Monty Island (Deity Isolation)

[soundjata]

Update 131

Spoiler :

Did not plan the barb galley invasion at all : built settlers, missionaries, work boats and triremes in the wrong order, which delayed the settling of Calixtlahuaca by many turns.

Neglecting barb defense is a bad habit

We reached optics this turn and we are almost ready for the double astro bulb.

Next turn we'll upgrade a couple of triremes to caravels and go discover a planet

We have just settled 2 new cities, and for the first time...
One of our cities is commerce negative

Astro 136

Spoiler :

We found some trading partners
Isabella and Justinian share the same island and the same faith (+16 friendliness )
no one has paper...

Need some guidance forward. Probably sleep on it

 

[krikav]

@BornInCantaloup Thats really nice. Your playthrough makes me realize that AH is a mistake.
Mining->BW and chop boats earlier is dandy!
I wonder though... maybe Poly->Mining->Fish->BW could be even better?
The marble is a really strong tile mined, maybe that is enough to get a boat out.

I think I'll check it out tomorrow!

 

[soundjata]

Also it could be (could) that Poly first is not the best opening

Accumulating units for the inevitable cannon war
Capitol

city 3 (4west of cap = share food!)

I hate war

Spoiler :

 

[soundjata]

Cute and provides an extra +0 per turn immediately

Spoiler :

and a great merchant that can be used circa T150 for a trade mission when you need gold (steel beeline)

 

[soundjata]

@BornInCantaloup in your position I would certainly think twice about cottaging the FP area.
edit: was looking at your T55 screen.
- Academy is not affordable in this map imo
- Monty needs hammers > commerce (settle the free land)
- Caste + Chemistry workshops

 

[krikav]

I will experiment abit more now!
Are you guys sure about GLH...? I'm not entierly sold on that idea.
The "free" religion in the end I think is absolutely justifiable, the +2 happines (with spi temples) is awesome.
Might be enough to forgo monarchy.

Cottages I do believe in, even if they are badly placed, they can be replaced later on, reaching optics/astro is much faster with them.
One situation I could see that one skips cottages altogether is if you strech some failgold/wonderhunt very far, and only reach pottery much much later... but in such a situation, you miss out on alot of granary whipping goodnes!

 

[soundjata]

Update T168

Spoiler :

Steel this turn and we are gearing for war
Pacal is the obvious victim because sucker block is north. Azooka is far away and helpful.
Pacal is weak and close

We switched out of Bureau in Favor of Vassalage and into Slavery out of Caste this turn.

Now I can easily focus on my little war with Pacal and then I lose the game don't I?

So apart from producing and pushing units I also need to leverage my Steel monopoly and decent commerce into some mid term advantage.

And I have no freaking experience of this part of the game

So....
- Military science good ?
- Trading away steel bad ?

Saladin is such a lunatic

 

[soundjata]

I will experiment abit more now!
Are you guys sure about GLH...? I'm not entierly sold on that idea.
The "free" religion in the end I think is absolutely justifiable, the +2 happines (with spi temples) is awesome.
Might be enough to forgo monarchy.

Cottages I do believe in, even if they are badly placed, they can be replaced later on, reaching optics/astro is much faster with them.
One situation I could see that one skips cottages altogether is if you strech some failgold/wonderhunt very far, and only reach pottery much much later... but in such a situation, you miss out on alot of granary whipping goodnes!

GLH effects are relatively weak at start so it is a shame having to rush it.
But it gradually offers more and more as we settle extra cities.
Allows expansion without slowing down research.

Opportunity Cost ?
~30 worker turns (rough estimation) which could be translated into 10 turns delayed cottage maturation.
~200 which could be translated into 2 settlers.

So without GLH probably means earlier Optics (Academy in Cap)
And with GLH later Optics but more population and commerce...

 

[soundjata]

Question for you circa T95 :

Spoiler :

What do you do with Pacal when he finally pops borders ? Trade or no trade ?
In my game I stayed isolated until optics.
So I can't afford much advice on that.
I would be tempted to trade ASAP with anyone lol

So I did cottage. I also bulbed MC. I have Monarchy, here, and raising the slider again.
Yes @krikav is right. Cottages are probably a fine early game improvement. Maybe terraform around chemistry.

This is "no-tiles economy". I probably missed the opportunity for a 4th worker, at some point, and there is no workforce near Tenochtitlan/Teotihuacan at the moment.
Workforce is key (I had fogbusting workers in my game due to lack of military units )

The Great Library looks like an 8 turns build in Tenochtitlan
Unpure blood ?

I'm never keeping a GP around for 60 turns
I decided for a low GP strategy in my game so 2 great scientists (from city 2 and 3) for Astro
Let Teno do the 300 great merchant circa 150

 

[soundjata]

Regarding Tech choices,
I found most detours (monarchy, aestetics) to be a waste of science points.
(of course +gem helped a little bit with that)

Around Astro, one can play with "lowtech overflow tactics" in order to avoid wasting science points on useless techs (that could be traded with the next guy we are going to meet) and trade for everything.

Apart from Optics and Astro, I committed to archery > meditation > overflow into engineering > trade for Guilds.

T131 (optics)

T141 (traded for everything, except Sally)

Gunpowder in 6 ; steel in 17 turns.
We saved every for this beeline and the great merchant allows 100% research all the way

 

[krikav]

Alright, I tested the beginning abit, and Poly->Mining->BW->Fish is almost certainly the way to go!
But I think I found an even faster fish!!

Spoiler Fish done quick :

First warrior had to wait... worker right away @pop2, one hammer decayed in the warrior.
Haven't calculated if this extra overflow was necessery.

One chop into the settler and at 76/100 it could be 1pop whipped, spi-slavery swap!
Worker just in time to land a chop into city2.

There are alot of food around, and floodplains waiting to be cottaged... But you guys are making good points about GLH I think.
Maybe it can be achieved even with pottery first...?

 

[soundjata]

^ no I don't think that would be safe enough (you still need 300 for sailing and masonry) but you could try

also there's no valid improvement on oasis

 

[krikav]

I recall having done GLH on other maps through granary powered whipping and overflow.
Busy now, but will see how fast I can get it up later tonight! What turns did you finish it?

 

[soundjata]

Why did you kill the fish

 

[soundjata]

oh and I've forgotten about the whale too (again)
thanks for screenshot !

 

[krikav]

I kind of wish that there was no fish there... then I would have settled on the silver in a heartbeat! Nasty workerturn-sink.

 

[krikav]

My first run through, galley made two passes, first settler+worker.
The worker roaded the silver.
Next pass, another worker and a missionary went over, the worker could then unload in the city and start to mine right away.

But now, I'm busy trying to micromanage some early pottery GLH game, was set to build it in T65... but it was build in a distant land T58. T_T
Trying something new now...

 

[krikav]

Okok, I managed a T66 GLH now. Now I'll lay aside my stubborness and ignore TW and see what that gives me.

Spoiler T66 :

First of all I cheated and tried to go Buddhism to get chopping earlier. Turns out that wasn't as much of a haxx that I hoped, since I still landed at 68/100 on the settler I couldn't whip earlier.
Worker could chop a boat for capital earlier though.

Althought that came at the cost of a fish 1 turn slower.

Two more workers where built in second city, while capital did what it could to get granary, lighthouse and some overflow ready.
Chopping was fast with 3 workers, but that ment I couldn't cottage... which was half of the point with pottery.

Regarding the crowd on the map:

Spoiler :

They where completely random when I first rolled the map... Although one wouldn't think so, looking at what collection that resulted.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T62... :

I went monotheism too, not at all sure that was dubious!

I did a 1pop whip of the lighthouse at 30/60, then I just grew and put hammers into a galley during the period between masonry->OR, that way I could do hammers that would later get the OR bonus.

Thought everything was very neat and dandy, but T62 is no T60!
@BornInCantaloup did you take citizens off clam/crab to work mines?
Where did your third worker come from? I did a 1pop whip of one in Teo.

 

[soundjata]

I don't know how many population you have but next GP for a golden age maybe ?

Please don't waste too much science after optics. What's your beeline ?

edit: National Epic in Cap looks
Can you leverage that ?