Monarchy or Representation?

[Ramesses-Rules]

Normally, when I build Pyramids, I switch to Representation. However, in my current game, I am stuck on an island. I had Stone in Thebes, so I built Stonehenge, Oracle, and Pyramids (in that order). I chose Monarchy as my free tech with Oracle. My population grew to 8 by the time I built Pyramids. If I switch to Representation immediately, I will have an unhappy worker. I can fix that by building another War Chariot before switching to Representation. But, for the longer term, is it better on an Island game to be in Representation or Monarchy? I know TMIT swears by Monarchy in general, but what about this situation? Any advice?

 

[fyermind]

I tend to prefer representation if I have only a few high food cities or if I am philosophical or if I am for some other reason planning on running lots of scientists with smaller populations. However Monarchy encourage having a large military standing around which you need anyway if you have aggressive neighbors. Plus you will be going to war at some point anyway. If I need to keep my power graph high (especially in the vassalage eras) and am otherwise stuck with a low happy cap monarchy is a godsend letting me work more cottages. The real question is almost just CE or SE.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I swear by monarchy because mids are usually too expensive to be worth it.

You're in isolation and you already have the wonder. Use rep; the +3 is cheaper than 3 units/5 city. Grow into unhappy working specs then whip down for infra. Get meeting civs for luxuries ASAP.

Just remember that each of those wonders comes with the opportunity cost of not enjoying cities working strong tiles instead during the opening turns.

Oracle for monarchy and then building mids is sloppy. If you were going to grab mids, you probably should have picked up CoL; cheap temple + religion would have been an additional +2 per city that would have helped. You should have known you were in iso before you had to commit...and CoL gives a useful building too once you're done with granary/library. You can also run OR or Pacifism that way, something you can't do in iso without founding a religion (usually you can just vulture an AI religions to get all the benefits by using whatever is most diplomatically safe). With +5 happy you could really have worked serviceable sizes + beakers from rep.

Monarchy units to do what? What are you growing into? Non riverside non FIN cottages blow if you have to build a unit just to work each one, outside maybe bur cap. Power tiles are good but you're not going to have 4+. Probably specs or build wealth/research then, don't need too many units for that.

Don't discount theater + coli + culture slider as a stopgap either, especially if going with rep.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I usually can't turn down rep because the boost in research is like zomgz. Also the happiness from rep doesn't come with maintenance costs for the extra garrisons needed.

So if I actually build the pyramids, it's gonna be rep. If I'm getting Monarchy, it's probably better to just expand normally and self tech it. Unlike constitution, monarchy isn't that far away.

 

[karadoc]

If you already have the pyramids, use representation. Maybe monarchy will let you grow your cities a little bit bigger, but representation will make your citizens more productive - and it provides a big chunk of happiness anyway. If you're pushing up against the happiness cap, then use some of your food to run representation-boosted specialists. Those specialists will give more commerce than most workable plots anyway.

 

[plasmacannon]

Oracle CoL or MC.
After Pyramids, switch to Rep.
Unless, you have alot of wine nearby, Monarchy can usually wait.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Mids on Monarch is also known as "fail gold".

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Mids on Monarch is also known as "fail gold".

What is "mids"?

 

[s.bernbaum]

Pyra"mids"

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Pyra"mids"

And what does he mean by "fail gold"?

 

[s.bernbaum]

"fail gold" is the money (gold) that you get when you can't finish building a wonder because someone else beat you to it. The amount depends on how many hammers you have already put into it. Some players purposely build a wonder to get fail gold. If it looks like they might actually succeed in building it, they'll put other things ahead of it in the queue until someone else finally builds it and causes them to get the gold instead.

 

[GGracchus]

"fail gold" is the money (gold) that you get when you can't finish building a wonder because someone else beat you to it. The amount depends on how many hammers you have already put into it. Some players purposely build a wonder to get fail gold. If it looks like they might actually succeed in building it, they'll put other things ahead of it in the queue until someone else finally builds it and causes them to get the gold instead.

This is a very effective strategy to run 100% science while expanding.

 

[karadoc]

If you have the wonder resource (eg. stone), then 'fail gold' is better value than building wealth directly. I sometimes stop building a wonder just before completing it, and then start building it a different city so that I can get double the fail gold...

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

If you have the wonder resource (eg. stone), then 'fail gold' is better value than building wealth directly. I sometimes stop building a wonder just before completing it, and then start building it a different city so that I can get double the fail gold...

Okay, but you don't really get double, because your two cities have a different number of turns invested. Right? Would the "fail gold" strategy work after an early rush when your economy is struggling but you don't have anything useful to build in your city (such as Library because you don't have Writing yet)? Sometimes, all I can build after an early rush is more military, which simply makes the economy worse.

 

[plasmacannon]

The exact amount you would earn would depend on how many turns spent building it in each city.
If, you leader is IND you get a +50% bonus production.
If, you have access to stone, you have another +100% bonus for wonders like Stonehenge or the Great Wall.
That is a huge advantage already.
If, you have time to do this in multiple cities, then, the gold earned can be decient, considering Currency has not been researched yet, and no other Trait has the +50% bonus from IND.

 

[vranasm]

Okay, but you don't really get double, because your two cities have a different number of turns invested. Right? Would the "fail gold" strategy work after an early rush when your economy is struggling but you don't have anything useful to build in your city (such as Library because you don't have Writing yet)? Sometimes, all I can build after an early rush is more military, which simply makes the economy worse.

I once got around 600 gold with ToA+marble abuse, but that was on Emperor...

sometimes it is kind of frustrated when you wait for the fail gold and the wonder doesn't come in the timeframe you need (like for example in the cited game where I had enough time to invest some hammers in I think 3 cities)

and for the question, yes it is one of the ways how to recover after crashing the economy.

Ah and last thing, kossin promotes doing the same with national wonders like Hermitage, moai even NE can be a little bit abused, or HE. Depends if you got marble/stone.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I once got around 600 gold with ToA+marble abuse, but that was on Emperor...

sometimes it is kind of frustrated when you wait for the fail gold and the wonder doesn't come in the timeframe you need (like for example in the cited game where I had enough time to invest some hammers in I think 3 cities)

and for the question, yes it is one of the ways how to recover after crashing the economy.

Ah and last thing, kossin promotes doing the same with national wonders like Hermitage, moai even NE can be a little bit abused, or HE. Depends if you got marble/stone.

Okay, I am going to experiment with this some. As for which wonder to choose, I have noticed that for early wonders the AI prioritizes Oracle over Pyramids and Artemis over Parthenon.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Okay, I am going to experiment with this some. As for which wonder to choose, I have noticed that for early wonders the AI prioritizes Oracle over Pyramids and Artemis over Parthenon.

The AI is smart in the case of Oracle and not so smart in the case of ToA. That makes ToA and 'mids good failgold options if you're more desperate for tech/gold than units, don't have currency yet, and do have some bonus for construction (or chop gold).

I'd rather build Oracle than failgold that one though.

 

[GGracchus]

Okay, I am going to experiment with this some. As for which wonder to choose, I have noticed that for early wonders the AI prioritizes Oracle over Pyramids and Artemis over Parthenon.

ToA is one usual failgold wonder, mids is the other if you aren't going to gain a boost from Rep.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The problem with some of these is that you have to research junk techs to access the gold. Try to prioritize techs that actually help the growth curve.

Pyramids are overrated. I read a snippet from Snaaty recently where he was over on one of the German forums, they did a comparison. City #2 had stone available. City spam + scientist beat actually building the pyramids (comparison was who reached constitution first). Pyramids CAN be useful, but you'd better make @#$% sure you know what you're doing before committing that many early resources there. At least over time the forum has been less high on them...people have learned a bit.