More Pantheons

[Galgus]

As a tall player, those seem very weak to me: but I don't have much experience going wide.

I'm don't think it would ever be as strong as just going with a Pantheon for the local tiles, but maybe I just don't expand enough.

Perhaps expanding the bonus to include +2 from Temples and expanding the to also give a bonus on Universities and Research Labs would feel more satisfying.

 

[Barathor]

Yeah, I was looking at the per-city bonuses again.

Before all resource types received a bonus type; then, per-city (or per-building) bonuses were more appealing.

Now, whatever resource you have available, you can choose it as a belief (unless someone else grabs it first). On average, lets say you have access to 5 of your regional luxuries. That would be 10 bonus yields on top of whatever else you're producing.

So, a wide empire would need 10 cities to break even on bonus yields with a per-building belief vs. whatever type of empire the other is with the 10 bonus yields (it could be tall or wide).

So, perhaps with these types of bonuses, two things could happen:

1) introduce a second yield type but introduce a population requirement (of say, 6) to control it a little better against rapid expansion. This would be in addition to the building requirement that exists. Perhaps these two restrictions could balance this out?

2) introduce a second yield type but tie it to another building type which comes later. This sets restrictions as well, and also gives a more gradual increase in yields from 0 > +1 > +2, instead of going from 0 to +2. Plus, building things is a little more specific and makes the user more actively pursue it, instead of just building one early building type and then passively letting a city grow.

I guess now I'll start looking at all the other existing beliefs too.

 

[Galgus]

I'd go with the second option since it lets players be more active in utilizing the Pantheon.

 

[Barathor]

Okay, here’s a new rough design including all pantheons. They don’t need to be so tightly balanced with each other, but I’m hoping it’s a bit closer than the old pantheons.

Spoiler :

Now that every luxury and bonus resource is represented, along with iron, I believe the other beliefs needed to be reviewed again and some enhanced. If one founds a pantheon, chances are, you’ll have access to the belief that grants a bonus to a prominent resource type in your borders. So, the other beliefs need to compete with that and be just as lucrative.

I’m using a rough average of 8-10 yields as one’s empire-wide bonus to try and balance things more. So, that would be 4 to 5 regional luxuries or a combination of different resource types totaling 4 or 5.

Example: The old One with Nature provided a bonus of 4 faith. Any two luxuries could easily provide the same number of yields, and Purification Rituals will even provide the same type too. In the default game, this wasn’t a big deal, since there was a good chance you didn’t have a prominent pantheon-resource and had to settle for something else. In this mod, One with Nature needs to be more desirable, so an additional 4 culture was added onto it, so that the belief still sees some use.

In a way, pantheon resource bonuses have the minor handicap of requiring the population to work them, expanding to specific locations to obtain them (before others do too), and sometimes sacrificing early city or production to work them. Because of this, the fact that they have a greater potential seems okay, in situations where you’re able to obtain 6 or maybe even more of them belonging to one belief.

Also, per-city bonuses also have a greater potential in the long run because getting a good wide empire up and running is a little more challenging than sitting on 3 or 4 and turtling up. Also, most of these bonuses also have restrictions which require a specific building or a minimum population to help stabilize things more against rapid expansion and instant bonuses. Because of that, it takes some time and commitment to work towards these bonuses, which should always be considered when comparing things since a smaller bonus gained earlier and for longer could easily surpass a bigger bonus which takes time to obtain.

- - - - - - - - - -

So, here’s some explanation of some of the design decisions, so you guys can better critique things:

Everything is pretty much the same as the original mod, down to Desert Folklore. (Oh, I’m renaming God of Fire to God of the Forge)

Also, everything uses only what’s available in the existing code.

• Divine Craftsmanship:
  
  This used to be Devotion to the Gods (which was the old God of Craftsmen). I was never too keen on the new name and I’m not sure why I didn’t think of this newer one in the first place, haha.
  
  This has the same production bonus in each city once you grow them to size 3 or more. Also, to give this a bit more of a buff, a secondary late bonus of +1 faith was added which requires you to build a workshop (medieval era). It also nicely fits the theme of the belief, which is always a nice plus on the side.
  
  I initially thought about removing the minimum size requirement, but it would be too strong; especially since expansion cities normally start out with only 1 or 2 production while growing. With +1 production right away, this belief would start to veer in different directions. One example could be a pseudo-“Religious Settlements” since getting your monument so rapidly could be seen to be just as good or better than it.
  
  
• Goddesses of Inspiration:
  
  This represents the Greek Muses, who under Apollo, inspired mortals in science and the arts. This is somewhat like the old God of Craftsmen, except it adds culture instead of production. As a secondary, later bonus, it grants +3 culture to your Writers’, Artists’, and Musicians’ Guild (remember, you can only have one of each.)
  
  Initially, I had this granting a +1 culture bonus to libraries instead of per-city with the minimum population, but I wound up using a library elsewhere for the new God of Knowledge once I modified Messenger of the Gods and removed the science.
  
  This belief can be nice for wide empires, but it’s also nice for tall ones too because of the single big bonuses to each guild.
  
  Initially, I also had this at only +2 culture for each guild, but I think because of how very late each guild comes, in addition to the fact that you can only build one of each, I think a +3 is more justified to make up for that time.
  
  There’s also the concept of clustering of things like culture/faith vs. production/food. Food, and even more so, production are much more powerful when clustered and combined than spread out to cities. Example: +10 production to a city is more powerful than +1 production to 10 cities. Meanwhile, things like culture, and more so, faith aren’t affected much by being spread out and are nearly as powerful (because sometimes there are city % modifiers which only apply to a single city). So, there’s not much difference between +10 faith to a city or +1 faith to 10 cities, it all gets added to the same total and is pretty much the same.
  
  So, even if the +3 to each guild isn’t quite enough to justify the length of time to obtain those bonus yields, I think the fact that culture isn’t affected by a per-city distribution as much as production is helps strengthen the belief too.
  
  
• Ancestor Worship:
  
  This was changed to faith, instead of culture, to diversify things and give faith more representation. Along with this, a Reliquary bonus is applied as well which grants 50 faith each time a great person is used.
  
  Thematically, I think the faith bonus works better with the idea of ancestor worshipping and reverence. Also, the faith bonus each time you use a great person fits the flavor as well.
  
  I think 50 is a good number, but it’s still up in the air. (Also, I believe the existing Reliquary needs a buff.) Remember, this would need to at least keep up with other belief choices. So, if one civ is getting only 8 bonus yields per turn in its empire, and you have 6 cities with +1 faith, you need at least 2 yields per turn to keep up. 50 / 2 = 25; so, you would need to generate a great person every 25 turns to keep up. It may take longer than that, but later in the game, great people may come more rapidly and more than make up for it. Though, another thing to consider is the game-changing effects earlier obtained bonuses can have.
  
  Also, later in the game, that same bonus of 50 becomes relatively smaller when compared to rising costs and larger faith incomes, even though great people are obtained more rapidly. Early in the game, it can mean a 10 turn jump on things or more, while a little later it could equate to only a 2 or 3 turn jump, and later on even less. But, hey, the same can be said for a static +3 faith per turn that lasts into the later game.
  
  The bonus faith to shrines is also strong because it’s focused. You’re not getting culture for a faith building, for example. If you’re building shrines, you’re probably focusing a bit on religion and faith, so getting even more faith is potent. So, perhaps this helps make up for the lacking Reliquary-like effect very early on.
  
  I also initially thought of renaming this belief and just giving it an additional +1 faith to temples instead of the great person bonus. I also thought about renaming the belief to Ancestor Reverence and giving it some kind of bonus to both monuments and shrines instead (with a minimum population requirement), since they both can be used to revere a great person within one’s culture, but I’m afraid that having bonuses to two very early buildings is just too strong, even with a population requirement.
  
  
• God of Knowledge:
  
  This belief represents Apollo in a way. I added this one since I removed the science bonus from Messenger of the Gods and changed it to something a little less potent and more flavorfully fitting, and I want some kind of direct science boost to exist within the beliefs.
  
  This one is pretty straightforward. It’s the same +2 science per city, but with different restrictions. Instead of having to connect your cities to the capital, you have two restrictions. One is having to build a library, and the second is that you have to grow your city up to at least 6 population. I believe both of these restrictions keep this direct and potent bonus in check, especially with civs that may rapidly expand.
  
  
• Messenger of the Gods:
  
  This belief represents Hermes. Some of the things Hermes is known for is commerce/trade, travelers, boundaries, and speed. This is why I felt it more fitting to change the bonus to +2 gold instead, especially since it has to do with city connections and building a road network, which makes it even more fitting.
  
  Also, since gold can be seen of as lesser than the other yields as the game progresses, I added an additional effect: +10% faster border growth. Religious Settlements has been removed and worked into this belief with a slightly weaker bonus. Thematically, it fits really well and seems like it was meant to be associated with a belief that represents the messenger of the gods.
  
  
• God of War:
  
  Ooh, the badass belief… this one has been modified too, and will especially need some testing to figure out the right balance. The range has been extended an extra tile out for a total of 5 (which also happens to be the extent of one's cultural borders too). I believe this will have a great effect on its usefulness and helps cater towards more aggressive behavior, but still keeps it in check as you can’t just go rampaging anywhere.
  
  This represents Ares, the God of War. Unlike the armored war god Athena and her military strategy, justice, courage, etc., the war god Ares is simply about violence, chaos, bloodshed, etc. So, why limit the faith bonus to only killing enemies? The God of War revels in chaos and fear, and simply wants blood, so now you gain faith both from killing enemies AND your own units being killed.
  
  The percent bonus needs to be tested, but the existing one was 50%. Now, with the ranged increased by 1 and also gaining a bonus from your own units dying, it’s been reduced to 25% so far.
  
  EDIT: Just to clarify things, one of your units has to be involved in the battle. Despite how the description sounds (which I guess I'll have to edit), you won't gain faith from kills made between two other civilizations around your cities!
  
  
• Goddess of Protection:
  
  I believe this belief was intended to portray the other more honorable war god, Athena. Some of the things she represents are battle, courage, strength, civilization, and justice. I think she’s also known as the protector of cities.
  
  In the default game, this belief is a stronger ranged attack for your cities. But, this alone doesn’t seem too desirable alongside the other new beliefs. The same could maybe be said for the existing Faith Healers. So, I figured I would just combine these as they fit the flavor of the belief. I just reduced the strength of each of them, slightly.
  
  Units huddled around a city are probably protecting it, and extra healing for you units can be seen as a defensive ability. Even if used offensively to take the time to heal your units, it can represent military strategy and wisdom instead of rushing into battle and losing more troops. The healing effect can also be seen as a rallying effect among your units, as they courageously continue to battle instead of viewing it strictly as your units being healed and treated by someone.
  
  
• Goddess of Love:
  
  Now we’re playing with happiness, which is a strong yield. Initially, I was trying to get an additional happiness in for each city, tying the second happiness to maybe a building or something, but in most cases it may have been too strong.
  
  So, instead, the existing per-city bonus remains, and in addition to that, your empire receives a lump sum of +4 happiness (equal to an extra luxury). So, this helps control it a bit more with wide empires and still gives tall empires a strong ability. There’s still a catch, though, since it may still be a strong belief. In addition to the population requirement to protect it from very rapid expansion and instant bonuses, it also requires peace. So, if you’re going to warmonger or expect to be drawn into a lot of war because of your aggressive neighbors, you probably don’t want this. Love and peace seem to go hand in hand, so it fits well. Make love, not war!
  
  
• Sacred Waters:
  
  This one was a little more challenging too. I felt the existing bonus wasn’t quite enough so I added another happiness to it. But, in addition to the existing inflexible restriction (which, within a large empire, all your cities probably won’t be able to fulfill) of being adjacent to a river, I also imposed the minimum population requirement of 6. So, even with a large river, you can’t expand so rapidly and instantly gain the happiness and will have to grow the cities first.
  
  I initially thought of tying the additional happiness to a building. At first it was the water mill, but that doesn’t make much sense and is a bit too crude. I then thought about the more elegant example, the garden, which also comes later. Also, the garden would also expand the second happiness yield to cities near other forms of fresh water, and not just rivers. But, thematically, it still doesn't fit strongly enough with the idea of sacred waters, even though gardens/parks could certainly have nice natural or manmade water features.
  
  
• Monument to the Gods:
  
  This one is pretty simple. To increase the value of this belief I removed the Ancient/Classical restriction for a much more lasting effect throughout the game, but decreased the bonus down to 10% instead of 15%.
  
  
• One with Nature:
  
  This one is pretty straightforward too. With the old belief bonus of +4 faith, any two luxuries could easily provide the same number of yields, and Purification Rituals will even provide the same type too. In the default game, this wasn’t a big deal, since there was a good chance you didn’t have a prominent pantheon-resource and had to settle for something else.
  
  Since, I chose to use a standard empire yield bonus of 8 to 10 as a base, I added 4 more yields to this one. I chose a different one, culture, because I didn’t want too much of a single yield; plus, it makes the belief more flexible.
  
  Often, if you obtain a natural wonder, it’s usually just one, due to their spacing. Getting two of them in your borders is rare, unless you’re settling and expanding in a sporadic manner throughout the map and weakening your defensive capabilities.
  
  I chose the lower side of the standard, 8, because it’s still very possible to obtain one with your first expansion city. Then, with only one citizen needed to work the tile, you get a surge of 8 yields right away. Even if other beliefs grant more later on, the ability to gain 8 yields in a single instance and early on (which changes the course of the game in the long run) without sacrificing much else like needing more citizens to work the tiles, additional cities, a minimum population, a building requirement, etc., definitely brings this belief up to par with the rest of them and makes it a worthy contender. You just have to get lucky and grab a natural wonder before others do, while also gaining your pantheon.

- - - - - - - - - -

So, there are some of my thoughts behind the design decisions. Any more feedback and suggestions are very welcome as I try to finalize this!

 

[Galgus]

Would it make sense to give Dance of the Aurora a faith yield on Snow tiles as well?

They typically are not far from Tundra, and its always felt odd that they weren't included.

Something like a +2 or +3 bonus on top of their default yield of nothing would feel pretty thematic.


I'm not typically a fan of flat yields like the +50 GP bonus on Ancestor Worship because it scales poorly into my Marathon games, I'd favor a bonus on Temples instead.

Spain will be fun with the new One With Nature.

I like how you changed the happiness beliefs: they both give big bonuses but require players to adapt to use them.

 

[Barathor]

Hmm, I think the faith on snow tiles would be a bit much, but I'll think about it.

The bonus to temples would be a flat yield each turn as well. But, yeah, I'm still not that crazy over the great person bonus either. It's certainly different, but I'm not sure about it yet. The Mayans would have a fun time with it too, along with some others.

There's still the option of the temple bonus, but I initially avoided it because there's a very similar Piety policy and I'd hate to lose the theme of Ancestor Worship. Although, I now just came up with a new title I think I'd be able to live with: Devout Worship. Hmm... maybe I'll change that one; we'll see.

Perhaps I'll add a minimum population requirement too, since this is so laser-focused on faith and efficient, and because with the Pietry tree you can build them in half the time and gain more bonuses on top of them.

What about the others? Some that I'm focusing on are Goddesses of Inspiration and the guild bonus, Monument to the Gods and the bonus (should it still remain at 15%?), Sacred Waters (should I make a Garden bonus instead, or should i make the secondary yield bonus something else, like +1 food or something?), Goddess of Love and its peace requirement (is it powerful enough to justify it?), and God of War (is 25% enough or was it reduced too much?).

 

[Galgus]

The belief goddess of inspiration belief seems designed to be a relatively heavy belief not reliant on nearby resources to get the yield, though it could be surpassed later on, and less penalty for expanding.

The game-play of it seems to be a heavy belief players can grab regardless of nearby resources and the fact that Cities with 3 will expand their borders without a Monument required.

I personally prefer the tile specific options and the game-play of hunting down the tiles, so its harder for me to judge how fun that is.


Monument to the gods might feel too weak if the bonus was reduced in my opinion, and it would probably have less relative impact in later eras anyway when civs have more options for speeding production.

I'd be worried that goddess of love pantheon would be stronger than Sacred Waters if the peace requirement was removed: as-is I think it balances the two by making Sacred Waters more reliable, but more demanding to use.

(They both give 8 in a typical 4-city Tall empire.)

Its also a bit odd that goddess of love gives a +4 bonus immediately while Sacred Waters gets nothing till a city on a river hits 6, though that may not mean much.


Maybe it would be better to make Sacred Waters do something else to not compete with goddess of love: I'm honestly not sure.

If you want to change it, perhaps a or bonus yield on river tiles would work. Does it actually make sense for the Garden to tie into the belief, flavor-wise?

 

[windiz]

Could you please upload the addon for More Luxuries into CivFanatics Downloads Database? It would be really nice, thank you.

 

[kaspergm]

Hmm, from a balance perspective, I'm not keen on God Of Knowledge. Messenger of the Gods already is borderline overpowered, and this seems even better. My suggestion would be to either cut bonus down to +1 Science or (this is my prefered suggestion) change it to +2 Science from Temples or +1 Science from Shrines and Temples.

 

[Barathor]

Thanks for the feedback, kaspergm.

Yeah, that's one of the beliefs I'm having a little more difficulty with over the other ones, which I think are pretty stable.

Here's the latest, I've highlighted the ones I'm still working on:

God of Knowledge is the trickiest one, since science representation comes early with the Library, and then much later with the University -- nothing really in between, except for the national wonder. With production or culture, along with the initial city bonus for having the population, I can give a bonus to a Late Classical/Early Medieval building to buff the belief a little later one. With faith, it has both an early building and a later building, so I can easily give those a bonus that's spread out more. (Also, comparing this faith one with the production/culture ones, I think having to build a shrine versus growing to a population of 4 is easier, so the faith one has a 6 pop requirement instead.)

I have God of Knowledge at a 6 pop requirement because there were no science flavored buildings to give a bonus to within a reasonable amount of time -- late Medieval just seems too late. I thought about giving the university a 2 science bonus to make up for it (alongside the library one), but in the end, I think it could be too much.

Another possibility was to tie some type of larger later bonus to the National College, since it's obtained within a good time frame. But, at the same time, I want to give wide empires strong beliefs if they work towards them, tall to average empires can just take advantage of the resource beliefs and others, since they'd probably offer more total bonuses over any bonuses-per-city to their limited number.

I don't believe the new version in the form of God of Knowledge is better than the default Messenger of the Gods, though. With the default one, all you need to do is connect a city, even a freshly settled one, and you receive an instant +2 science. With the new one, even if you rush buy the library needed, you still need to wait until you hit a population of 6. This also prevents, or at least slows down, the abuse that exists with the default one and rapidly expanding, since you'll need to make for 1.5 luxuries worth of happiness for each science bonus you want in your cities early on (along with the initial unhappiness from city count -- but, both beliefs deal with that).

This is all just theorycrafting and still needs testing, of course.

Another thing I was thinking about was maybe some kind of small city-state boost to Goddess of Love instead of the extra culture. When I think of "love", I don't only think of affection, but also of peace. So maybe a city-state boost would be nice (and different) alongside the 1 happiness for each city at pop 4+ when not at war. Just a thought, as I just recently noticed an used belief ability in the XML, involving city-state friendship, that I want to test out. EDIT: Actually, I just searched and found out what CityStateFriendshipModifier does. It basically has an Alexander effect. Hmm...

 

[Buridan]

I would have suggested to give the city-state boost in form of +5 to the minimum influence to city-state within 5 tiles. But it looks like it wouldn't use that CityStateFriendshipModifier

 

[Barathor]

Actually, thank you for that.

You made me take a peek into the source files and search for the "MaxDistance" variable. It's only used by FaithfromKills and not FaithfromDyingUnits. I'm only sticking with XML modifications here, to keep things simple and modular, so I guess I'm scrapping the God of War idea above! I'll probably just tweak the distance and faith percentage instead.

I've already looked into some other ones while testing some effects out, and had to make changes, but I missed that MaxDistance one since I didn't test God of War yet - saves me some time. One example is that RequiresPeace only applies to PlayerHappiness, PlayerCultureModifier, and CityGrowthModifier. It has no effect on things like HappinessPerCity - which I was going to use for Goddess of Love! (I have a new effect now.)

Also, MinPopulation doesn't affect the things that I initially thought it did. It doesn't affect bonuses applied to buildings, and other things. So, that also changes some beliefs - especially God of Knowledge. This is a good thing, though, as I now have more flexibility. For example, for God of Knowledge, I can simply have libraries give +1 science and then assign an additional +1 of a yield if the city reaches a high population later on, such as 8.

 

[chumchu]

Good work! Some suggestions: Desert folklore is much better than aurora/sacred path since it works on floodplains which are much better tiles than does. This also goes against the nomad theme of the pantheon. If you remove floodplains from it will still be useful but not an automatic choice in a desert start. As it stands it is easily 10 yield and much more in a large empire.

You can buff the yields on Iron and bananas as they are not that common.

I would design the happiness beliefs differently with one for tall empires and one for wide. Goddess of love: -10% unhappiness from population. Goddess of the city: + 1 global happiness for each city

As it stands, amphitheaters are really bad and almost never built except to get the hermitage, a belief boosting them has to be twice as strong as one boosting libraries to make them worthwhile.

One with nature is occasionally game breaking since it give large bonii to already good starts. Firstly natural wonders are really good tiles that you want to work anyway. Secondly, you might not always start near a natural wonder, but sometimes you start near 5 and play as Spain (happened to me in my first Spain game of G&K). Then you are looking at +40 faith and +40 culture from 5 worked tiles in addition to the bonii from natural wonders. If you more reasonably can snag two natural wonders as another civ it is already good as it basically gives you a free religion. If you do not, there are lots of other pantheons to choose from. You can not get these high concentrations of the other resouces.

 

[lockstep]

Qoting from the Fall Patch Notes (currently in Public Beta):

3 New Pantheons

• Earth Mother: +1 Faith from Copper, Iron, and Salt.
• God-King: +1 Culture, Faith, Gold, Production, and Science from the Palace
• Sun God: +1 Food from Bananas, Citrus, and Wheat

 

[Barathor]

Whoa, I missed that; I have some reading to do!!

Also, looks like I have more work to do, haha.

 

[lockstep]

It seems Firaxis has adopted one of your basic aims for this mod: Allocating at least one Pantheon belief to every bonus, luxury, and early strategic resource -- before 1.0.3.124, wheat, copper, salt, and iron didn't feature corresponding beliefs.

As the unmodded game provides some "specialized" (applying to only a few resources) Pantheon beliefs in addition to the general ones (e.g., Goddess of Festivals in addition to Oral Tradition), most of the beliefs introduced in your mod still seem to be warrantable. Maybe drop either your "Sacred Groves" or Firaxis' new "Sun God", as they overlap considerably. The new "Earth Mother" could serve as a general alternative to your "Purification Rituals" and "God of the Forge".

BTW, what happened to the / combo?

 

[Barathor]

Indeed, they covered all resources now, since Oral Tradition picks up the rest of them.

Yeah, I believe some are definitely still warrantable too. I was tinkering around with the mod idea in Excel before I started a new beta game as Portugal (Have a lot of gold rolling in and just got my mercenaries!)

I have to decide whether to keep the new ones, tweak them, or not include them. For the version of the mod with the default resource number, I'll probably try to keep them as-is to stick closely to the default game. God-King would just be included. Sun God will take the place of Sacred Groves and steal the Wheat from Goddess of the Harvest. I may change GoH back to Fertility Rites to avoid too much overlap with Earth Mother. Earth Mother could take the place of God the Forge (I'll change the other name back to God of Craftsmen), Incense would then go back to God of Festivals and bump out Dyes -- and, that's where I left off yesterday. Dyes are left homeless, if not counting Oral Tradition. But, all other plantation resources are represented by a belief other than Oral Tradition.

I may have to scrap Earth Mother, but I don't want to if I can avoid it. I could just keep Dyes in Festivals with the other two, and maybe reduce them to a single yield bonus. Or, I could make it a 3rd in Ceremonial Robes, and again, maybe reduce it to a single yield bonus. Or, I could come up with a new one... perhaps looking at Dyes in a different way, such as tattooing.

- - - - - -

Oh, the production/culture combo... I think I was testing out another version which ties closer to the other pantheon mod, while also staying as true as it can to the default game yields. Another thing that made me want to make the two pantheon mods more closely related is that, in the other one, I also changed Gold, Silver, and Copper back to Religious Idols (I think their materials are used more often with worshipped idols) and I'm going to change the Ivory, Ebony, and Jade one to Religious Sculpture or Divine Sculpture. Along with some other tweaks...

EDIT: Oh, another reason was because I wanted to bring Stone Circles up to par with the other ones. Marble is usually spread out throughout the map and if a civ even gets it at all, it can usually expect only 1, sometimes 2, and more than that only if they're really lucky. That, along with Stone placements not being as abundant as regional luxuries either (though, at the same time, they can be found throughout the map). So, I wanted to give Marble a 3 yield boost. At the time, I felt it would "look" a little bit uglier with a 2f/1p bonus instead of a simple 3f.

 

[lockstep]

I have to decide whether to keep the new ones, tweak them, or not include them. For the version of the mod with the default resource number, I'll probably try to keep them as-is to stick closely to the default game. [...] Sun God will take the place of Sacred Groves and steal the Wheat from Goddess of the Harvest.

Maybe add 1 to Citrus alone (to save the / combo).

Oh, the production/culture combo... I think I was testing out another version which ties closer to the other pantheon mod, while also staying as true as it can to the default game yields.

I see, but I'm hoping for (without the luxuries addon) / for God of the Forge and / for Stone Circles.

Another thing that made me want to make the two pantheon mods more closely related is that, in the other one, I also changed Gold, Silver, and Copper back to Religious Idols (I think their materials are used more often with worshipped idols) and I'm going to change the Ivory, Ebony, and Jade one to Religious Sculpture or Divine Sculpture. Along with some other tweaks...

Sounds good.

 

[Barathor]

I've also been thinking about reeling these beliefs in a bit more and reducing their strength, since pantheon beliefs are much easier to obtain than the later religious ones: founder, follower, enhancer, and reformation beliefs; and the pantheons come much earlier too.

Perhaps by dropping the resource bonuses down to a single yield, and keeping the other pantheon beliefs truer to the default game.

I'm kicking this around too.

 

[lockstep]

You'll have to decide what your (residual) mod aims are now that every bonus/luxury/early strategic resource features at least one corresponding Pantheon belief in the unmodded game.

One option is to leave resource beliefs largely untouched and concentrate on balancing the other Pantheon beliefs.

Another option is to additionally introduce more "specialised" resource beliefs which grant double bonus yields to selected resources even if a general belief granting only a single bonus yield is available for the same resources. There's at least one precedence to do so: Goddess of Festivals.