Monarchists' Cookbook I

We may want to adjust the schedule some, especially the early game. While these turns are extremely important, it is also the time the game flies by the fastest, since there is usually not a ton of micromanaging to do (1, maybe 2 cities, tops, easy to focus on). The first 150 turns can typically take less "real-time" than than 20 turns in the mid-1700s.

I agree the first couple eras move the most quickly IRL, but it's also when the most deviation happens. Even now with only 3 reports in, there are 3 considerably different approaches taken ... there's no telling what we might see after the next 3 (or more) come in.

Especially when close neighbours come into play, ~2000 BC is when I make the decision to zig or zag -- to rush or to play nice.

Even though the IRL rounds are very short, I think we'll like the different options come Round 2.

IDK ... maybe I'm unique in this respect. ;)
 
I reconsidered that earlier post fairly quickly when I really thought about it. This is a point in the game that will have a big impact. 2000 BC is just right. No worries. I just hate being "halfway" through a plan, heh.
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This is a point in the game that will have a big impact. 2000 BC is just right. No worries. I just hate being "halfway" through a plan, heh.

On the other hand, it appears we all have the same goal of building GLH and settling our islands soon.

By not stopping Round 1 and letting it move on to 1 AD in full, it would reveal whether any one of our starts results in the loss of the GLH to another civ or whether rushing the GLH (as I did) was really such a good idea.

I like stopping at 2000 BC, but now I'm curious as to what will happen differenty between us based on how we've prioritized our tiles and techs.

Now I'm so confused. :cry:



Is it not possible to play this with HOF mod? I guess I'm not totally clear on how these mod things work.

??? You should be able to play this with any mods you want, since the modified assets aren't locked.

About the only thing the HOF Mod should report is that this game is invalid for HOF use based on some of the other settings.
 
Do you mind if I post a screenshot from my own shadow?

Spoiler :
It's a few turns short of 2000BC (2100BC, actually). I find it a mix of all three approaches displayed so far.
Spoiler :
fullshot2.jpg
 
Hm, should I attempt a Monarch game? I'm no fan of Bismarck.
 
To 1775BC

Spoiler :
This is my 3rd attempt every playing Monarch. I am no fan of archipelago maps or Bismarck. :(

However, I think I got off to an okay, if shaky, start. I built two workers in my capital first, then a warrior to grow to size 2, then whipped a settler. I also built a scout and a galley somewhere in there, too.

I met Saladin and Joao. Hate them both. Saladin will be my first victim - but he is Protective, and I am not aggressive. I might delay until I can get Construction.

I know Berlin is still only size 1. :mischief:

1775.jpg


I am doing pretty mediocre. :p
 
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Anyone care to read this picture and tell me what they see?
fullshot2.jpg

Spoiler :
I suppose I should explain myself.

I settled in place, and chose to research Fishing first. I wanted to get the work boats online as soon as possible. I micromanaged a warrior to complete in nine turns, at the same time as I discovered Fishing. This required working 2F/2H for five turns, and 1F/3H for four turns.

After finishing the warrior and Fishing, I set research to Bronze Working. I wanted to get the work boat out as soon as possible, so I chose to grow Berlin to size 2 before swapping to a hammer emphasis. This required nine turns of 2F/2H, one turn of 1F/3H and growth to size two, and five turns of 0F/5H. I complete the work boat on turn 24, on the same turn I would have if I had gone with 1F/3H from the start, but at size 2 and with one more hammer of production (overflow into the next work boat).

I swapped to 4F/2H for five turns, then 3F/3H for three turns. Bronze Working came in on turn 32, when I also met Saladin, my Hindu buddy. I delayed swapping to slavery for one turn, so that Berlin could fill to 29/36 food. After coming out of revolt, I whipped the work boat, and regrew to size 2 the next turn working 4F/1H.

This first whip had some decent overflow, which I put into a worker. I then switched production to a third work boat. Five turns of 6F/1H brought me to 30/36 food and size 2 in Berlin, so I whipped, completing my second work boat and regrowing to size 2 the following turn.

Overflow again went into the worker, though there was less this time. Research after Bronze Working was Sailing, and I had some turns until it completed. My choices were to continue work on the worker, start on a warrior, a barracks, a fourth work boat, or a settler. I chose to finish the worker, who completed a few short turns after I discovered Sailing.

After Sailing I chose to research Mysticism. I completed the worker, and started on a Lighthouse. The worker pre-mined both grassland hills, and pre-chopped the riverside grassland forest. All whips went into the worker to make use of the expansive trait, and I wanted all chops to go into wonders to make use of the industrious trait.

I grew to size four and 30/42 food before starting on a settler. By now, Hinduism had spread to Berlin, and I was already accumulating +ves with Saladin. Mysticism came in, and I continued through Masonry, The Wheel, and into Pottery.

I whipped the settler at 100/149 production for maximum overflow. The combined 10 "hammers" per turn made timing this easy. This overflow I directed into the lighthouse I had started earlier. It had been at 27/90 when I started the settler, and would be at 76/90 with this overflow.

I'm currently letting Berlin grow to 30/39 food before whipping again. The overflow from the lighthouse will go into the Great Lighthouse. The worker currently building roads to the copper near Berlin will come back down to finish the mines and the chop, and start on a cottage, while waiting on Hamburg to complete a monument and expand its borders.
 
Just for the record, I'm going to participate in this game. The idea is intriguing, to say the least.

There will be no save from me for round one, since honestly everything that has been posted so far is better than what I have done.

Apparently my early game needs more attention. First lesson learned already ;-).

As far as playing with mods goes: you have to install the mod into your CustomAssets folder (or the Assets folder inside the program directory). As long as it does not modify the save file (neither HOF nor BUG Mod do) you can use any mod. If you are participating in games that require unmodified assets (such as the xOTM series) you will need to reverse these changes before you play those games -- ugly but there is no other solution to that. Always back up your Assets folders before you overwrite them, or else you might have to do a complete reinstall to restore the game to a clean slate.
 
Here is my position in 2000 BC. I don't really care if I get "graded" or not, frankly (I understand it could be painful to weigh the nuances of 23 different saves, and I kinda doubt I have the best one anyway), but I figured since I'm getting the benefit of learning from everyone else's saves, it would be rude not to share mine as well. This is what I've got:

Spoiler :
As I mentioned earlier, this was my first game on Epic, I've never played anything but Normal in the past. So I was a little freaked out when I settled in place and was like OMG, 23 turns for a worker? Then I remembered the speed. I'm not thrilled with this capital site, even though I normally love seafood, just because I'm used to more production than this in my capital.

It seems obvious that Fishing has to be the first research target, and with all this forest, hard to see how BW isn't second. Now, we could build that worker and have Fishing and BW done just about the time he arrives... but it seems like an anemic start, and you're not taking advantage of the expansive bonus for worker-building if you build it at size 1. So we'll build a scout instead and plan on building the worker at size 2.

One move later, "Gah! It's an island!" Forget the scout, first build is a worker. First border pop reveals some flood plains to the south, maybe our second city goes there once we can get off the island.

Fishing pops and I realize the research times will take some getting used to. My worker is due in 15 turns but he will have nothing to do as BW won't be done for 23. By switching my tile to the clams, though, I lose 5 turns on the worker build but pick up 4 turns on BW, making them come out at about the same time. Much better.

Humorously, a forest grows on the one unforested tile in my inner ring. Hmm, maybe I'll be able to chop out Stonehenge or something since I feel obligated to leverage my Industrious trait early and often.

On turn 23 my enter-pressing is interrupted as I meet Saladin across the strait to the northeast. He's the founder of Hinduism, and might be competition for Stonehenge.

Civ4ScreenShot0089.jpg


I see what looks like a cultural border behind his archer meaning his capital is VERY close, although without Sailing it might as well be a million miles away.

BW pops and to no one's surprise, looks like copper on my island in only one more border pop. No point in building another city to take advantage of it because the land on this island is so crappy, I'll just work it from Berlin. I choose sailing next as I want to vote myself off this island at the first opportunity. Sailing pops, just about the time my 2nd work boat is coming due, and I'm thinking Ag>TW>Pottery after that. I've lost interest in Stonehenge because it looks like my early expansion is going to be too delayed to get much use out of it.

On turn 48 I get a great random event:

Civ4ScreenShot0090.jpg


It occurs to me that this might be a sort of distortion of how a "best ball" event is supposed to work, at least in the early going. Later on, there will be far greater distinctions between games than an event or two, but right now it's hard for me to imagine how anyone's game could have diverged too greatly from my own. Then again, maybe everyone is getting the same event.

I build a galley and decide to build a lighthouse next, rearranging my tiles to set up a 2-pop whip once Berlin grows to 4 (if I keep working the mine, like I normally would, I'll have too many hammers and will only be able to whip one pop by the time the city grows). The city will regrow super-fast with 2 lighthouse-aided clam tiles.

All game long, that goody hut has been staring at me, taunting me from across the water. On turn 59 my scout crosses the treacherous waters and finally pops it to receive... experience. Sigh.

I quickly find marble on the island to the south and I start getting the Industrious itch again. Looks like there's room for 2 cities on this island, although marble city will be a little weak due to lack of riverside tiles.

Civ4ScreenShot0092.jpg


As planned, I whip the lighthouse and put the extra hammers into a settler for development of the southern island. I get a quest to build 8 chariots which sounds less than thrilling. No idea if I have horses yet... and it's an island map, so I'm not all that curious either. Once the settler has the surplus, I drop a barracks in the queue so the city can grow before I finish off the settler. I'm going to pick up copper in about 12 turns with the next border pop, and who knows, I might want some promoted axemen to rush Saladin or something crazy like that.

The island 2 to the south looks to have tundra, putting me at the southern edge of the map. On turn 74 pottery finishes, and I need to do some thinking.

My next tech can be mysticism, to enable monuments for my upcoming cities, or masonry, to be able to quarry the marble. It's probably a moot point as I should be able to get them both by the time it matters.

More to the point, I have to figure out what I'm doing with the southern island. While I have space for 2 cities, the eastern half has lots of hills and no food to work them with...

In fact, even with CS, I wouldn't be able to chain irrigation to that hypothetical eastern city, so I'd be limited to working the marble and one grassland hill. With machinery, I could put up a couple pointless windmills, but there's still no way for me to work any of the plains hills.

A better option seems to be building a single city, on the plains hill smack dab in the middle of the island. I get an extra hammer in the city center, both flood plains, and marble in the second ring. The only thing I miss out on is the two riverside grassland tiles to the far left of the island, but that's the way it goes. This seems like a much better option than having one nice city that gets all the riverside tiles and one pointless city that exists solely to access the marble. I'd rather farm the flood plains and have a decent production city.

But where is my commerce going to come from? Maybe if I rush Saladin he'll have some better land than I do. It doesn't look like I have anywhere to go except through him anyway.

Berlin expands and... I realize that border pop doesn't pick up the copper after all. Well, that's a problem, now I definitely need a city that can access the copper. Looks like it won't be much of a city till CS, though.

Civ4ScreenShot0093.jpg


So here we are in 2000 BC, having just whipped out a settler in Berlin, and using the overflow on a warrior because it's about time we got a garrison to avoid the happiness penalty. Personally, I want to settle him in the plains tile on the eastern side of the island, where he can share the farm and the tin-boosted mine with Berlin, and work the copper in the 2nd ring. Using that mine, I'll be able to build a monument in no time and expand for the copper, because it's RUSH TIME!!! Note the research in the bottom right corner - Saladin has 14 turns on BW, meaning he's a ways from getting copper hooked up even if he has some. But can we really rush on an island map?

The alternative is settling the southern island and getting marble... the problem is that these two islands have no commerce to speak of and thus no real future. This is not a site from which we can patiently tech in isolation, we will get clobbered with that game plan. Either way, here is the save. Note that the turn is not over yet because the settler still has to decide where to move.


??? You should be able to play this with any mods you want, since the modified assets aren't locked.

About the only thing the HOF Mod should report is that this game is invalid for HOF use based on some of the other settings.

Strange, I don't know what I'm doing wrong then. I have HOF set to load by default, and when I loaded this save, the box came up that said "This save needs the following mods: NONE" and prompted me to restart the application. So I just played it with HOF off.
 

Attachments

As far as playing with mods goes: you have to install the mod into your CustomAssets folder (or the Assets folder inside the program directory). As long as it does not modify the save file (neither HOF nor BUG Mod do) you can use any mod. If you are participating in games that require unmodified assets (such as the xOTM series) you will need to reverse these changes before you play those games -- ugly but there is no other solution to that. Always back up your Assets folders before you overwrite them, or else you might have to do a complete reinstall to restore the game to a clean slate.

So installing it into my Mods folder (which works fine with games I start myself) won't let me play anyone else's save? I'm a little confused if you're saying I have to keep swapping it back and forth.
 
Strange, I don't know what I'm doing wrong then. I have HOF set to load by default, and when I loaded this save, the box came up that said "This save needs the following mods: NONE" and prompted me to restart the application. So I just played it with HOF off.
Read above. You can not have a mod loaded because the starting save was generated without one. You can, however, install and use a mod via one of the "Assets" folders, as long as it does not modify the save games (so any "unaltered game play" mod will do).

BTW I just realize the roster for this series has been set already. You can still expect some shadow saves from me ;-).
 
So installing it into my Mods folder (which works fine with games I start myself) won't let me play anyone else's save? I'm a little confused if you're saying I have to keep swapping it back and forth.
If you install it into your "Mods" folder it will only get loaded "on demand". This means that you either have to load it via the game menu (Advanced->Load a Mod) or set the mod as default in the INI-file. Also, if you load a save game that was generated while a mod was loaded, the save game will tell you that it is going to enable that mod (or "none" if there was no mod loaded).

Therefore, you can install anything you like into your "Mods" folder because the game will not be affected as long as you don't load any of these mods.

The second way to modify the game is to install stuff into your Assets folder. This means that you change the "unmodded" game directly. In other words, no mod will be loaded but you will still get the mod's functionality. Official competition such as HOF and xOTM do not allow for this because it would make it very easy to cheat (they set a game option so you can play their saves only with an unchanged Assets folder).

That last point is the reason why you might have to reverse any changes to your Assets folders to play certain games.
 
@solon70
Spoiler :
Humorously, a forest grows on the one unforested tile in my inner ring.
On turn 48 I get a great random event:

Civ4ScreenShot0090.jpg


It occurs to me that this might be a sort of distortion of how a "best ball" event is supposed to work, at least in the early going.
Those are both nice events. I'm especially fond of seeing a forest grow, but that tin event is killer.

I can see why one would think they may heavily influence which save would be used. So far, I posted the only game which has religion already, but I've explored the least amount of the map. And available saves really make it easy to see how different choices produce different outcomes.


@OTAKU
Spoiler :
Why did you want to get the Great Lighthouse out so early? As you said, you felt you weren't threatened on time. You don't get any effect when you found your second city, as that first trade route is already provided. You can't sign open borders yet, and so don't have the option for foreign trade.

And why Agriculture after Pottery?
 
I think it's absolutely fascinating to see all the subtle differences between playstyles during these early turns. After reading through the spoilers, I'm a fan of the reports which look like "Turn X: I start BW and queue up a Worker" (I did not do mine this way) because it makes it easier to compare who is doing what when. I have one substantive comment which I'll put in a spoiler.

Spoiler :
In retrospect, my games always seem to follow the same pattern: I kick around the notion of an early wonder, until I get distracted by thoughts of rushing a nearby opponent and forget all about the wonder idea. I absolutely cannot believe someone is only 3 turns from finishing the GLH at this point!! Very nice.

I honestly have no idea how anyone judges the differences between a one-city save like mine, a two-city save, or an early wonder save... should be very interesting!

I'm still not quite clear on how people plan a marble city that doesn't use any of the river tiles... the city will never grow faster than +2, will it? Seems like you can never get the benefit of any of those production tiles. On the other hand, it's awfully interesting that someone figured out a way of potentially squeezing 6 cities into this area without even messing with Saladin... I think I'm a bad dotmapper because I'm always leaving more space between my cities than I need.
 
Anyone care to read this picture and tell me what they see?
Spoiler :
Well, the first thing that surprised me was the placement of my city labeled Commerce #1. It's too close to Berlin. I'll need to move it 1SE, onto the plains hill. That's fine; with the low food over here, I'd rather settle on the plains hill than even a non-riverside grassland.

On the other hand, it's awfully interesting that someone figured out a way of potentially squeezing 6 cities into this area without even messing with Saladin...
An implication of my photo that I missed. Nice job spotting it, Solon70.

There's still more embedded in the photo. There's one particularly interesting point that I hope at least rolo spots.

With a more focused drive for the Great Lighthouse, Solon, I think you would be in one of the stronger positions. You've done more exploration, which can translate into some nice commerce once you've built the GL and opened borders. Remember to check with the AI to see if they can open borders if you still haven't teched Writing yourself.
 
@Nares

Spoiler :
With a more focused drive for the Great Lighthouse, Solon, I think you would be in one of the stronger positions. You've done more exploration, which can translate into some nice commerce once you've built the GL and opened borders. Remember to check with the AI to see if they can open borders if you still haven't teched Writing yourself.

Yeah, I think my early tech path was a little unfocused, something I need to work on. I learn a lot from this format.

I feel like I have two viable plans from my position:

(1) if I want to go forward with the axe rush, use the settler to hook up copper right now and start cranking units ASAP. Presumably there's a way to make it work, but it definitely means no early wonders. Depending on whether the map is all islands (this is why I love RandomScriptMap, you have no idea) it could really hurt to lose GLH and Colossus.

(2) if I want to go for GLH (my guess is I can probably still get it) then I don't want to found copper city as that city won't accomplish much (and its best production tile steals from Berlin). Instead, I probably want to settle on marble island and get some commerce going.

One silver lining to this map - no barbs!

 
Well this did teach me one thing. Never trust that vista actually has your game up to date.

After doing a complete uninstall and reinstall with lots of fiddling I finally got this save to load: Here are my adventures:
Spoiler :

The founding of Berlin:
BerlinFounded.jpg

4000 BC: I start research of Fishing and being building a warrior in Berlin.

3775 BC: The research of Fishing is done and I swap to Bronze Working.

3675 BC: The warrior is finished and I change production to a work boat.

2575 BC: The tile directly NW of Berlin grows a forest. Very nice. Hinduism is Founded in a Distant Land

3425 BC: Buddhism is Founded in a Distant Land

3325 BC: I meet Saladin who is the founder of Hinduism. Bronze Working is also finished and I immediately revolt to Slavery. Start research on Sailing.

3275 BC: The first work boat is completed, start work on a second boat after juggling the overflow into a worker.

2975 BC: the second work boat is completed. Since I am at size 2 I let the worker build out now to avoid any hammer decay.

2900 BC: the research on Sailing is done. I start research on Mysticism which turns out to be possibly wasteful later, but it will speed up research on Masonry if we need it.

2800 BC: The worker is finished. I start work on a third work boat. The worker starts chopping the hills.

2700 BC: Mysticism is completed. I start research on The Wheel to enable connecting Bronze as soon as possible.

2600 BC: The third work boat is finished. I start work on a lighthouse. There is some queue juggling to put a chop into a settler.

2475 BC: The Wheel is completed. I start research on Pottery. Berlin grows to size 4 so the settler jumps up in the queue.

2400 BC: The settler is finished after a 2 pop whip.

2325 BC: Hamburg founded. Starts production of a monument

2300 BC: Hamburg gets Hinduism. I decide to convert. I swap Hamburg's production to a lighthouse.

2175 BC: Pottery is completed. I start research on Writing.

2125 BC: Our generals want us to make 8 chariots.

2075 BC: Berlin's border expansion pops the goody hut for 80 gold. A forest grows to the far west of Berlin.

2000 BC: Saladin adopts Slavery. Writing will be in in 4 turns. Hamburg's borders will pop in 4 turns. The road to the copper is in place.

The world as I know it:
2000BCScreenshot.jpg
 
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