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[<Nexus>]

Don't overuse the Unhappiness/pop mechanic; it restricts city growth more than it should.

Like Supreme Court is a national wonder for more democratic civilizations, Secret Police could be a national wonder for Despotism users, potentially providing some kind of bonus to security bureaus? For maintenance reduction, Monument of the Dictator fills that niche already.

Okay, I'll try to make it a NW.

Now, for Labor camp? Shunt the Slave bonuses there; only caveat is if you want all cities to enjoy them, they have to build the labor camps.

You mean slaves as resource? No, that would be odd as it is tradeable.

Oh, and I'd put Mind Control Center to Hive, and rename it as something else, like "synchronization center". Or make a new building for it?

I'd keep it here. Dictators want to dictate what their subjects do. I see it as the most legitime civic to place MCC.
Hive is different in my vision: it's unification that can even be voluntary on the part of citizens. But a civic building would be good.

But the main problem is, Despotism, compared to the likes of Monarchy and Republic, can be summed up as "just some military and espionage bonuses", while Monarchy has a sexy maintenance reduction and no unhappiness in capital bonus (and infinte nobles with relations bonus isn't too bad!), and Republic having that... monstrosity that has me glued in it to the end of time. Democracy feels like a poor Republic knock-off, and I'd rather go to Monarchy, if I had the choice. Also, Monarchy feels too specialized for the Medieval era; again, Republic wins again, damn the maintenance penalties. Democracy served as a cute little middle ground compared to Federation when it was in gov't, but with the latter moving to territorial governance? Feels like that unnecessary extra. Despotism and Democracy feel too underwhelming compared to Monarchy and Republic, and Monarchy needs a more generalized bonus set to not become less attractive by tech progress...

IMO Despotism has the right values but with the current game mechanisms we have it just cannot represent the strengths of it. If we had already the planned Active Senate for all the other government civics Despotism would have the power of real sovereignty. Also, if we had a system for Crime Despotism would be superior in crushing criminals. (On the other hand Democracy and Republic would face problems here, but from revolts).

...welp, I rambled here. Sorry. Point I was trying to make is, Despotism needs a little buff without the addition of buildings, Monarchy wouldn't be hurt by replacing all those specialized bonuses with something more generic, and while Democracy is meant to be Republic-lite for larger civs, I find myself to just stick with Republic anyway despite the crushing maintenance costs. Maintenance costs and high upkeep are all it has, anyway, and I have a lot of money to spare once I finish developing my cities.

How big is your empire? What map size? I'd like to see a screenshot of map coverage.

Once you release your new version, I'll try fiddle with the civic bonuses and nerf Republic, while "generalizing" Monarchy and buffing Despotism in a more straightforward fashion. Maybe make Democracy not seem so underwhelming if I can. If you like what you see, you can include the changes, and if you wish so, I can do more tweaks, one civic group at a time.

I'm open for suggestions.

 

[GreedyManul]

Okay, I'll try to make it a NW.

Nice. Secret police was always a nation-wide apparatus, and a NW would best reflect that.

You mean slaves as resource? No, that would be odd as it is tradeable.

Not the resource, the specialist. Instead of having a NW/WW, have the labor camp give extra for every slave specialist you're employing.

I'd keep it here. Dictators want to dictate what their subjects do. I see it as the most legitime civic to place MCC.
Hive is different in my vision: it's unification that can even be voluntary on the part of citizens. But a civic building would be good.

Alright, reasoning's sound.

IMO Despotism has the right values but with the current game mechanisms we have it just cannot represent the strengths of it. If we had already the planned Active Senate for all the other government civics Despotism would have the power of real sovereignty. Also, if we had a system for Crime Despotism would be superior in crushing criminals. (On the other hand Democracy and Republic would face problems here, but from revolts).

Yet we don't. It's why Despotism is so gimped.

How big is your empire? What map size? I'd like to see a screenshot of map coverage.

30 cities by industrial era sound excessive to you? It's on a gigantic map (Giant Earth Map), which covers the entirety of Europe (minus Scandinavia).

I uploaded a save at the bug thread, I think. It's hilarious.

I'm open for suggestions.

I said I'd do it myself and present you the tweaks afterwards.

But personally, I'd nerf Republic by axing the military production bonus, and probably downplaying that insane research bonus; republics and democracies have a powerful research bonus that automatically makes them more attractive than monarchies and despotic empires, and republic's production bonus? By god, it's a match made in heaven.

I experimented with despotism once by adding a flat production bonus too, but I decided against it. I'll see what I can do once you roll your updates.

 

[<Nexus>]

Not the resource, the specialist. Instead of having a NW/WW, have the labor camp give extra for every slave specialist you're employing.

That won't work. The code gives extra yield for the specified specialist in all cities. So the more camps built the more extra yield.

30 cities by industrial era sound excessive to you? It's on a gigantic map (Giant Earth Map), which covers the entirety of Europe (minus Scandinavia).

Oh, that's not so big, IMO.

But personally, I'd nerf Republic by axing the military production bonus, and probably downplaying that insane research bonus; republics and democracies have a powerful research bonus that automatically makes them more attractive than monarchies and despotic empires, and republic's production bonus? By god, it's a match made in heaven.

I experimented with despotism once by adding a flat production bonus too, but I decided against it. I'll see what I can do once you roll your updates.

Republic was re/designed to be a good civic for small empires and I don't want to change that.

 

[GreedyManul]

That won't work. The code gives extra yield for the specified specialist in all cities. So the more camps built the more extra yield.

Well. Have the NW be called "Labor Camp HQ" instead? No need to slap "Auschwitz" as a name, as that was just one of the many labor camps out there.

Oh, that's not so big, IMO.

Pretty sure it counts as medium-large.

Republic was re/designed to be a good civic for small empires and I don't want to change that.

It's also good for medium empires, it seems...

 

[gay_Aleks]

Just to chip in, but Labour Camp HQ just comes up a bit...wrong?

 

[GreedyManul]

Just to chip in, but Labour Camp HQ just comes up a bit...wrong?

It's something I made up in 5 seconds as a name, and wasn't meant to be definitive. It can be changed to something better.

 

[<Nexus>]

Just to chip in, but Labour Camp HQ just comes up a bit...wrong?

That sounds really silly. This is the first moment I start to wonder what is the mother tongue of thegreekweegee I thought he was English.

 

[GreedyManul]

That sounds really silly. This is the first moment I start to wonder what is the mother tongue of thegreekweegee I thought he was English.

As I said above, placeholder name.

Also, I'm Greek.

 

[<Nexus>]

As I said above, placeholder name.

Okay. We have have Labor Union as a building, which IRL is not really a building but does its own job. How about Reeducation Program?

Also, I'm Greek.

Ohh, I truly thought you were English

 

[GreedyManul]

Okay. We have have Labor Union as a building, which IRL is not really a building but does its own job. How about Reeducation Program?

Sounds much better. I like it.

Ohh, I truly thought you were English

I get that a lot lmao

 

[<Nexus>]

Secret Police from this:

Reeducation Program:

Opinions?

 

[GreedyManul]

Secret Police from this:

Too spy-ish. I'd use what you had in mind for reeducation program.

Reeducation Program:

Opinions?

As it'd go to secret police, I recommend something gulag-ish.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'll start with these:

Reed.Pr.:

Spoiler :

Secret Police

Spoiler :

 

[GreedyManul]

I'll start with these:

Reed.Pr.:

Spoiler :

Secret Police

Spoiler :

The reeducation program one looks perfect. Just crop the gulag part and it's ready.

As for Secret Police, I stand with this still:

 

[<Nexus>]

The reeducation program one looks perfect. Just crop the gulag part and it's ready.

As for Secret Police, I stand with this still:

I see the Police, but where is the Secret?

 

[GreedyManul]

I see the Police, but where is the Secret?

Fine, I'll raise you these:

 

[Arakhor]

Please, no obvious national icons. The chap in dark glasses is suitable enough.

 

[<Nexus>]

Please, no obvious national icons. The chap in dark glasses is suitable enough.

Yep, I also thought about some KBG icon, but don't want to go that way.

 

[<Nexus>]

Looking at the government civics again I came to these changes:

Despotism: Cutting the "city requires +50%" makes a lot of sense IMO, that was a big penalty.
Republic: I was thinking of increasing the maintenance costs and/or adding maintenance cost for overseas cities too, but came this instead: Adding 1 unhappiness /20% foreign culture. It's 10% for despotism. I could imagine even a higher penalty (1/ 5%) to really take away any warmongering mood of warmongers.

Opinions?

 

[GreedyManul]

Looking at the government civics again I came to these changes:

Despotism: Cutting the "city requires +50%" makes a lot of sense IMO, that was a big penalty.
Republic: I was thinking of increasing the maintenance costs and/or adding maintenance cost for overseas cities too, but came this instead: Adding 1 unhappiness /20% foreign culture. It's 10% for despotism. I could imagine even a higher penalty (1/ 5%) to really take away any warmongering mood of warmongers.

Opinions?

I endorse cutting the food penalty. It's a drawback that makes little sense; I'd expect it on a civic like Conscription, where the draft takes all the men away and makes growth harder.

And as for Republic, taking a page off greek city states and roman republicanism (who didn't let non-natives/non-patricians from partaking in politics), I endorse this too. You could also just increase the maintenance costs from +250% to +300%, or something, but that's optional.