Mongolia and other unlocked Civs - that bad ?

[Kev1916]

Btw looking at recent game play regarding the much maligned Civ switching , is it right that on the move from your starting "Civ" to the 2nd one , you have three "choice's" ? thou two are locked !
One based on resources the other leader based ( whatever that is )

What happens if you do not have access to 3 horse units - you then cant play Mongolia? Do you have to re-start if the RNG doesn't go your way.
Also will this lock be in place for the third morph?

 

[pokiehl]

I don't think it's revealed if there's a limit on how many choices you can have. Whatever limits we saw in previews might just be the limitations of the build.

My assumption is you'll have the full "menu" to choose from at face value, but your choices will be guided and limited by how your game went.

I also assume that's how it'll work for the 2nd shift to the Modern Era.

 

[Siptah]

Btw looking at recent game play regarding the much maligned Civ switching , is it right that on the move from your starting "Civ" to the 2nd one , you have three "choice's" ? thou two are locked !
One based on resources the other leader based ( whatever that is )

What happens if you do not have access to 3 horse units - you then cant play Mongolia? Do you have to re-start if the RNG doesn't go your way.
Also will this lock be in place for the third morph?

I assume you could trade for the horses? It is FXS after all, a company that is famous for not wanting to penalize players.

 

[thecrazyscot]

From what we know so far, you'll have multiple options for switching civs:

• Option(s) unlocked by your current civ choice
• Option(s) unlocked by your leader choice
• Option(s) unlocked by gameplay goals

So you'll likely end up with more than 3 options to choose from in any given game, including a more "historical" path as well as more fanciful paths.

 

[Professor Phobo]

I don't think we know the full details or limits yet. A lot of unanswered questions about how the system works.

 

[Kev1916]

The screen shot from play had 3 choices

1) Unlocked by Civ Egypt - morph into Songhai
2) locked requires 3 horses
3) Leader based unlock if available

And yes you may get to trade or steal but I would hesitate to call them "choices" if the RNG goes against you.

Having to re-start a game just to play Mongolia doesn't sound the best idea , also are the later options also locked

 

[pokiehl]

I think you're asking if there's an "RNG" element to who you get to pick. The short answer is yes - we know there are picks unlocked by the player fulfilling certain conditions. No two games are a like in a game with randomized maps like Civ. I think it's more fun that way. Every playthrough will be different.

 

[Kev1916]

I think you're asking if there's an "RNG" element to who you get to pick. The short answer is yes - we know there are picks unlocked by the player fulfilling certain conditions. No two games are a like in a game with randomized maps like Civ. I think it's more fun that way. Every playthrough will be different.

Never thought about it like that, sadly that makes it lol worse for me.

Randomised maps are one thing but random Civs with one constant leader aint tickling my fancy

 

[pokiehl]

Randomised maps are one thing but random Civs with one constant leader aint tickling my fancy

I can definitely see some disappointment if you start a new game and you're excited to play the Mongols but don't get the horses to do so. Maybe there will be a "last-ditch" mechanic where you can try to fulfill some other condition (sacrifice enough gold or something) to brute-force your choice anyway.

On the other hand, I think that'll at least encourage players to try new things...

 

[thecrazyscot]

Never thought about it like that, sadly that makes it lol worse for me.

Randomised maps are one thing but random Civs with one constant leader aint tickling my fancy

Hmm, I'm pretty sure that there will always be certain civ choices unlocked for you, based upon your starting civ choice and your leader choice. So if you want to guarantee a certain Exploration or Modern Age civ you can do so with your choice of starting civ.

For example, we know that if you play as Egypt you are guaranteed to unlock the Abbasid and Songhai choices for the Exploration Age. If you choose Songhai, then you are guaranteed the Buganda choice for the Modern.

We just don't know what Mongolia's civ precursor would be, or if Mongolia is only unlocked via the horse resource. Potentially if Genghis Khan were a leader, you could also guarantee Mongolia shows up as one of your choices just by picking him.

Does that make sense?

 

[pokiehl]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure that there will always be certain civ choices unlocked for you, based upon your starting civ choice and your leader choice. So if you want to guarantee a certain Exploration or Modern Age civ you can do so with your choice of starting civ.

Oh duh...that makes a lot of sense. Didn't occur to me.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I don't think it's revealed if there's a limit on how many choices you can have. Whatever limits we saw in previews might just be the limitations of the build.

My assumption is you'll have the full "menu" to choose from at face value, but your choices will be guided and limited by how your game went.

I also assume that's how it'll work for the 2nd shift to the Modern Era.

The list may only show the options you qualify for. So perhaps Egypt gets Mongolia on the list because it has three horses, and Songhei because it’s on a river, etc.

If you have three iron maybe you get to be Rome

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I don't think we know the full details or limits yet. A lot of unanswered questions about how the system works.

Given how much frenzied discussion it has spawned, we know very little about exactly how "Civ Switching" will work in-game:
We don't know what our choices are going to be except for a few examples, and we don't know exactly how those choices are unlocked or arrived at - or limited.
We don't know how much variation in choice will be based on in-game actions and play in the previous Age or coping with the previous Crisis.
We don't know how much influence we can have on the configuration of the new Civ we chose, or our Leader as he/she takes over, or much of anything else about the interaction of the Legacies with the new Age.

One pattern I've already noticed. In Humankind trhere were elements of your previous choice in Civs that carried over for the rest of the game, so that in fact by the time you reached the late game you were playing at least a Semi-Customized Civ based on all your previous choices as well as you current choice.

Civ VII hints that Legacies and other 'carry-overs' may do the same thing and at least Semi-Customize your choiices based on what has happened and what you have accomplished or chosen in that particular game.

But in neither Humankind nor, as far as I've seen, in Civ VII has anybody talked much about this. Yet this kind of in-game Customization effect is, IMHO, critical to making any kind of Civ Switching work: if your actions have absolutely no effect on the next Age/Civ choice, it trivializes a great deal of the game play that went before, and negatively impacts the importance of any choice since it makes any matching of the Civ's attributes to your situation strictly Random Chance.

 

[pokiehl]

The list may only show the options you qualify for. So perhaps Egypt gets Mongolia on the list because it has three horses, and Songhei because it’s on a river, etc.

If you have three iron maybe you get to be Rome

Yeah, that could be it. I just don't think there's going to be some arbitrary numerical limit--like everyone can only ever pick from 3 civs at once.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Yeah, that could be it. I just don't think there's going to be some arbitrary numerical limit--like everyone can only ever pick from 3 civs at once.

That would be awful, and you would run into so many issues as to why certain civs become others, not least of which is the “Aztecs become Mexico is genocide” debate

Making it situational based on things like what you did or built that era, or what the map around you is like is something I’ve wanted since at least Civ4

It gets around things like picking Russia and spawning at the equator with no tundra or whatever

It also fits the “evolve and adapt” tagline, or whatever the precise wording is for this game

 

[Kev1916]

"But in neither Humankind nor, as far as I've seen, in Civ VII has anybody talked much about this. Yet this kind of in-game Customization effect is, IMHO, critical to making any kind of Civ Switching work: if your actions have absolutely no effect on the next Age/Civ choice, it trivializes a great deal of the game play that went before, and negatively impacts the importance of any choice since it makes any matching of the Civ's attributes to your situation strictly Random Chance."


That's my worry as everything about Civ 7 screams that it was designed more for consoles and playing on a TV 5-10 feet away rather than on a PC monitor with mouse and keyboard.
It would make sense then to treat this as three separate games for casual play and a few hours multi play with pals on Xbox Switch.

Everything from hard cap on city limits to a pretty awful UI suggests to that my wee lad may find this more fun than me

 

[pokiehl]

That's my worry as everything about Civ 7 screams that it was designed more for consoles and playing on a TV 5-10 feet away rather than on a PC monitor with mouse and keyboard.
It would make sense to treat this as three separate games for casual play and a few hours multi play with pals on Xbox Switch

I hear your concerns, but doesn’t this set up create some interesting choices?

I really want to play as the Mongols but I want to use Hatshepsut’s leader bonuses.

So my choices are:

1. Give up Hatshepsut and pick Genghis to guarantee I can select the Mongols
2. Roll the dice with Hatshepsut and dedicate my Antiquity Age to getting horses, which will also lead to an interesting emergent narrative for myself and of course tension

That sounds like a fun kind of tension to have with decision making.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

i don’t think it would make sense for certain civs to permanently be locked behind certain requirements no matter who or what you’re playing. That would prob piss off those of us who are already unsure about the civ switching mechanic even more.

Like @thecrazyscot said, seems like the three ways to unlock a civ are

1) play as the historical leader (the ben franklin route), or the leader who fills the closest niche in the case of civs without leaders (amina for songhai route)

2) play as a civ that gets direct evolution into the civ you want (egypt to abassids route) — for mongolia this might be a civ like Scythia, Sogdia, etc.

3) Fulfill the civ’s unlock criteria if you don’t have 1) or 2), (the 3 horses route)

I’m assuming every civ will have at least one historical or ahistorical leader unlock, 1-2 direct civ unlocks, and criteria for gameplay-based unlocks

 

[Kev1916]

I hear your concerns, but doesn’t this set up create some interesting choices?

I really want to play as the Mongols but I want to use Hatshepsut’s leader bonuses.

So my choices are:

1. Give up Hatshepsut and pick Genghis to guarantee I can select the Mongols
2. Roll the dice with Hatshepsut and dedicate my Antiquity Age to getting horses, which will also lead to an interesting emergent narrative for myself and of course tension

That sounds like a fun kind of tension to have with decision making.

Good try, thou maybe if I wanted to play the Mongols I should just pick them as before at the start ..
Then again if get lucky in the first game I can look forward to losing them to morph into maybe "Canada" in the third game

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I hear your concerns, but doesn’t this set up create some interesting choices?

I really want to play as the Mongols but I want to use Hatshepsut’s leader bonuses.

So my choices are:

1. Give up Hatshepsut and pick Genghis to guarantee I can select the Mongols
2. Roll the dice with Hatshepsut and dedicate my Antiquity Age to getting horses, which will also lead to an interesting emergent narrative for myself and of course tension

That sounds like a fun kind of tension to have with decision making.

you could also play hatshepsut with a civ that leads into mongolia, like a theoretical scythians in the antiquity era