Monarchists' Cookbook I

[futurehermit]

@Nares: Well, this game was marketed as a monarch level game. So if you weren't looking for that, you were in the wrong thread

 

[Nares]

As much as it was marketed as a monarch game, it was also marketed as an instructional series.

I don't see anything instructional about breaking bad prince habits just to replace them with bad monarch habits.

I also see a clear conflict between the CSG format and determining which approach worked best.

This format allows us to 'shadow' each other round-per-round using different strategies and techniques to essentially answer "Which approach is better?" This should help us all learn how best to deal with the various circumstances that arise as well as which strategies are most likely to work given certain situations. (This is particularly important because many of the strategies and gambits that work well at Prince are more difficult and often impossible to accomplish at Monarch ... so, this format should help weed out which is which!)

 

[OTAKUjbski]

@ Nares:

Spoiler this belongs in the bullpen, but it's too late now to effectively CCP it out :

I'm sorry to see you go, but like futurehermit pointed out, this is a Monarch level game. While it's intended to be an instructional series, it's not an instructional series for "how to beat Monarch and move on to Emperor". (If it was, it would be played at the Emperor level and have a title something like "The Emperor's Writ".)

But this isn't The Emperor's Writ ... this is The Monarchist Cookbook. It's how to play and win at the Monarch level. That's it.

If we wanted to play by the Emperor rules, we'd play at the Emperor level.

----

That being said, "Instructional" doesn't mean "learn only from more experienced players" as much as it doesn't mean "teach (learn) only what works at higher levels".

We certainly invite critique and welcome better players than ourselves to share their insight, but we simply aren't limiting ourselves by playing to an Emperor level.

--------

On a personal note, I have no immediate intent of moving up to Emperor level. I occasionally play at Emperor, but I find it to be too much an exercise in tedium with particular strategic limitations and a certain amount of 'metastrategy' too much for my liking.

I enjoy Monarch level because it offers a considerable amount of strategic "wiggle room" while still being a decent challenge.

--------

It looks like any war would be conducted with rifles (and maybe cannons), when Saladin could have easily been taken with maces and trebs.

Is that a bad thing?

Last I checked, a win is a win. Just because it's not done with the 'metastrategy' doesn't mean it doesn't count or that it wasn't fun doing it.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Erm, guys... What exactly has Nares done wrong? Suggesting that we've chosen a weak plan? Or that we haven't exploited our advantages as much as we could have?

Those are exactly the kinds of comments that (a) help people to improve their understanding of the game, and (b) are overtly encouraged on this Strategy and Tips forum.

I really don't understand why you're giving him such a hard time for expressing his opinions. If you think he's wrong about something then say so. And no-one's under any obligation to take his advice.

But maybe, if you engage with what he's said (rather than just saying "this is Monarch"), you'll learn something that you can put to use in your future games, whichever difficulty you choose to play.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun with this round, and I'm looking forward to reading about everyone else's exploits (once I've posted my report, of course).

I wonder if anyone else managed to get Rifles yet...

Spoiler :

 

[Bleys]

moved comments to bullpen thread

 

[Bleys]

Moved comments to Bullpen thread

 

[OTAKUjbski]

@ All:

This avenue of discussion belongs in the bullpen.

(I encourage you CCP the comments over to there.)

 

[Bleys]

Spoiler :

I had fun this round. Saddly, I had my report almost done once, and I accidentally deleted it, argh. Here it is again, more compacted though, because I am still annoyed at my stupid mistake deleting the first one.

I started out by loading the settler on West Marble and moving him to the other island to the South. I wanted to chop that forest, and since we needed both cities sooner than later, I dont think it was too much of a waste of time. These cities are cheap to drop down because of the instant TRs. Heres Frankfurt:

When the Forge was done, I started Colossus, with every intention of sticking a settler in there for some killer overflow. Heres a pic of the overflow:

When CoL was done (someone founded Confu, no idea who, we havent met them apparently) I started CS. Shortly after that, Louis got Alpha, so I made some trades. I made a mistake here, I thought we were already in HR, so when I traded for Monotheism, I said "yes, switch to OR" without checking. Oh well, I should be close to the happy caps for now anyway, and I can switch to HR when I get CS.

Colossus is in a few turns later. One of my favorite Wonder movies and pics:

I started building some units after the trades, Archers mostly, and a few Axes over in Cologne to take that Barb City.

After Colossus, I cranked out another Workboat, and then a Library to build the GL. My idea is to pile the Wonders up in Berlin, and move the capitol, and turn Berlin into a GP farm and maybe put Globe here eventually. I will be wanting the capitol on one of those other islands.

I got the GL in Berlin (sorry no screenshot), and spread another city over to the East, and took that Barb City by Sal. My next plan is to head to the next island over ASAP with a couple settlers, get that Gold-Ivory site soon, because Cologne is going to be a decent Settler-Worker pump as well as Berlin.

For techs, after CS I went Machinery, Compass, Construction and started Paper. I settled a 2nd Prophet in Berlin, and also popped a GS which I bulbed Philo, and founded Taoism in Cologne. Sorry for the compact commentary, but I didnt feel like re-doing the whole Autolog thing. I made a couple more back-fill trades as well, and should be WELL in front of everyone for Lib.

Here is the current state of affairs in my game:

Berlin:

Western Cities:

Eastern Cities:

Tech situation:

Glance relations:

Save attached, nothing special. Sorry again for the poor report, but my spirit was dampened a bit when I read some of the thread, and then I blundered away my whole other report (it was long and had a lot of insights, ugh) and I am kinda tired and cranky.

My plan is to continue to REX the next island over, and hope Sal builds the AP since he founded Christianity. If he does, I will plan to take it from him, but its sure to be Hindu. I need to get some Missionaries out as well as more workers VERY soon. I have some solid city spots, and I think I can get many more pretty quickly. Once I finish Courthouses in the first bunch of cities, I plan to move the Capitol, and build FP in either Berlin or Munich (since it will help with Sals cities too once we take them).

 

[Diamondeye]

Wait, that link doesn't take me to OTAK's save, it takes me to r_rolo's save

Sure does, which is weird since I am pretty sure it is post 245 that is OTAKUs... does anyone know why this is?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Sure does, which is weird since I am pretty sure it is post 245 that is OTAKUs... does anyone know why this is?

Well, you're not actually linking to post 245 [of this thread] ... you're linking directly to post #6761347 (?p=6761347), which is r_rolo1's Round 1 Report.

NOTE: The "&postcount=245" is meaningless here.​

You need to link to post #6785379 (?p=6785379) ... use this link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6785379

 

[Diamondeye]

The links should be in order now, thanks OTAKUjbski

 

[futurehermit]

Spoiler :

He hasn't done anything "wrong" exactly, but he is imo expressing some emperor+ level chauvanism that I personally don't think is appropriate for this thread. Yes, we can learn from higher level players, yes we are not playing ideally. Yes, if people take our advice it may not work for them if they try to play at emperor+. Yes, there are people who are better qualified than us to teach other players. etc. etc. etc. But there are many different threads on these forums that are targetted toward specific skill levels noble to deity and this one is specific to monarch. So, if emperor+ players want to contribute, they are welcome. But if they are going to come here and talk about how this and that isn't optimal play or wouldn't work emperor+ they are welcome to take their opinions to emperor+ level game threads. That is all we are saying afaik.

Erm, guys... What exactly has Nares done wrong? Suggesting that we've chosen a weak plan? Or that we haven't exploited our advantages as much as we could have?

Those are exactly the kinds of comments that (a) help people to improve their understanding of the game, and (b) are overtly encouraged on this Strategy and Tips forum.

I really don't understand why you're giving him such a hard time for expressing his opinions. If you think he's wrong about something then say so. And no-one's under any obligation to take his advice.

But maybe, if you engage with what he's said (rather than just saying "this is Monarch"), you'll learn something that you can put to use in your future games, whichever difficulty you choose to play.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun with this round, and I'm looking forward to reading about everyone else's exploits (once I've posted my report, of course).

I wonder if anyone else managed to get Rifles yet...

Spoiler :

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Round 3: 20 BC - 730 AD (50 Turns)

I finally peeled myself away from futurehermit's 1st "Win This Game" and played the Round.

I got carried away at the end and accidentally played an extra 2 Turns to 730 AD. If Civ hadn't crashed, I might've way overplayed the Round. (It wasn't until I reloaded from the 640 save I realized the Round was almost over, lol.)

It worked out as a better stopping point than 700 AD anyway.

Spoiler :

Logging by BUG Mod 2.11 (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 172/750 (20 BC) [11-May-2008 13:18:49]
Frankfurt founded
Frankfurt begins: Granary (23 turns)
Berlin finishes: Forge

​

First things first, I settled the Great Prophet in Berlin. I mainly just wanted the production, but the Gold is always a nice 'bonus'.

Then despite the fact my Settler was standing on top of a very valuable Forest, I decided to cut my losses and settle in place.

Settling on the southern Fish Island is a good idea, but it's not something I'm going to undertake without an accompanying Work Boat, since that Fish tile is really all it has going for it.

Turn 173/750 (5 BC) [11-May-2008 13:22:10]
Berlin begins: Settler (7 turns)
Tech learned: Code of Laws

Turn 174/750 (10 AD) [11-May-2008 13:24:10]
Research begun: Music (18 Turns)
Munich grows: 2
Frankfurt finishes: Monument

​

Now some would consider reseaching Music!? next a dope move, but it's a standard practice in my bag of tricks these days.

I want it for the Great Artist, which in my mind = a Golden Age. But I also like it for the trading fodder: it's fairly expensive and offers nothing I can't afford to lose.

Turn 175/750 (25 AD) [11-May-2008 13:25:53]
Frankfurt begins: Granary (45 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Saladin(Arabia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 176/750 (40 AD) [11-May-2008 13:27:14]
Contact made: Mongolian Empire

​

So I get my Galley back to where I first noticed the brown borders to my north and learn it's none other than Kublai Khan -- the moderately kinder Mongolian leader. (NOTE: Favourite Civic = Bureaucracy!!!)

Oh yeah, The Pyramids were also completed in Portugal.

IBT:
Civics Change: Joao II(Portugal) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 177/750 (55 AD) [11-May-2008 13:30:49]
A Mine was built near Cologne
The whip was applied in Berlin
Berlin finishes: Settler

​

Here, I make a Settler -> Worker whip combo in Berlin. With a Forge and IMP, 1 pop overflow and a little 'standard' production will build a Worker in 1 Turn.

IBT:
State Religion Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 178/750 (70 AD) [11-May-2008 13:31:55]
Berlin begins: Worker (5 turns)
Berlin finishes: Worker
A Village was built near Hamburg
Cologne grows: 3

​

I hated 'wasting' overflow on a Worker instead of the Colossus, but I wanted to get a Settler and Worker east of Damascus sooner than later.

These two subsequently jumped on a Galley and made their way East. I'm hoping I can beat Saladin to the Gems/Cow/Rice/Dye spot NE of Medina. It'll be a long while before the city takes control of the Cows, but that's fine since I'm only after the Gems, Dye and Rice.

Turn 179/750 (85 AD) [11-May-2008 13:32:59]
Berlin begins: The Colossus (20 turns)
Berlin grows: 5
Cologne's borders expand

Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [11-May-2008 13:34:14]
Tech learned: Alphabet
Tech learned: Archery
Tech learned: Iron Working
A Cottage was built near Frankfurt
Cologne begins: Forge (23 turns)
Berlin begins: Axeman (5 turns)
Hamburg grows: 4
Munich finishes: Monument
Cologne finishes: Axeman

​

Here, I gave up Currency to Saladin for Alphabet, Archer and 30 Gold ... the Currency to Louis XIV for Iron Working and 40 Gold.

I knew I wouldn't get any extra trade routes with them, but my real goal is to help their economy so I can leech Gold off of them for backfill techs.

IBT:
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Louis XIV(France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Louis XIV(France) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 181/750 (115 AD) [11-May-2008 13:44:45]
Cologne begins: Lighthouse (13 turns)
Cologne begins: Granary (12 turns)
Judaism has spread: Munich


Turn 182/750 (130 AD) [11-May-2008 13:46:55]
Berlin grows: 6
Hinduism has spread: Frankfurt

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 183/750 (145 AD) [11-May-2008 13:47:39]
Cologne begins: Forge (23 turns)
Hamburg begins: Worker (18 turns)
Berlin begins: Settler (8 turns)
Munich grows: 3

Turn 184/750 (160 AD) [11-May-2008 13:49:09]
Whip anger has decreased in Berlin

IBT:
Civics Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 185/750 (175 AD) [11-May-2008 13:50:25]
A Village was built near Hamburg

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 186/750 (190 AD) [11-May-2008 13:51:46]
A Cottage was built near Frankfurt
Hamburg finishes: Lighthouse
Frankfurt's borders expand

Turn 187/750 (205 AD) [11-May-2008 13:53:08]
Hamburg begins: Library (23 turns)
The whip was applied in Berlin
Berlin finishes: Settler
Frankfurt grows: 2

​

Once again, I execute a 2pop Settler -> Worker whip in Berlin. The Worker is headed for Hamburg, and the Settler is headed for Fish Island.

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 188/750 (220 AD) [11-May-2008 13:54:47]
Berlin begins: The Colossus (10 turns)
Berlin begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
Essen founded
Essen begins: Monument (23 turns)
Berlin finishes: Worker

​

After camping my Settler for a few turns waiting for the Worker's Forest chop to complete, I founded Essen. Saladin had just dropped off a Settler, so it looks like I beat him by about 4 turns.

The Work Boat in Berlin is intended for Fish Island.

Turn 189/750 (235 AD) [11-May-2008 13:57:46]
Berlin begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
A Mine was built near Cologne
Cologne grows: 4
Essen finishes: Monument

Turn 190/750 (250 AD) [11-May-2008 13:58:19]
Essen begins: Granary (23 turns)
Tech learned: Music
Duke Ellington (Great Artist) born in Berlin

​

As expected, I made it to Music first and burned the GA on a GA.

On the same turn, I trade 2 GPT from Suleiman for 1 of my 2 Clam.

Turn 191/750 (265 AD) [11-May-2008 14:00:06]
Golden Age begins
Research begun: Compass (8 Turns)
Berlin grows: 5
Berlin finishes: Work Boat

​

I had two options here for tech research. Compass was an obvious favourite to me, because it's worth 2 health and at least 4 commerce.

However, if I gambled on a Great Merchant in Berlin, I could research a few turns of Civil Service in order to bulb it during the GA -- thus saving a turn of Anarchy switching to Bureaucracy.

I stole a page from Nares' playbook and chose Compass. (NOTE: I popped a GM after all, lol. Not a big deal, though ... they settle nicely.

IBT:
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 192/750 (280 AD) [11-May-2008 14:02:25]
Cologne begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
Berlin begins: The Colossus (6 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

​

This attitude change was because I adopted favourite civic, Hereditary Rule. This result in Open Borders (finally).

Turn 193/750 (295 AD) [11-May-2008 14:03:34]
Cologne begins: Forge (3 turns)
Cologne begins: Work Boat (4 turns)

Turn 194/750 (310 AD) [11-May-2008 14:04:39]
A Cottage was built near Frankfurt
Buddhism has spread: Hamburg
Munich grows: 4
Cologne finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 195/750 (325 AD) [11-May-2008 14:05:23]
Cologne begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
Munich's borders expand

Turn 196/750 (340 AD) [11-May-2008 14:05:59]
A Mine was built near Cologne
A Mine was built near Hamburg
Berlin grows: 6
Frankfurt grows: 3

Turn 197/750 (355 AD) [11-May-2008 14:06:45]
Dortmund founded
A Fishing Boats was built near Dortmund
Dortmund begins: Granary (23 turns)
Munich begins: Lighthouse (8 turns)
Berlin finishes: The Colossus
Cologne finishes: Work Boat

​

Yay, Colossus.

Dortmund founded on the Fish Island to the south. I accompanied the Settler by a Work Boat from Berlin, so the city was able to immediately begin growing with a strong tile.

Here, I made a mistake, and I'm not sure how much it cost me. I meant to whip the Granary on the same turn Dortmund grew to pop2 and then start on a Lighthouse. Somehow while whipping every other city excessively, I left this one out. GRRR.

I also notice Saladin has just settled a city NW of Cologne. It's not a good city, and also not where I would've wanted it, but at least it's not on a hill ... whatever ... let him build more crappy cities.

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 198/750 (370 AD) [11-May-2008 14:11:36]
Tech learned: Compass
Berlin begins: Archer (2 turns)
Berlin finishes: Archer
Munich finishes: Library

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 199/750 (385 AD) [11-May-2008 14:13:32]
A Fishing Boats was built near Cologne
Research begun: Civil Service (13 Turns)
Whip anger has decreased in Berlin
John D. Rockefeller (Great Merchant) born in Berlin
Frankfurt finishes: Granary

​

Instead of bulbing most of Civil Service, I settled the GM in the Copper city, Munich. The extra food would definitely fit nicely in Berlin, since I intend to convert it into a GP Farm later, but Munich was in more immediate need of the extra food, so ...

Spoiler a string of hard-to-interpret mis-recorded AutoLog entries :

IBT:
Contact made: American Empire
Roosevelt becomes a Vassal State of Suleiman
Contact made: Holy Roman Empire
Charlemagne becomes a Vassal State of Louis XIV
Archer 1 of Berlin (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Frankfurt begins: Lighthouse (45 turns)
Berlin begins: Archer (2 turns)
Berlin finishes: Archer
Cologne finishes: Forge
Essen finishes: Granary
Golden Age ends
Cologne begins: Axeman (4 turns)
Cologne begins: Granary (5 turns)
Essen begins: Archer (19 turns)
Berlin grows: 7
Hamburg finishes: Library
Tech learned: Calendar
Hamburg begins: Mausoleum of Maussollos (31 turns)
A Cottage was built near Frankfurt
A Cottage was built near Hamburg
Berlin begins: Archer (3 turns)
Berlin finishes: Archer
Hamburg grows: 5
Cologne grows: 5
Cologne begins: Axeman (4 turns)
Archer 2 of Berlin (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Berlin begins: Library (8 turns)
Cologne finishes: Granary
Dortmund grows: 2
Cologne begins: Swordsman (4 turns)
Cologne begins: Harbor (20 turns)
Essen grows: 2
Essen's borders expand
Cologne begins: Swordsman (20 turns)
Cologne begins: Archer (13 turns)
Berlin grows: 8
Cologne finishes: Swordsman
Berlin finishes: Library
Cologne finishes: Archer
Frankfurt grows: 4
A Hamlet was built near Frankfurt
Cologne begins: Archer (4 turns)
Cologne begins: Harbor (5 turns)
Berlin begins: The Great Library (15 turns)
Munich finishes: Lighthouse
Cologne grows: 4
Cologne finishes: Harbor
A Hamlet was built near Frankfurt
Cologne begins: Swordsman (5 turns)
A Cottage was built near Frankfurt
A Cottage was built near Hamburg
Munich begins: Harbor (7 turns)
Munich begins: Forge (10 turns)
Berlin begins: Harbor (5 turns)
Berlin grows: 7
Berlin begins: Swordsman (4 turns)
Cologne begins: Axeman (6 turns)
Cologne begins: Barracks (8 turns)
Hamburg's borders expand
Judaism has spread: Cologne
Dortmund grows: 3
Berlin begins: Archer (4 turns)
Berlin begins: Swordsman (3 turns)
Tech learned: Civil Service
Cologne grows: 3
Cologne finishes: Barracks
Research begun: Paper (1346 Turns)
Munich grows: 5
Cologne finishes: Swordsman
A Farm was built near Hsung-Nu
Cologne begins: Swordsman (6 turns)
Berlin finishes: Swordsman
Cologne grows: 4
Frankfurt grows: 5
Essen grows: 3
Christianity founded in a distant land
Archer 3 of Berlin (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Cologne begins: Archer (3 turns)
Berlin grows: 8
Hamburg grows: 6
Munich finishes: Harbor
Cologne finishes: Swordsman
Cologne begins: Swordsman (20 turns)
A Mine was built near Frankfurt
The whip was applied in Berlin
Berlin finishes: Harbor

I don't know WTH happened here to AutoLog, but a lot went down.

Suleiman spawned a colony led by Roosevelt (IND, ORG), and Louis XIV spawned a colony led by Charlemagne (PRO, IMP).

I Open Borders with both and negotiate 2 GPT from Roosevelt for 1 of my 2 Fish.

[On turn 202,] I traded Compass to KK for Calendar and 25 Gold.

[On turn 203,] I sell Priesthood to João for 70 Gold and gift Polytheism to Toku (I'm trying, lol).

[On turn 206,] João demands 60 Gold, and I accept. I then turn around and get 20 of it back by selling him Agriculture.

[On turn 206,] I execute the first of many "HR-only whips" of a Swordsman into an Archer. The overflow of a 2pop whip on a Swordsman completes the Archer, who covers the whipping unhappiness under HR. The Swordsman is then free to go crack skulls. In this particular case, the overflow is enough to complete an Archer and a partially-built Harbour.

IMG
IMG
IMG

Unfortunately, I forgot about the Barracks, which was supposed to be first, lol.

[On turn 207,] I whip a Library into the Great Library.

[On turn 211,] KK demands Currency, which I accept.

[On turn 211,] I trade CoL to Toku for 70 Gold, which gets him up to Cautious (I'm trying, lol).

[On turn 211,] I 2pop whip a Barracks in Cologne into a Swordsman.

[On turn 212,] I finish researching Civil Service and immediately adopt Bureaucracy. I then begin researching Paper.

[On turn 213,] the Hanging Gardens are complete in Lisbon.

[On turn 215,] Christianity is founded in Basra, Saladin's Cow city NW of Cologne.

Turn 217/750 (655 AD) [11-May-2008 14:57:57]
Berlin begins: The Great Library (8 turns)
Munich begins: Swordsman (7 turns)
A Cottage was built near Dortmund
Hamburg begins: Archer (7 turns)
Hamburg begins: Swordsman (10 turns)
Cologne grows: 4
A Hamlet was built near Frankfurt

IBT:
Christianity has spread: Cologne

Turn 218/750 (670 AD) [11-May-2008 14:59:20]
Berlin begins: Hindu Monastery (4 turns)
Munich begins: Archer (37 turns)
Dortmund begins: Lighthouse (45 turns)
The whip was applied in Hamburg
The whip was applied in Munich
Hamburg finishes: Swordsman
A Hamlet was built near Hamburg
Munich finishes: Swordsman
Essen finishes: Archer

Turn 219/750 (685 AD) [11-May-2008 15:01:02]
A Cottage was built near Cologne
Essen begins: Courthouse (60 turns)
The whip was applied in Cologne
Hamburg finishes: Archer
Munich grows: 4
Cologne finishes: Swordsman
Essen grows: 4
Christianity has spread: Essen
Dortmund grows: 4

Turn 220/750 (700 AD) [11-May-2008 15:03:22]
Swordsman 2 of Cologne (Swordsman) promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman 4 of Cologne (Swordsman) promoted: City Raider I
The whip was applied in Berlin
Tech learned: Paper
Berlin grows: 7
Berlin finishes: Hindu Monastery
Munich finishes: Archer
Cologne finishes: Archer
Frankfurt grows: 6

IBT:
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Louis XIV(France) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Charlemagne(Holy Rome) towards Monarchist Cookbook Game 1(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Louis XIV(France) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

​

This is where things get fun.

João demands Monarchy, and I accept. He already has the Pyramids, and it grants me another 10 turns of peace just in case.

I trade CoL to Charlemagne (yes, I know I just gave him his UB) for 50 Gold ... and to Louis XIV for 60 Gold .... and to João for 40 Gold ... and to Saladin for 180 Gold ...

... which brings them all up to Pleased ...

... which means ALL of them "Spare their World Map for a good friend" ...

... which means I just proved the world is round FOR FREE!

João is the only one not willing to even sell his World Map, but the gaping hole in my map in the middle north is enough to tell me where he is. (I can also see just by talking to him he has 5 cities hidden up there.)

I also means if I ever get around to invading them, at least some of their cities will come with a Courthouse.

Turn 221/750 (715 AD) [11-May-2008 15:06:05]
Archer 8 of Cologne (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Munich begins: Barracks (13 turns)
Research begun: Machinery (8 Turns)
Cologne begins: Archer (4 turns)
Whip anger has decreased in Cologne
Berlin finishes: The Great Library
Berlin begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Cologne grows: 4
Dortmund finishes: Granary

STATE OF THE WORLD ca 730 AD:

Spoiler :

PROS:

• Pleased with everybody but Tokugawa and Roosevelt (who can easily be made Pleased with tech trades).
• Intimate, up-to-date knowledge of everything but Portuguese territory.
• Circumnavigation bonus.
• Significant tech, GNP and MFG lead.
• Strong, stable economy (break even = 80% @ 145 BPT)
• Strong GP Farm in Berlin.
• Small stack of Swordsmen prepped to take Bactrian (Corn/Spice/Copper/Deer) on next turn.
• Strong Production Cities on both major continents.
• Saladin is the gateway to our cities. (As a CON, it will take 1 tech to get him to Friendly then likely 2 more techs to have him close his borders with another civ -- such as KK.)
• Louis XIV (and Charlemagne) can be bribed into attacking Suleiman (and Roosevelt) just in case. But not vice-versa.
• Essen is just a few turns from experiencing a significant commerce boost from Gems and Dye.

CONS:

• I'm walking a VERY delicate diplomatic tightrope. (Nearly every civ is WHEOOHRN!)
• KK is WHEOORN. (As a possible PRO, he's Pleased with us and Cautious with everyone else.)
• KK can get to us, but we can't get to KK.
• Very weak militarily -- particularly to our immediate neighbours.
• João and Saladin are both 1 tech from X-Bows, which severely limits military expansion.
• Still no Construction.
• Most military troops are on Garrison Duty to deal with heavy whipping anger (the worst of which is in Cologne and Berlin).
• I forgot to focus EP on Saladin, so I have no clue what anybody is up to anymore.
• Still no Lvl4 Unit, so the HE is currently inaccessible.

FUTURE PROSPECTS:

• Essen needs another Worker or two, which I intend to get from Marble Island.
• The Arabian coastal waters east of KK need at least two Triremes patrolling ASAP (within 10 turns) as defense against Mongolian invasion.
• All cities need a stronger Garrison ASAP (within 10 turns).
• Build NE in Berlin (after a string of Triremes, Axes and Archers).
• Settle Ivory and Gold on the large 'Colonial Continent'.
• Move Barbarian city of Angle 1S.
• Move Palace to a city on the large Colonial Continent -- possibly to the new city 1S of Angle.
• Build the Forbidden Palace in Cologne or Berlin.
• Get to Optics for Caravel defenses and subsequently send Hindu Missionaries to Louis and Suleiman.

NOTES:

• 10 more turns of peace with KK.
• Peace Probabilities:
  
  Charlemagne: 20/60/100/100
  Joao II: 20/70/100/100
  Kublai Khan: 10/50/90/100
  Louis XIV: 0/20/80/100
  Roosevelt: 10/50/90/100
  Saladin: 20/70/100/100
  Suleiman: 20/70/100/100
  Tokugawa: 10/50/90/100​
• Only 1 holy city is shrined: Lisbon with the Mahabodhi (Buddihsm - 9%).
• KK appears to be #2 in GNP.
• KK cannot be invaded until after Astronomy.
• Taoism and Islam haven't been founded; All religions have been founded in the West.
• Next GP Scheduled for 7 turns in Berlin (396/600 +33 GPP/T):
  
  
  43% (170) Great Prophet (+5 GPP/T)
  3% (12) Great Scientist (+8 GPP/T)
  43% (194) Great Merchant (+6 GPP/T)
  5% (20) Great Engineer (+3 GPP/T)​

 

[OTAKUjbski]

@ Diamondeye:

You forgot to attach the save to your Round 3 Report!

 

[Bleys]

Wow, nice set OTAK, and an amazing report. I am embarrassed by my puny effort now, LOL, but in my defense, I HAD a nice one written up and blundered it away by accident, and I am STILL annoyed at myself for it.

Killer progress though, nice trick with the maps, I usually try to do something like that once I hit Paper, its sort of why I was waiting to sell off techs, so I can have the AIs include their World Maps (I am in the middle of Paper in my game).

Yours looks stronger than mine, Diamond and I are pretty close, but you got a LOT done for your money. Vale played a strong turn too. This is getting REALLY complicated to try to digest. I need to go back and do a PRO's / CON's list for my save, I think. Thats really helpful.

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, I played this rather unfocused..... yesterday decided to dust out Medieval II TW a little and only stopped 5 am ( BTW I played it too much like Civ.... LOL ).... you can imagine how focused I am at this time.

Spoiler :

Well, started to settle the Prophet .... Beuaro is coming.

Made a OB with João... He got Hindu ( later got back to Budha ) so I took the oportunity .

Spoiler :

Later he made Mids and HG.... Lisbon clearly worths a visit from our armies later.

Spoiler :

But that is going far to the end... I got this interesting proposal:

Spoiler :

The quest in itself is a bad idea: a war for 4 unpromoted maces... but Sal has spent lots of hammers settling cities ( 4 in this turnset + one settler visible in Baghdad ), so this is putting it self heavily to the war side ( I also settled 4 cities BTW )

Some new civs in game:

Spoiler :

Liz is Suleiman vassal and Lincoln is a Louis Colony ( a big one: so far I seen a big territory in Americans hands ... Louis gave independance to ALL of his non capital cities. He's on a small island most surely )

Teched CoL-> IW -> CS.... then made the double revolt:

Spoiler :

Some wonderhogging:

Spoiler :

Collosus was not much of a necessity, but with so many Phi civs around TGL was needed if only for denial issues...

Teched Machinery and started construction.... I'm going to war soon: time to take Sal down ( maybe even a little too late: Sal is in HR. But I'm not alergic to a mace vs lbow war... ).

Some screens:

Spoiler :

My BUG log is corrupt so I can't post it

Plans:

My plan is to make war vs Sal in two phases: 1st war is to take his core island ( and raze all besides the shrines: Crappy spots ... ) and stop by there. His colonial cities are still very jungled and I prefer to let him to clean it ... if he gives indenpendance to them even better The big problem is to get the maces ready in time....

The tech pace of the game is awful... it looks Noble. Any way we play it this will be mop up at combustion ( I clearly plan to take this down via conquest ... I love this kind of maps for Island hopping ).

Sorry for the sloppy game and sloppy report... but I'm clearly not in my best shape today

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I need to go back and do a PRO's / CON's list for my save, I think. Thats really helpful.

Well, right off hand, I can give you a few things to put in the PRO column:

A LOT of tech.
A significant tech lead on every civ (i.e., you didn't whore it out like I did).
Still have Music open. (Assuming your unknown civ in brown hasn't or isn't going to beat you to it, Music = GA!)
Only Louis XIV is WHEOORN, but given the distance probably not against you.
3 Turns from completing 2 Harbours. (~ +7 CPT)
Very little whipping anger.
You have Macemen and Catapults, meaning your Round 4 could include war or be a prequel to war.

As cons:

I wish you would've made more effort to grab resources -- particularly one of the only Gem/Dye combos on the map.
Sitting Bull is a PoS (not your fault).
Still no contact with the Brown civ.
The 2 new satellite cities are "meh" cities. (Dortmund and Hsung-Nu. NOTE: Cows are abundant and thus poor trading fodder.)

--------

By comparison to my pros & cons, your save has fewer cons (and none are potentially "life threatening").

 

[Winston Hughes]

Sorry for the delay. I went on a date with an attractive OCD sufferer, but ended up on the run from the law after accidentally shooting seventeen (or so) police officers to death.

Thankfully my friend has now taken back his shiny new x-box, and I can get on with posting my report for round 3.

Strategic overview:

Spoiler :

After looking more closely at the position OTAKUjbski left us with, I was a little apprehensive. Having played a shadow to this point, where I'd killed Sal and had seven cities already, it took me a few minutes to fully appreciate the potential of our situation.

In any case, I decided that this was not a time for dramatic actions. A steady, forward-looking approach seemed the better plan, setting things up for some more daring moves in subsequent rounds.

Looking at our potential victory options, diplomatic could turn out to be the best choice. There's tons of land to expand into, and plentiful food there too, meaning we have a good chance to build a huge population by peaceful means (if you discount all the barbs we'll have to slaughter).

Having access to so many AI civs this early also means we have a long time to build strong relations. With a decent tech lead, we should be able to manufacture a few wars for those mutual struggle bonuses. And our geographical position means we might do this without putting ourselves in any real danger, whilst keeping only a modest military.

Although I have by no means settled on diplomatic at this time, I did play the round with that possibility in mind. My rough plan was to build relations with the AI civs wherever possible, to ready the nascent German empire for a massive expansion in the coming rounds, and to set my long-term tech sights on the potentially lethal combination of Astronomy and Chemistry.

The idea, speculative as it may be, is to build an enormous population while stifling AI growth with Privateers, espionage, and war (AI vs AI, with us sitting back and racking up the diplo points).

The round:

Spoiler :

I began by settling the Prophet in Berlin and founding Frankfurt in that controversial spot 3S of the capital. With the marble city preventing settlement of my favoured site, I decided that I would simply choose the place with the most food potential. Being able to work those clams (when not needed by Berlin) would help get things going.

As you can see, after completing CoL I went straight for CS - our capital is too important not to get Bureaucracy online asap.

After knocking out a settler for South Island, and a couple of workboats for the remaining seafood, a lot of my production in this round was dedicated to units - archers in particular:

I wanted to get the cities growing, and archers are the cheapest way of getting the necessary (short of disconnecting the copper, which did cross my mind). The boost to our defenses and power rating was welcome too. An attack is very unlikely, but it's good to have a bit of a deterrent in case of unexpected developments.

Having traded for Alphabet from Saladin, I spent much of the rest of the round begging from, and selling techs to, the AI. Here are a couple of fairly typical eamples:

The tech sales brought in a lot of cash over the course of the round, keeping the slider up high most of the time, as well as boosting relations which, in turn, allowed me to beg for more cash.

Some of that cash came in very handy indeed when I got this annoying event:

Losing the forge right now would've been a real pain, not least because it would've delayed my only world wonder of the round:

Looking to maximise GPP, I also built the National Epic in Berlin. I popped two more Prophets this round, both of which were settled in the capital like the first.

To the east, Cologne soon had a little brother:

And by the end of the round, I had delivered another settler and transported him across to the large continent, landing on the penultimate turn. I didn't settle him yet, so he could be moved elsewhere if my save was chosen:

Oh, and this guy showed up in 460ad:

Not sure what Louis was thinking there. It looks like the two of them are going to compete for the SE corner of the big continent.

The current position:

Spoiler :

Cities: 7 (+1 settler)
Total Pop: 33
Notable Techs: CS, Machinery, Compass, Calendar; 3 turns from Philosophy
Wonders: Great Library and National Epic in Berlin
Settled GPs: 3 Prophets in Berlin

Berlin:

I'm hoping for a Great Scientist to build an Academy, but anything would be useful. An Engineer could be saved to rush the Forbidden Palace in a choice spot on the big continent. Any of the others and I'd probably go for a golden age. A culture bomb on the big continent could be fun, though.

The German homeland:

I've farmed Frankfurt for the time being, so it can help pump out settlers and other units for the land grab.

The south:

I made a mistake with the placement of Essen, totally forgetting about the Whales.

New Germany:

The Maceman in Cologne is intended for barb defence/hunting on the big continent, but the city is at its happy cap at the moment, so I was thinking of bringing the archer down from Dortmund (leaving that city undefended for a short while).

Diplomatic Relations:

Things are looking good for the chances of a diplomatic win, and they'd be even better if we could engineer a mutual war against Toku (and maybe, later on, against Sully or Louis).

Techs:

I imagine other saves will have a slightly bigger lead than this, thanks to all my tech selling. It's still a very solid lead, though.

Units:

Demographics:

Edit: Oops, I misnamed the save - that should be Round 3, not Round 2. Sorry.

 

[Bleys]

A LOT of tech.
A significant tech lead on every civ (i.e., you didn't whore it out like I did).
Still have Music open. (Assuming your unknown civ in brown hasn't or isn't going to beat you to it, Music = GA!)
Only Louis XIV is WHEOORN, but given the distance probably not against you.
3 Turns from completing 2 Harbours. (~ +7 CPT)
Very little whipping anger.
You have Macemen and Catapults, meaning your Round 4 could include war or be a prequel to war.

I left Music for a bit, intending to get it shortly after Paper, hoping to pop a GS to help me through Education.

Louis is probably coming for me, though, I refused a tribute. He doesnt scare me though, I plan to have plenty of units on both those islands.

I am planning a war with Saladin very soon, mostly because by the time I got a settler over to the new island, he had already scarfed one gem-dye spot on me. In fact, he grabbed it FAST in my game (was it already settled when I started? I cant remember now, been playing a LOT of different games today), I sent a single Ax up to scout the area and he was there. I never really considered the northern one, see my reasoning below.

As cons:

I wish you would've made more effort to grab resources -- particularly one of the only Gem/Dye combos on the map.
Sitting Bull is a PoS (not your fault).
Still no contact with the Brown civ.
The 2 new satellite cities are "meh" cities. (Dortmund and Hsung-Nu. NOTE: Cows are abundant and thus poor trading fodder.

Looking back at my play, my BEST bet may have been delaying the Fish Island city until a workboat, like you did, and busting that settler from the Marble island up to the dye-gem site ASAP. I think I have a fear of a disconnected empire, heh, I really didnt even consider putting a city on that northern gem-dye spot, Jaoa is already up there, and Sals culture is strong in that area. I like keeping my empire more tidy, my cultural borders touching. I am already wanting to pound Sal because hes "in between", LOL.

That would probably have worked out well, next settler grabs the other half of Marble after chopping, and the Fish Island can be settled when I have a boat to jump-start it out of the gate. As it was, I settled that other city by the cows, but I made that one as a feeder for units against Sal more than anything (plains hill, workshopable after Guilds/Caste switch, farms can be chained in).

Oh well, one of these rounds I think we will be stomping Sal. I fear I have a more military oriented style of play, my diplomacy sucks, and my builder-tendencies all gravitate to war (I like fast forges, barracks, and then an attack force, I play every LHC as a "Conquer Challenge", etc, heh). But you can see that I went right for the military techs again, 2 rounds in a row now, I just cant seem to think outside that box.

My exploration is also lacking. You made a few galleys, and I didnt take much advantage of that at all.

In many ways, this format is actually harder than normal SGs. In a normal SG, the group usually discusses a plan, so that when your turn pops, you have a general idea of what direction to take. Shorter turn sets also mean less likelihood of straying. Sure I may build a few Barracks and Stables on my set, but that never hurts in an SG. Here, however, I keep trying to fit the round peg into the square hole.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

... I keep trying to fit the round peg into the square hole.

Well, at least you're not trying to fit the square peg in the triangle hole like I seem to be doing.

I feel like I have a lot going for my save, but I think I might be teetering precariously on the edge of diplomatic insanity.

And like my Round 2 submission, I'm again very committed to a peaceful approach, which is also clearly displayed in my technology choices and [lack of] military presence.

Your save, on the other hand, has a [military] tech lead lightly based in technology trading, so the few techs you don't have [by comparison] can be easily acquired through a few smooth trades (and will likely also come with +diplo points).

Similarly, I doubt any of us won't circumnavigate the globe upon completing Paper. (We only really need the maps of Suleiman and Kublai Khan.)


-- my 2