[R&F] Mongolia First Look

[Arent11]

Remember we will also have Pike & Shot in the Renaissance, so if you're defending against a Knight army, you will want to beeline Gunpowder.

Well, pikemen are so much off the beaten path that beelining these pike & shot units might actually be better.

 

[Scaramanga]

https://m.facebook.com/civ/posts/10155828508765359

Here is the solutions to the Monday teaser.

Still does not look like a Mongolian draw to me.

 

[Kimiimaro]

About the pronunciation variants of "Genghis Khan", I'd like to add the Czech version of Genghis' name. We write it as "Čingischán", which is pronounced very similarly as "Chinggis Khan", except the "Ch" isn't pronounced like "Kh", but like already mentioned Scottish "Ch" from "Loch"

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Mongols can't actually steal Sakas because they are technically ranged class units. Also Maryannu or Domrey.

The Mongols can steal Cossacks, Hetairoi, Mamluk, Rough Riders, Varu, and War-carts, as well as the generic heavy and light cav units.

 

[Arent11]

3. Combat strength. Scythia gets no CS bonus.

Scythia gets +5 against wounded units. Which is a litte stronger in the immediate beginning, but loses in the long run of a game.
Then again, the production bonus is great for later corps/armies, which of course adds a whole lot of combat strength.

 

[PhilBowles]

The Mongols can't actually steal Sakas because they are technically ranged class units. Also Maryannu or Domrey.

The Mongols can steal Cossacks, Hetairoi, Mamluk, Rough Riders, Varu, and War-carts, as well as the generic heavy and light cav units.

The utility that occurred to me is that they can get a quick early army from barbarian horsemen, and as they presumably have a starting bias linked to horses they'll likely have camps with horsemen nearby,

 

[Uberfrog]

The Mongols can't actually steal Sakas because they are technically ranged class units. Also Maryannu or Domrey.

The Mongols can steal Cossacks, Hetairoi, Mamluk, Rough Riders, Varu, and War-carts, as well as the generic heavy and light cav units.

I think there's an exception made, at least for horse units. They are certainly capturing Saka Horse Archers in the First Look.

Spoiler Knights capturing Saka :

Keshigs_capture_saka

• Uberfrog
• Dec 20, 2017

Keshigs capture a Cythian Saka Horse archer in the Mongolia First Look trailer

 

[Siptah]

The utility that occurred to me is that they can get a quick early army from barbarian horsemen, and as they presumably have a starting bias linked to horses they'll likely have camps with horsemen nearby,

If they can capture barbarian units. I think the Sea Dog can't - but I'm not 100% sure of that.

 

[PhilBowles]

If they can capture barbarian units. I think the Sea Dog can't - but I'm not 100% sure of that.

From recollection the Eagle Warrior can. Checking the wiki the Sea Dog explicitly can't, something that isn't mentioned in the Eagle Warrior entry - possibly it's treated differently because the capture chance is 100%.

 

[pgm123]

I think Arabic kh has too much of a k in it. I'm no expert on it. Maybe if you pronounce a very soft loch or Bach, you get close. (my native language is german, so I know how to pronounce the latter).

Is it like the Hebrew het ( חֲ )?

Side note: the Korean han as in the modern name for South Korea (daehan) or the Three Hans (samhan) might be etymologically related to the Turko-Mongolian Khan--either because of a shared proto-language or because of proximity (sprachbund)--but it's unproven.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

From recollection the Eagle Warrior can.

No, neither the Sea Dog nor Eagle Warrior can capture Barbs, the EW can capture City State units unlike the Sea Dog.

 

[Meluhhan]

Can you explain?

Defender of the faith founder belief provides +10 combat strength when fighting near friendly cities following your religion. This +10 can provide some counter against their buffed up cavalry units, especially knights.
The speed and range of the Keshiks will still remain a threat though.

 

[KayAU]

TL;DR: Mongols are absolutely in the running with Scythia and the Aztecs. I'd actually say these three are reasonably balanced against one another. The probem is that Scyhia and the Aztecs are two of the strongest civs in the game, so the Mongols being balanced with them means they are similarly overpowered compared to the rest of the roster.

I agree. A few corrections/additions, though:

• As Arent11 pointed out, Scythia does get a +5 bonus against wounded units. This is not insignificant, applies to all units, and requires neither luxuries nor diplomatic visibility to work. It is available from turn 1.
• The Aztecs do not need to control a whole continent to get the combat bonus, they just need the luxury resources. This can often be accomplished with a city or two.
• Don't forget the Aztecs also get the builder ability to boost district production, which is pretty powerful, especially for a wide empire.

I do agree that the Mongols are in the same league when it comes to warfare, though.

 

[Zaarin]

Is it like the Hebrew het ( חֲ )?

Side note: the Korean han as in the modern name for South Korea (daehan) or the Three Hans (samhan) might be etymologically related to the Turko-Mongolian Khan--either because of a shared proto-language or because of proximity (sprachbund)--but it's unproven.

Altaic has fallen out of favor except as a Sprachbund, but even those who still insist on a genetic Altaic family generally leave out Korea now. There is some (more genetic than linguistic) evidence for a Koreo-Japonic family, but it's still very, very far from demonstrated.

 

[Morningcalm]

Well, send a caravan to each of their cities in a single turn ten the next turn declare war. Once the war is over the string of trading posts could net say +3 gold per trade route moving through that area. Its not blinding but its not to be underestimated either.

The loss of the trade caravans due to the war declaration means this isn't a good idea. Trade caravans cost a fair bit of production to make...

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

The loss of the trade caravans due to the war declaration means this isn't a good idea. Trade caravans cost a fair bit of production to make...

You do not lose the traders by declaring war though, not in civ 6.

 

[Victoria]

You do not lose the traders by declaring war though, not in civ 6.

Indeed not! you loose your caravans by having them go through the territory of someone you declare war on but do not have that country as their final destination. You sadly cannot redirect them as your enemy plunders you for hundreds of gold.

 

[Wingednosering]

Scythia gets +5 against wounded units. Which is a litte stronger in the immediate beginning, but loses in the long run of a game.
Then again, the production bonus is great for later corps/armies, which of course adds a whole lot of combat strength.

Very good point, I forgot that. Editing my post.

 

[shaglio]

And as long as we all agree that it isn't pronounced as in James Caan...

Wait, that's how I thought it was pronounced all along. If the Kh is like loch or Bach, then I would pronunce it like "GEN-giss Caan" Now I'm completely confused.

 

[Sascha77]

In keeping with the spirit of one of my earlier posts re. the upcoming R&F-leaders:

Ohhhh, yes! I just hope he'll be as unhinged as his "I'm going to kick your ass"-animation from the first look video seems to suggest.

Haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm kinda beating a dead horse:

I *think* we found the mystery leader-portrait from the live-stream. This rendition of Genghis looks suspiciously similar to that chubby, vaguely Asian-looking dude ...

S.