Monarchists' Cookbook I

[Winston Hughes]

Whoops ... I'm hoping that's my only mistake.

I've got 1202 beakers in Philosophy. Shouldn't that be a partial?

Edit: hehe, I just noticed that you stole my 1202 for yourself!

Edit2: You also missed my Great Library!!

 

[Diamondeye]

I find all these statistics very nice OTAKU, and I'd like you to keep it up if that's not too much trouble.

That said, a few issues:
1) You misplaced Winstons 1202 in Philo to your own column,
2) You have not noted years, this might be fine for comparison (my own save is a good example, although not all of my lacking backwards economically can be explained by those few turns less). This also concerns inflation rates...

 

[futurehermit]

In terms of the chart I think you are missing a very important element: # of cities

 

[vale]

He has it (it is in the demographics) just hard to spot as it is pretty tiny.

 

[futurehermit]

Ah ok. I think the stats posted can be a bit misleading. For those of us that have 9 cities, our maintenance is going to be higher, and thus our breakeven is going to be lower. However, I don't plan on running at break-even, I plan on running at a deficit, trading tech for cash, etc. I'm certainly not planning on running at 40% science. I'm sure Vale isn't either.

@OTAKU: Good work on the tables though, they are great for comparison

 

[Bleys]

Wow, outstanding charts OTAK. Thats a lot of work you put in, you must be a computer number cruncher in your RL job or something, heh.

Hard to digest, though. I was going to post my preferences today, but I may wait now. I only grabbed a couple saves, more are up now too.

 

[Bleys]

Oh, a question for those of you who are getting problems with the AutoLog. Are you changing the name in "Your Details", then saving the game, and re-starting, to create a fresh, empty log file for that round? Thats what I have been doing, and it seems to be working out pretty well. I notice a lot of log problems this round, so I wonder if its getting corrupt from the name, mixing with other previous logs or whatever.

 

[futurehermit]

i'm getting crashes with autolog, but haven't done the workaround you suggest. i'm probably too lazy to try it out

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I just updated all the images (same post) with some of the requested and required changes.

CLICK HERE for the charts post.

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I think if they're taken at 'face value', they can be very misleading. As futurehermit pointed out, you have to know what you're looking at and make your own inferences in some cases.

Another example of the GPT/BPT being misleading is when compared against the AI's standings. While I have a lot of tech and a strong economy, my strongest rival is just 39% and 4 techs behind me. Meanwhile, Bleys has the most tech, the 2nd strongest economy and a minimum tech lead of +51% GNP and 7 techs.​

That's why I've tried to include as much data as possible. But again, you really do have to look at the saves to get the real picture.

EDIT: Oh yeah ... I'm not satisfied with the resources display. That was supposed to be the and indicator, but I realize it's really not that helpful.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm seeing from the OTAKU charts that some of you are clearly gunning to Lib in next turnset..... but what are you thinking on Lib? No one has Optics ,so a astro lib may not be in hand. none of the saves has a good drafting center possibility ( OTAKU mentioned that he wanted KK capital for that... ), so no great rush for Natio ( besides a marble boosted Taj ).... Other options would require a bigger time to go ( like Lib Steel , that probably would be a stronger move than Astro in this map ).

So what is your goal regarding lib, my friends with Paper and Philo ?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I only wanted Paper for the Maps and the circumnavigation bonus so I can ferry units around and expand more quickly.

I'm thinking Steel from Liberalism, but if we're still stomping on the AI at that time, I'll undoubtedly hold it at 1 Turn trying for Physics or Biology.

 

[Winston Hughes]

A couple of thoughts inspired by OTAKU's excellent (although still lacking my Great Library) statistical review:

Given that it's one of our biggest potential advantages, I'm quite surprised that no-one else went big on the GPP.

The points from wonders are all well and good, but without the National Epic and/or a load of specialists the effect isn't very impressive, even with the Parthenon. But I'm glad to see a couple of players (vale and Bleys) have gone for Philosophy - with Pacifism thrown into the mix as well, we'll have the chance to build a very impressive rate of GP generation.

This does lead, I'm afraid, to one of my criticisms of some wonderspam strats - by focusing on whipping and/or working hammer tiles to get the wonders built, the actual GP rate often ends up significantly slower than if you just built a couple of choice wonders and ran some specialists.

Looking at obsolete's method, one of the key things I picked up was to focus on Priest and Engineer specialists, as these provide both hammers and GPP, with the resulting (settled) Great People adding to the city's production too. I would suggest that those of you who want to continue spamming wonders in this game think about getting Angkor Wat built asap, and then using Priests to provide hammers whilst keeping the GPP flowing.

An alternative, on some maps, is to run a NE-powered GP farm alongside the wonderspammed capital. Unfortunately, on this map, I think it would be a while before we had a city ready to perform that role for us.

Also, I'm a little confused by the golden ages OTAKU and Diamondeye went for.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until we've got more cities up and running? After all, we're neither struggling to keep up nor trying to do a super-fast buildup for war, so why not hold off until there's a real purpose to the GA?

Or have I (once again) missed something obvious?

ps. Astronomy from Lib asap was my plan. It'll preserve our our trade routes and resource supplies in case of war (or other serious diplomatic complications) with Sal, and will make any wars or land grabs much easier. There may also be some juicy untouched islands out there. (btw, I was thinking about going for Optics next - there's always the chance of popping Astro from a hut).

 

[Bleys]

The NE and Pacifism were in my plans for the next rounds for sure, as well at deciding which path to take for my Lib tech. I bulbed Philo from my first GS, figuring to Academy my next one, and bulb part of Education with a third.

While I am gunning for Lib, Oxford is more my current "goal".

My tech lead is also a decieving stat, since I have not given away any techs to demands or requests, and thusly am only Pleased with 1 AI, Saladin. I am stingy that way, unless I feel I have something to fear from an AI, I rarely give in to their requests. Instead, what I often do, is refuse the request, then sell them the tech they asked for if they have cash, trying to offset the negative "You refused to help us" with a positive "Our trade relations" thing. Doesnt work all the time, but once in a while if you sell em cheap it seems to help that Trade Relations diplomacy modifier. I dont know the workings of it though, so I may be totally in left field, heh. But I have no fears at all from the AIs, units are getting built, and I plan to have decent stacks on both new islands, one for Sal and one to get those Barb cities eventually.

As for Golden Ages, I was hoping to build MoM soon, its the only WW I wanted other than Taj (eventually), and planning to sit on the Artist from Music (if I got it, that is) until MoM was built, and use the Golden Age from that GA with MoM to build Universities quickly. Its a tactic I use quite a bit these days, I just love those 15 turn Golden Ages.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Oxford is more my current "goal".

I'm not sure about Oxford as a major objective, at least from what I'm seeing on this map.

We're doing very well in tech already, so expansion and production are the things we need to focus on imo. Universities are not cheap, and we'd be looking at having to build them (and, in many cases, Libraries too) in some undeveloped or very low-production cities.

Also, if we're going for a massive land-grab then the Forbidden Palace could be much more beneficial to our overall economy, especially since those Courthouses will be needed anyway (whereas the Libraries and Universities may be unnecessary in some of the places we build them).

 

[Bleys]

Good point, I should consider ensuring a couple more important National Wonders before closing in on Oxford. Kneejerk reaction, probably, I almost never feel like I have "enough" of a tech lead, heh. I thoroughly enjoy Rifles, Cannons, and Destroyers against LBs and Caravels. In my normal games, Oxford is the cherry that puts me over the top of the pile.

Of course, I totally agree that we are out-teching the AIs by an unusual amount in this game, and I also agree its because of most of their nasty starting locations. A focus on a more consolidating approach is a solid plan. FP, even moving the Cap if deemed advantageous, is a much more viable goal.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Also, I'm a little confused by the golden ages OTAKU and Diamondeye went for.

Habit. (In this case a bad one.)

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On the topic of moving the Palace and/or building the Forbidden Palace ...

I think the Barbarian city Angle would be better placed 1S and would make a great location to move the Palace to. It's on the largest landmass, has great Commerce potential and is centrally located.

Forbidden Palace should either be built in the 'old world' or in Cologne.

 

[Solon70]

Gah, I was going to thank you for adding me to the chart, until I noticed that I forgot to revolt to Bureaucracy. How embarrassing.

It's impressive to see, though, that I've topped all the roster players in one important metric - I've met more civs than anyone else! Hah!

 

[Solon70]

On the topic of moving the Palace and/or building the Forbidden Palace ...

I think the Barbarian city Angle would be better placed 1S and would make a great location to move the Palace to. It's on the largest landmass, has great Commerce potential and is centrally located.

Forbidden Palace should either be built in the 'old world' or in Cologne.

As far as the choice between moving the Palace or building the FP, what is the difference? In other words, what factors would lead one to prefer one or the other?

 

[Artichoker]

As far as the choice between moving the Palace or building the FP, what is the difference? In other words, what factors would lead one to prefer one or the other?

The Forbidden Palace requires Code of Laws and Courthouses...and it doesn't make that city your capital. For instance, if you wanted to leverage the Bureaucracy bonus for a different city, then building FP wouldn't help you in that regard.

The Palace, on the other hand, can be built long before you even get Code of Laws. It makes that city your new capital, which means that the former capital loses the Palace that it previously had!

 

[r_rolo1]

Palace is cheaper hammerwise.... so it might be a good idea to build the FP near the old capitol ( in a already established city ) and make the palce in the new lands .

And there is always the Beuaro factor..... if you have a perfect spot for a beauro capital, it is far better to make the palace there