Monarch HOF Try

[Svar]

Now that booqaboo's two tiny world conquest scores have been added to the Monarch list I will have to try even harder to break into that list. My current try on a large world was never going to make the any world size list anyway and the large Monarch list has only 1 entry so I'm a shoe-in with my projected score of 13,000+. It makes my job harder to find the right huge world for the try but the hunt is very exciting. In the meantime I have been using good start worlds with lower domination limits as practice starts up to 1000 BC.

So far I have been able to complete 5 starts. The settings for these worlds have been; huge, pangea, wet, warm, 5 billion, and roaming barbarians. I play as the Mayans so I only need 1 cow on a river to make 4 turn settler factory. I play with roaming barbarians because the Mayans can capture 1/3 of the barbarians to make slave workers and I have an average of 3.2 slaves in these 5 starts. These starts are only a learning exercise and I am still making some mistakes (not watching the F1 screen is my biggest mistake) but when I start my real try I will take my time to do it right.

The starts average 3635 domination limit for 4 of them while 1 has a limit of 3814. The average cities by 1000 BC is 16 with the highest being 18 (this world had 3 cows around a lake in the starting location but no rivers close so I had to irrigate everything from the lake). There were also an average of 2.4 settlers not placed. There were an average of 11.4 workers with the highest being 15.

I still need more work on my start but I'm learning and I have lots of new worlds on which practice. I notice that I really want wide open landscape with lots of bonus grassland in the immediate vicinity of my starting location, something I haven't had in any of these. It would also be nice if I start near the middle of the map so I could expand in all directions. In my large world try my palace was in the far left corner of the map and I never moved it which really hampered my initial expansion.

I will finish my large world try this weekend and when I finally start my huge world maybe I will practice screenshots and post a thread on the effort.

 

[superslug]

Good luck!

 

[Svar]

I'm getting better at the starting sequence. I just completed another practice start. This was a huge world with a domination limit of 3727 and a wheat on grassland near a river. The start was much more open than some of the other tries, there was lots of grassland, some forest and some hills. There were 3 grapes near my 3rd or 4th city and a cow near my 5th city. I tried to set up settler factories near those two locations but didn't clear enough forest to make them into 4 turn settler factories.

1000 BC results; 20 cities with 1 settler in route and about 4 others being built, 16 workers and 5 slaves, 14 Javelin Throwers and 13 warriors. I still don't have horses or iron hooked up but they are close. There are a couple of other luxuries close enough to secure before my 8 rivals get close to them.

My score is 319 and my closest rival are the Hittities with 257 and 8 cities. Ther are still 3 rivals that I haven't found yet. I'm researching Construction and can trade for Polytheism. That only leaves Currency to advance to the MA.

I doubt I will ever finish this, it is still just a practice start. I'm still looking for the really great world with a good start.

 

[fret]

Originally posted by Svar

1000 BC results; 20 cities with 1 settler in route and about 4 others being built, 16 workers and 5 slaves, 14 Javelin Throwers and 13 warriors.

That is a good start with the Cities!

I hope those units are en-route to kicking some ass rather than sitting around doing nothing

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by fret


That is a good start with the Cities!

I hope those units are en-route to kicking some ass rather than sitting around doing nothing

The Javelin Throwers are hunting barbs and the Warriors are pulling MP duty. The other civs are still a long way off and I have other worlds with higher domination limits and potentially better starting positions so will be trying those before I make my final decision.

First I have to finish my original large world try.

 

[Svar]

I finally finished my large world HOF Monarch C3C try and submitted it with a score of 13930 and a 100K win. The 100K win is a misnomer in C3C since in a large world the culture win requires 130K.

I played the Mayans on a warm, wet, 5 billion. 60% water continent world with restless barbs and 11 rivals. My starting position was in the upper left hand corner of the map with 1 cow next to a river. Mostly I made lots of mistakes, so this is what this post is all about.

I didn't make a 1000 BC save so have to use my 10 AD save for my first update and as a comparison for my next try on a huge pangea world.

In 10 AD I had 19 cities, 9 workers , 8 slaves (all barbarians), and 39 associated military units. I was in the lead in tech and researching currency. I had iron, horses, and furs hooked up. I was going to have to fight for any more resources. I had contact with 4 other civs and hadn't found the other continent yet. I was the score leader with 572.

By 1080 AD I had 2 rivals eliminated and taken their land on my own continent. I was no longer the leader in tech and was researching metallurgy. I had made contact with the other continent and all other civs. My score was 1575 and I would lead for the rest of the game. My land holdings consisted of 22% of the available tiles about 1/3 of my goal of 66%.

By 1500 AD I had taken control of my own continent and had 37% of the available tiles.

By 1615 AD I was researching sanitation after already researching replaceable parts and electronics. I was 12 turns away from building Hoover Dam and didn't switch from Monarchy to Republic until its completion.

As you can see I was really slow in many things so my next try should improve my potential score by at least 25%. Given that the domination limit on my large world was 2649 and I have 3 good starts on huge pangea worlds a couple with domination limits of 3650 and 1000 BC starts of 20 and 21 cities plus a huge world with a domination limit 3723 and a 1000 BC start of 18 cities, my potential new score would be about 24,000. That will get me on the big board.

To make the top of the list I will need a start like the top 3 players on that board got.

 

[Svar]

After finishing my large world try I was eager to start a new game. I had practiced on 9 different promising worlds and decided to pick the best of those for my new start. I eliminated 7 right away for a variety of reasons and chose between 2. Since these games all had saves at 1000 BC and my large world try had the first save at 10 AD I played my selected game from 1000 BC to 10 AD and will report on both those dates here.

The selected game is being played with C3C v. 1.15 on a warm, wet, 5 billion, pangea, 60% water world. I'm playing as the Mayans again with roaming barbarians against 8 rivals. The 8 rivals are ; England, Spain, the Mongols, the Hittites, the Zulu, Portugal, Rome, and India set to least aggressive. The domination limit is 3727 tiles.

The 1000 BC save had 18 cities, 3 settlers. 16 workers, 2 slaves, 1 spearman (I forgot to watch my settler factory and a spearman was built), 21 warriors, and 15 Javelin Throwers. I had 1 granary, 6 barracks (3 in construction), and 7 libraries in construction. Furs were hooked up, spices, silk, and iron were close to being hooked up. Horses and Ivory are farther away but will be hooked up eventually. I have contact with England, Spain, the Mongols, the Hittites, and the Zulu. I am researching construction (19 turns) and need currency, code of laws, and polytheism to adavnce to MA. My score was 342, England was second with 245 (8 cities).

By 10 AD I had 36 cities, 2 settlers, 33 workers, 27 slaves (thank you Javelin Throwers), 27 warriors, 20 swordsmen, 35 Javelin Throwers, and 2 spearmen (made the same mistake with my settler factory). I have 4 luxuries hooked up with incense in about 8 turns and grapes in sight. I still don't have horses hooked up but there are 2 available that will be shortly. I made contact with Portugal by meeting one of their warriors but still have not seen India or Rome. There is a war with Portugal allied with one of those against the other. I'm moving some warriors and a single galley in Portugal's direction to see if I can make contact and map their territory. I'm researching Feudalism (13 turns) and just entered Republic after 7 turns of anarchy. My score was 828, England was still second with 490 (18 cities).

I will disband most of the warriors as I'm paying 164 gold per turn and currently running a -27 GPT deficit. There is still plenty of room to expand and I'm placing most of my cities at my permanent OCP placement locations. There are 11 tempory cities and I will fill in the gaps when I can no longer expand. My OCP interlacing got a little off when I started but now that I have picked which one is permenant I can fill in with the best potential location to take advantage of special tiles.

More tomorrow after I reach 1000 AD tonight.

I have tried some screen shots but can't seem to shrink them without losing part using msPaint. Any help would be appreciated. The first was very interesting as I popped a settler in 3450 BC when my capital expanded its cultural border, something I have never seen before. It was settled in place perfect for the interlaced OCP.

 

[fret]

Originally posted by Svar I have tried some screen shots but can't seem to shrink them without losing part using msPaint. Any help would be appreciated. [/B]

If you zip them up and post them as an attachment I (or I'm sure one of the other regulars in this forum) will shrink them for you so they are suitable for posting

 

[Svar]

Talk about optimistic, I only got to 560 AD last night and haven't made comprehensive notes for a good write-up. I was attacked by England about 260 AD when one of their galleys attacked one of my garrisoned coastal cities, I reported it here . I wasn't prepared for that and had many Javelin Throwers in English territory that tried to kill fortified spearmen. Most of them failed but one was successful so it triggered my GA.

I'll wait for the details about the war when I do a comprehensive report after my 1000 AD save. The short story is I upgraded swordsmen to medieval infantry and horsemen to knights before forcing peace after my 20 turns allied with the Hittites and Mongols. In the peace treaty I got all of Englands remaining cities. They were pretty beaten-up but I have never done that well in a peace negotiation before.

Before that war really got started, in 300 AD, I was sneak attacked by the Portuguese when they landed a lone archer very close to my capital and used our ROP to capture an unoccupied interior city. I retook the city the next turn and didn't realize how close I came to losing the unoccupied city building the Statue of Zeus until I made some screen shots after my save at 560 AD. There wasn't much fighting after that other than me trying to ambush some Portuguese warriors with Javelin Throwers. Most of those also lost including an elite Javelin Thrower against a regular warrior unfortified on grassland. I have decided that in future games my Javelin Throwers are barb hunters and garrison troops, I'll leave the real fighting to the swordsmen.

On a closing note, by 560 AD I have 6 luxury resources hooked up and a Knight is sitting on a 7th that I may have to fight for eventually. I'll have cavalry before 1000 AD so it looks like constant fighting from there until there is only one rival left. Oh, I'm also only 10 turns away from my peace treaty with England expiring at which time I will capture London with the Pyramid.

 

[Svar]

Well things have been going slower than I thought and should have gone slower. It is now 800 AD, the war with England is back on and I have London with the Pyramid. I'm 5 turns away from Military Tradition with 70 knights (12 building), have Leonardo's Workshop, and built the FP about 10 tiles away from the palace I think.

I have made planty of small mistakes and 1 big one. The big one was forgetting to switch building Sun Tsu's Art of War when the Hittites build it in 690 AD to a palace prebuild. In 700 AD the computer informed me that it was switching to the colloseum and the switch cost me 216 shields. The city that was building it is currently building the Sistine Chapel and is 20 turns from completing it. The problem is the Spanish are also building it so it's a footrace to see who finishes first.

Plans for the future before I get to 1000 AD is initiate a war with the Hittites, they are a close neighbor and almost as advanced as myself. They also have Sun Tsu's. There is also 1 English city left that I have Knights close to so even if that doesn't end the war I will ask for peace as war weariness is creeping in again. There were only 20 turns (maybe 19 as I ended the treaty at the first available opportunity) between the last peace treaty and the current war. I will now plan the Hittite war and preposition forces after the upgrade to cavalry. The Hittites don't have saltpeter so the toughest defenders they could have is pikemen. Many of their cities still have spearmen.

Finally I think I know how to post screenshots so when I get to 1000 AD I will take a day to report my progress complete with screenshots. What is the recommended size for screen shots since I now know how to shrink them?

 

[Svar]

I still haven't gotten to 1000 AD but I'm very close. My score to this point is 2687 which is 70% greater than my large world try at 1080 AD. That tracks well with my estimate for a final score of about 24,000. My land holdings are 24% which is also a good comparision with my large world try at 1080 AD where I had 22%. Believe it or not there is still virgin land that no one has claimed so my Javelin Throwers are still hunting barbs.

England is history and I initiated a war with the Hittites. I allied with Spain, the Mongols and the Zulu. India just declared war on Rome so the only civ not at war is Portugal but they were severly hurt in the early war with me and most of the rest of the world. I have taken 9 Hittite cities so far so their WW should be very high. They are still a Republic but a couple of more cities could change that.

The Hittites have Sun Tsu's AoW and the Great Wall so fighting them has been more expensive that I thought. In one size 1 city there were 2 fortified pikemen on grassland. I only sent 4 cavalry initially. I lost 1 cav, redlined 2 more and the other one destroyed the regular pikeman. Next turn 4 more cav attacked. I lost 2 cav, redlined 1, and destroyed a spearman. Third turn I finally destroyed the now elite pike but didn't kill the final spearman. On the fourth turn I finally captured the city which was auto-razed. I think I lost about 5 cav total so am now resorting to cannon before attempting to take the remaining cities many of which now have at least 1 musket man.

I'll finish tonight and use Friday to post the 1000 AD update complete with screenshots.

 

[Svar]

This was a huge world with a domination limit of 3727 and a wheat on grassland near a river. The start was much more open than some of the other tries, there was lots of grassland, some forest and some hills. There were 3 grapes near my 3rd or 4th city and a cow near my 5th city. I tried to set up settler factories near those two locations but didn't clear enough forest to make them into 4 turn settler factories.

1000 BC results; 20 cities with 1 settler in route and about 4 others being built, 16 workers and 5 slaves, 14 Javelin Throwers and 13 warriors. I still don't have horses or iron hooked up but they are close. There are a couple of other luxuries close enough to secure before my 8 rivals get close to them.

My score is 319 and my closest rival are the Hittities with 257 and 8 cities. Ther are still 3 rivals that I haven't found yet. I'm researching Construction and can trade for Polytheism. That only leaves Currency to advance to the MA.

The above world was my second choice. My first choice and the game I'm playing looked like this in 1000 BC.

I liked the 5 luxuries that are visible in this shot and thought I cound get to them before any rival considereing the distance I am from my closest rival.

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by Svar
1000 BC results; 20 cities with 1 settler in route and about 4 others being built, 16 workers and 5 slaves, 14 Javelin Throwers and 13 warriors.

That's really not a bad start!

 

[Svar]

This is my starting position. There are 5 bonus grassland tiles in this shot but I had to move SW to take advantage of all of them as the settler is sitting on one.

In 3450 BC, when my cultural border expands, the goody hut that my initial move left untouched when the first city was settled was popped for a settler. This is the first time in all the years of playing that I have ever seen this.

That settler founded the second city on the spot as it was in a good position for my interlaced OCP city location scheme and on a river.

 

[fret]

Does that jungle not have you worried - it could seriously slow your expansion/development to the west

I dont like jungle starts, whether in a HoF game or not.

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by fret
Does that jungle not have you worried - it could seriously slow your expansion/development to the west

I dont like jungle starts, whether in a HoF game or not.

When I started this game I was just practicing starts and wasn't really worried about anything. This was just 1 of 9 different practice starts that I had when I decided to actually play one of them as a HOF try. If you look at the 1000 BC save that I used to make my decision to play this, you will see that to the west there was coast. There is actually much more jungle to the SE but I could get through it both to the south and the east. My start in this game wasn't my best by far but I really liked the 5 luxuries that were visible in the 1000 BC save and the fact that my rivals were a long way away.

My last save was at 1100 AD and I have hooked up 7 luxuries and all of them were in my territory that I was the original settler. This world is so big that there is still unsettled territory. It also has lots of open land and very little mountains. Granted much of the open land is covered by forest (3 turns to clear), marsh (11 turns to clear), and jungle 16 (turns to clear) but there is grassland under most of it. The milking phase of this game will be very interesting and I should learn a lot.

 

[Svar]

This screenshot shows the production potential of the starting location.

At population 2 I already have the required +5 food required for a 4-turn settler factory and 4 shields. With each increase in population I will add 2 more shields thanks to the 6 bonus grassland tiles in the capitals working border.

If I wait until size 6 before starting a settler it will be complete in 2 turns. In the 2 turns waiting for size 6 again I could produce 2 warriors or 1 spearman. I don't think I did either of those things though, I think kept building settlers until the population dropped to 3 and built a Javelin Thrower.

 

[Svar]

In 260 AD, as I was busy expanding into all the virgin territory between me and my rivals, the English, a fortified swordsman was attacked by an English galley. At the time relations between myself and the English were polite and we had a Right of Passage aggrement in place. These screenshots show the
before and after results of that attack. The swordsman was unhurt and the galley was redlined but escaped. The unexpected war necessitated the allying of the Hittites and Mongols against the English. The war continued until 470 AD when the alliances with the Hittites and Mongols expired and I asked for peace with the English for all their remaining cities as war weariness was reducing the productivity of the empire.

In 300 AD the Portuguese who also had a ROP with me and polite relations decided to use the lone archer previously landed in my territory to sneak attack the first city settled after the capital. The city was unocupied at the time. These screenshots show the before and after results of that attack. Lucky for me the Portuguese didn't decide to capture Palenque instead where the Statue of Zues was 2 turns from completion. The city was retaken the next turn by the medieval infantry that had just been built in the city and left the previous turn. In the war with Portugal I enlisted the aid of the Zulu. The Zulu allied with the Mongols and the Mongols allied with Spain against the Portuguese. In 540 AD I decided that a war against Portugal was a waste of time and got Braga in the peace deal. Yes that is a Roman galley next to Braga and I finally make contact with the seventh civ in the game.

In 550 AD I spot an Indian archer and make contact with the last civ in the game.

In 670 AD my peace treaty with England runs out and I resume the war to capture London and the Pyramid in 680 AD. The English establish Carlisle between the Zulu and Mongols the same year. In 840 AD the English are finally eliminated after the capture of Carlisle and auto-raze of Ipswich.

My next target (England was my first, they just started it a little early) were the Hittites. They had been good allies against the English and as such had freely traversed my territory. Near the end of the war with the English I trapped some Hittites units for their eventual declaration of war against me. All I had to do was cancel our ROP, make them furious, and on the next turn demand that they leave. Spain, the Zulu, and Mongols were all enlisted against the Hittites. The war got costly and I had to use cannon against the Hittites as the year 1000 AD came to a close. I was losing cavalry as fast as I was building them.

My score in 1000 AD was 2757 and I had 24% of the land tiles. I had 88 workers, 70 slaves, 5 knights, 78 cavalry, 21 cannon, 44 medieval infantry, 20 Javelin Throwers, and 8 ancient cavalry. I was researching navigation (2 turns) and need banking, TOG, and magnitism to advance to the IA.

Here is a look at the world.

 

[Svar]

Turns are taking much longer now primariily because of over 300 workers to manually move and issue orders. I'm not sure of the exact number because I'm too lazy to count the slaves, I have 280 native workers. When I do a 1500 AD detailed update I'll give an accurate number.

The English and Hittites are history while the Mongols are down to a settler or two somewhere. My next target are the Zulu but I will wait about 5 more turns to hook-up my last luxury (gems). There are only 3 gems on the entire world and the Indians have two of them. The third is unclaimed between two small Zulu cities near the frontier. If I get that one hooked-up without fighting the Zulu it will mean that I got all 8 without fighting.

I have a large lead in tech with the Spanish second. India is third while the Zulu trail them. Rome and Portugal are both trailing everybody in everything. One of those will probably survive the purging of viable opponents. There is a small island with a single city from two different civs that will be the last holdout.

I'm researching Industrialization (5 turns), am 13 turns away from building the Theory of Evolution, already have Replaceable Parts and most of my core cities just completed hospitals. The Spanish need Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to advance while the Indians need Physics as well.

My score is on track to exceed 6000 by 1500 AD while my large world try had just over 3000 by then. By 1500 AD in my large world I had 37% of the land area and I already have 47% in my present try. Just looking at the ratio of scores assuming I continue to do as well as I have been I will more than double my old score. When I started this try my goal was to beat it by 173% (24,000). My present projection should be somewhere between 24,000 and 30,000. That wont be the top score but it should put me in the top 5.

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by Svar
My present projection should be somewhere between 24,000 and 30,000. That wont be the top score but it should put me in the top 5.

The Monarch table is full of scores from players who went for EMan's score and couldn't knock it off. So don't worry, you're in good company.