[Modmod]Dawn of Knoedel - Comprehensive Rebalance Project

[Imperator Knoedel]

So should I increase defensive modifiers from terrain, buildings, improvements and culture?

Yeah it might be a start, you could still blitzkrieg your way through enemy territory but a more serious siege would be needed to actually take cities... why not.


How does it work in VIP?

Units have way more movement points, but tiles cost a certain number of points to cross, so it's not 1 move = 1 tile, but it depends on the type of tile you cross.

Now to be fair, the ability to blitzkrieg is kind of the point of this change.

Isn't that the way it is right now with forests and hills?

 

[J422]

Now to be fair, the ability to blitzkrieg is kind of the point of this change.

Yeah, I understand and that's cool, I just think it requires more tuning.

One example, playing as china, before you get the great wall, if you let one horse archer (4 moves) past your defense, you're basically screwed as it can destroy 2 improvements per turn ...

2nd example, playing as france, spain declared war and took Marseille and Bordeaux (with 4-5 defenders each) in one turn. You could say it's fair as I should have better protected my cities but it's certainly not fun to lose half of its cities in one turn.

Isn't that the way it is right now with forests and hills?

The VIP basically works the same way, but it is more granular and precise, so it could allow for a better balance.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I now adjusted the second UBs and changed some building classes around. I also added Silver in Greece which disappears around 300BC. I further added Troy as an Independent city but because apparently the city renaming mechanic doesn't work like I thought it does I just named it Ephesos for now as it will flip to Greece anyway. I might revert that change, or let it spawn after the Greek flip so you can actually fight the Trojan war
All in all Greece might be just a tiny bit overpowered at the moment.

 

[DC123456789]

It's very easy to make Troy get renamed to Ephesus in the CityNameManager.

 

[need my speed]

The problem is that you are far more capable of choosing your battles, pillaging, and other offensive actions. In extremis, look at how a late-game naval battle goes.

Of course, terrain hinders this, which is good, but eh. Mind, I'm just theorising.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I see your point. What I would love to introduce would be zones of control and crossing rivers costing extra movement, but I'm not sure how to go about that.

 

[banestrider]

Git is asking for the Username when I try to do the second method, any suggestions?

Thanks Bane

 

[Force44]

This morning it came to me that the additional movement increases the impact units have on tiles a lot.

The natural way to counter this would be to decrease the value of one (1 as in each tile an sich) tile. The Kuriorates in the Fall from Heaven II mod had a feature that allowed their cities to work 40 tiles in stead of 20 (the next ring). You might want to look into this. Especially now DoC huge edition is aiming to create a larger map.

For 3-ring cities the current map might be a bit on the small side with all the civs in DoK at the moment but (imho) it would make the features you have added sofar really shine.

 

[merijn_v1]

https://github.com/Imperator-Knoedel/RFC-Dawn-of-Knoedel

Remove the underlined 's' in the URL of step 5.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Git is asking for the Username when I try to do the second method, any suggestions?

Probably this:

https://github.com/Imperator-Knoedel/RFC-Dawn-of-Knoedel

Remove the underlined 's' in the URL of step 5.

This morning it came to me that the additional movement increases the impact units have on tiles a lot.

The natural way to counter this would be to decrease the value of one (1 as in each tile an sich) tile. The Kuriorates in the Fall from Heaven II mod had a feature that allowed their cities to work 40 tiles in stead of 20 (the next ring). You might want to look into this. Especially now DoC huge edition is aiming to create a larger map.

For 3-ring cities the current map might be a bit on the small side with all the civs in DoK at the moment but (imho) it would make the features you have added sofar really shine.

The problem is that with a more or less accurate Earth map the regions with the most important and populous cities aren't the regions with the most space, quite the opposite in fact, so the ability to work the third ring doesn't really amount too much, especially since many cities are within two tiles of each other anyway. Without a bigger map I don't really see a point for it, and I don't see the point of a bigger map anyway as it is the nature of an accurate Earth map that most of it is useless water or desert or tundra that will never be worked by any city. Hence why I have taken steps to buff towns and specialists to encourage "tall" expansion.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Wait a minute... A guy with an axe can easily swing it around and cut a spear that's pointed at him into little pieces. Why did nobody ever point out that the axeman's bonus versus melee, especially as a counter to spearmen, does make sense after all? And Leoreth even complimented me on that change!

Also Horse Archers are OP in real life. Maybe I should turn them into a unit that's restricted to the Tribalism civic and barbarians, while adding a generic horseman unit in its stead, like what I did with Knights, Vassalage and Heavy Horsemen.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Btw does anyone have valuable insights on the economy of ancient Persia and China? I thought some more about civics, as I always do, and I'm not really happy about how Persia and China don't really fit any of the available civics in the labor category, except maybe Tribalism for Persia? While my labor category is still vastly superior to the generic empty words that make up half of DoC's labor column, I am not really happy with it and it's far from perfect.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Has the longbow actually been used outside of England? I seriously consider channeling Civ5 and turning the Longbowman into England's unique unit, which replaces the Crossbowman. Alternatively I could restrict it to Vassalage or Serfdom.

 

[Force44]

Poitiers
​

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Poitiers
​

Mind explaining the joke that apparently went over my head?

Anyway I reverted Spearmen and Axemen to their Vanilla stats, except Spearmen now only cost 30 hammers and Axemen only have a 25% bonus versus Melee. Pikemen now have +100% versus mounted and +25% versus melee, and Heavy Swordsmen are unchanged.

 

[Leoreth]

Poitiers is not in England.

actually most longbowmen came from wales so

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

You know what I mean. Wouldn't the Longbowman make more sense as an English unique unit, replacing the Crossbowman as the Crossbow was far more widely used?

 

[clanky4]

Wait a minute... A guy with an axe can easily swing it around and cut a spear that's pointed at him into little pieces. Why did nobody ever point out that the axeman's bonus versus melee, especially as a counter to spearmen, does make sense after all? And Leoreth even complimented me on that change!

I thought the reason you originally changed that was because axemen were not as widely used on the battlefield as a standard footman.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I thought the reason you originally changed that was because axemen were not as widely used on the battlefield as a standard footman.

Yes, but apparently I was wrong? I think? Bah, trying to condense thousands of years of history of hundreds of civilizations around the world into one somewhat accurate game is, like, super hard.

 

[clanky4]

Sounds like an axecellent predicament.