[R&F] Mongolia First Look

[SammyKhalifa]

I like Genghis Khan... that neutral stance was well done. The eyebrow is good lol...

Alexander is a bit silly looking, but I’ve boiled it down to his teeth. Lol.

He is, but I like the character they've built with the looks.

 

[Reckoner]

As another quibble of a more historical nature, it always bothered me that the Mongolian unique unit was named the Kheshig, after the bodyguards that *did not* fight with the main army. To quote Wikipedia: "They were distinct from the regular army and would not go to battle with them, instead staying back on guard duty. Their supreme commander was called the Cherbi." A better name for the military unit as portrayed being a major part of Mongolian forces would be after the Age of Empires II Mongolian unique unit, the Mangudai (more accurately named Manghud), which was both a tribe name and a name for a vanguard/light cavalry unit. As light cavalry were about 60% of the Mongolian cavalry forces, it would make sense for the unique unit for Mongolia to be named "Manghud" in future (I sincerely hope they don't name the Babylonian unique unit "Bowman" again either while we are at it).

Given the fact you can't upgrade anything to Keshigs, it won't be easy (thus not always the best strategy) to spam them.
In that case, their ability to speed-up escorted units makes perfect sense historically - they are elite bodyguards.

 

[Guandao]

I thought Genghis Khan didn't look Mongolian in Civ5. Civ6's Genghis looks more Mongolian to me.

I'm hoping his Civ6 voice actor is better than the one in Civ5. It's hard to take that one seriously, as he reminds me of Fat Albert sometimes. Even Mongolians say the voice actor is bad in youtube comments.

 

[Morningcalm]

Given the fact you can't upgrade anything to Keshigs, it won't be easy (thus not always the best strategy) to spam them.
In that case, their ability to speed-up escorted units makes perfect sense historically - they are elite bodyguards.

The fact that you *can* spam them and they can make up the bulk of your units is ahistorical. Speeding up escorted units is a nice touch but not enough to turn away the existing ahistoricity.

Maybe they'll change them later. I remember Immortals used to not be able to take cities. I whined about it. They now can take cities.

I thought Genghis Khan didn't look Mongolian in Civ5. Civ6's Genghis looks more Mongolian to me.

I'm hoping his Civ6 voice actor is better than the one in Civ5. It's hard to take that one seriously, as he reminds me of Fat Albert sometimes. Even Mongolians say the voice actor is bad in youtube comments.

The Genghis Khan of Civ VI appears to have a deeper voice so there's that at least. I don't mind the huskiness of Civ V's Genghis, but he sounded too friendly IMO (that said, I did feel immersed when he was friendly to me in that voice, as his loyalty was high in Civ V IIRC).

 

[ferretbacon]

Because people complained about her not looking Korean enough. A lot. That's why.

I don't think that really had anything to do with it honestly. Between the Korea First Look video and the updated model revealed on the livestream graphic, less than a week passed. It's more likely that they simply put the First Look video together with an older iteration of Seondeok.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The fact that you *can* spam them and they can make up the bulk of your units is ahistorical. Speeding up escorted units is a nice touch but not enough to turn away the existing ahistoricity.

Maybe they'll change them later. I remember Immortals used to not be able to take cities. I whined about it. They now can take cities.


The Genghis Khan of Civ VI appears to have a deeper voice so there's that at least. I don't mind the huskiness of Civ V's Genghis, but he sounded too friendly IMO (that said, I did feel immersed when he was friendly to me in that voice, as his loyalty was high in Civ V IIRC).

Eh. How many "Rough Riders" did the US ever have at one time?

 

[Kimiimaro]

I thought Genghis Khan didn't look Mongolian in Civ5. Civ6's Genghis looks more Mongolian to me.

I'm hoping his Civ6 voice actor is better than the one in Civ5. It's hard to take that one seriously, as he reminds me of Fat Albert sometimes. Even Mongolians say the voice actor is bad in youtube comments.

He can be heard in the First Look, although it's quite hard to hear him over Sarah's voice. However, his voice actor now has much deeper voice now.

 

[darko82]

All the characters wave their hands a lot, and in fairness the association between restrained body language with being any of 'clever', 'serious' or 'self-confident' is a very Anglophone - and particularly English - construct, and likely a rather recent one even there. Most cultures are much more physically expressive, and what basis do we have for expecting Genghis to have been especially calm?

The more they wave and move, the more likely that it looks odd and unnatural. I can't imagine some leaders moving like this in real life. The more (forced) animations does not make it any better. On the contrary. Friedric has one of the oddest animations, for instance.

Calmness is a desired leader trait, especially under pressure. I am not sure if he was calm, however. I know that he was brutal, sociopath rapist and killer.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The more they wave and move, the more likely that it looks odd and unnatural. I can't imagine some leaders moving like this in real life. The more (forced) animations does not make it any better. On the contrary. Friedric has one of the oddest animations, for instance.

I do agree that they move in a very cartoony fashion. That doesn't really bother me though: they ARE cartoons. It's definitely a matter of taste though and there's no right or wrong.

 

[steveg700]

In other words, he was cruel, with no mercy and compasion. Good animations should be able to show it.

He showed mercy and restraint on plenty of occasions. I think evidences suggests he wasn't cruel insomuch as he knew in a very cold and calculated way how to make his displeasure known.

Let's wait until he declares war and denounces us. There is room for him to show his 'other side.'

Yeah, there you go. He doesn't need to be some overwrought mouth-breather to be a ruthless, calculating conqueror.

 

[Zaarin]

Alexander is a bit silly looking, but I’ve boiled it down to his teeth. Lol.

What about his "melted Ken doll" face?

 

[Lord Lakely]

Alexander looks like one of those rubber blow-up dolls you find at bachelorette parties that couldn't afford an actual stripper.

 

[darko82]

He showed mercy and restraint on plenty of occasions. I think evidences suggests he wasn't cruel insomuch as he knew in a very cold and calculated way how to make his displeasure known.


Yeah, there you go. He doesn't need to be some overwrought mouth-breather to be a ruthless, calculating conqueror.

Maybe only to people on his side who listened to him. Otherwise, no mercy. Women who objected him were also raped, for instance. Not sure what occasions you mean in particular?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

He showed mercy and restraint on plenty of occasions. I think evidences suggests he wasn't cruel insomuch as he knew in a very cold and calculated way how to make his displeasure known.


Yeah, there you go. He doesn't need to be some overwrought mouth-breather to be a ruthless, calculating conqueror.

makes me think Babur would be an interesting leader. From what I've read, his typical day consisted of eating some hallucinogenic roots, then building a tower of skulls out of the conquered, then writing some epic poetry about the beauty of nature. Heh.

 

[Morningcalm]

Eh. How many "Rough Riders" did the US ever have at one time?

More than Genghis had Kheshigs in battle, that's for sure. The Kheshig was not an active combatant unit at all. To quote Wikipedia:

They were distinct from the regular army and would not go to battle with them, instead staying back on guard duty.

The active combatant role was reserved more for the Mongolian light cavalry (60% of the army approx) and their heavy cavalry (40% of the army approx). Manghud would be a better name as it was a vanguard unit.

Maybe only to people on his side who listened to him. Otherwise, no mercy. Women who objected him were also raped, for instance. Not sure what occasions you mean in particular?

Genghis was merciful to encourage towns to surrender. The Mongols were often outnumbered by the enemy combatants so they had to fight smarter rather than harder. Hence the feigned retreats, the ruthless slaughter of select towns to encourage surrender, etc. See this article, which states the following:

It is wisest to accept the judgment of a notable historian of medieval Russia, Charles J Halperin: “(Genghis) was no more cruel, and no less, than empire builders before and since. Moral judgments are of little help in understanding his importance.” Moreover, it is only fair to point out that great wartime leaders, whether Lincoln during the American Civil War or Churchill and Roosevelt in the Second World War, sent hundreds of thousands to their death for causes that a Martian observer might not necessarily see as noble. Julius Caesar is supposed to have caused a million deaths during his 10-year conquest of Gaul, but the Caesar that predominates in the public consciousness is the statesman, military genius and superb writer of prose, not the butcher.

Re: Julius (whom many Civ fans do not view with the immediate ruthlessness given Genghis), he practically committed genocide upon the Gauls, as pointed out in BBC's In Our Time podcast on Julius Caesar. Yet somehow Genghis is the one seen as a monster (despite his religious, cultural, ethnic tolerance, exemption of professional lawyers, doctors and the poor from taxation, his Yassa code forbidding the selling of women or kidnapping of women, etc, requiring recognition of children born of concubines), while Julius Caesar is given more or less a free pass for his genocidal rampage against Gauls.

 

[Zaarin]

makes me think Babur would be an interesting leader. From what I've read, his typical day consisted of eating some hallucinogenic roots, then building a tower of skulls out of the conquered, then writing some epic poetry about the beauty of nature. Heh.

So, someone to keep Nuclear Gandhi and Senhor Satan of Brazil company?

 

[Thormodr]

Chinggis Khaan was no more bloodthirsty than many of his rulers of his age. One has to remember that history has largely been written by his enemies. Ghengis is in fact the Persian translation for his name.

In a lot of ways, he was fairly enlightened and civilized for his day and age.

 

[empresskiova]

What about his "melted Ken doll" face?

His face doesn’t bother me too much. He looks like he is still a maturing young adult, rather than a man in his 30s.

 

[agonistes]

Yeah, I dunno what happened there, lol.

In your defense, its both.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Chinggis Khaan was no more bloodthirsty than many of his rulers of his age.

Still the number of Genghis victims is on the top of the world most deadly events list. The only challenger is the Black Death.