serfdom in the rest of the world. I'm thinking maybe move all the doubled specialist slots (or at least double Priests) to this civic so India could run lots of Priests for its first UHV after whipping one or two temples, or give it the Food from Specialists effect from City States for the third UHV. Thoughts?

 

[Leoreth]

Who else but India would run Caste System? Who should never?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Who else but India would run Caste System? Who should never?

Mali, Ethiopia, Mughals, Korea and Khmer maybe?

'Murrica and Russia should never I guess.

 

[ales_]

One specialist per jungle/rainforest tile?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

One specialist per jungle/rainforest tile?

This would require actual coding, so nope.

The effects from which to choose from are:

Free specialist(s) in all cities
Extra yields (Food, Production, Commerce) from specialists
Extra Commerces (Gold, Research, Culture, Espionage) from specialists
Doubled specialist slots
Extra Great People Birth Rate
Extra Great People Birth Rate with state religion

...

Huh. Huuuuh. Huuuuuuuuuuh. The more I'm thinking about the last one the more I like it. Since I am squeezing Theocracy, Organized Religion, Fanaticism and Scholasticism into a total of two civics I'll have lots of religious effects left over I could use elsewhere anyway. +50% Great People Birth with State Religion and doubled specialist slots of all kinds perhaps?