Most failproof spread of religon

[Archredbeard]

I had a game, where i wanted my vassal (Izzy) to switch religion for the diplostuff with the other AIs.

Long story short, she was in Theo (surprise ! ) so i wanted to see what happened if i gifted my missionary already standing in Toledo. Sure enough, next turn my religion spread there. So, I just started to make the needed missionaries for the reminder of her cities, ran them over and gifted them.

The nice thing was that she didnt fail to spread even one time, and that is something i have noticed ever since with gifted missionaries. The AI almost never fail to spread, i think I have seen it one or 2 times in all my games since then.

Can anyone else support this, or is it just incredible luck from my part ?

The reason why i want it confirmed/shot down, is i hate to waste hammers on something so tedious as missionaries.

 

[kossin]

Yes, Theology blocks foreign religion spreads but you can spread anything yourself.

Very useful for AP wins. (or use the settle city+spread religion+gift city)

 

[strijder20]

Yes, Theology blocks foreign religion spreads but you can spread anything yourself.

Very useful for AP wins. (or use the settle city+spread religion+gift city)

Isn't there something to prevent abuse of that?

Say : I build an empire of 10 cities, all with my religion in it, all population 10.
One turn after I build the AP, I build 5 cities (as there are 5 rivals on the map) near the borders of my rivals, spread my religion in it and gift them to the AIs.
Normally, I would get a diplo win, with over 95% of the , say ,Confucianist population living in my land.
But I assume there is something to prevent that.

 

[GGracchus]

^Yeah, you can't have more than 75% of the votes.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Also, if someone has 3+ religions in their cities, you have bad odds of spreading yours. They don't have great odds to spread a new religion to their own cities either, but their odds are better than yours. (I think spreading a religion to someone else goes down as low as 40%, while spreading to yours won't drop below 70%).

 

[Archredbeard]

Yes, Theology blocks foreign religion spreads but you can spread anything yourself.

Very useful for AP wins. (or use the settle city+spread religion+gift city)

Well, i know Theology blocks foreign religion spreads, but, my observation regarding missionaries still stand undebated, i mean, it dosnt matter if they are in Theo or not, they dont seem to fail spreading the new religion.

I mean, i can run a missionary to someone running Organised religion, and fail in 3-4 attempts to spread it, whereas if i just gift the missionary, they never seem to fail spreading it on their own.

This last try maybe makes my OP a bit clearer on the subject, at least i hope

 

[strijder20]

^Yeah, you can't have more than 75% of the votes.

So, after you have 75% or more of the votes, you can't go for diplo anymore?
That sounds daft too, as you could have 80% of the votes but have every other player vote for you too.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

If you have 75% but haven't won domination, it's because you're doing something gamey like only spreading the religion to 1 city per AI. To get below 75%, you don't need to lose cities, you just need to spread the religion more. But that still leaves the possibility of having 1 strong ally with your religion, then spreading the religion as outlined above.

Diplo victory through AP feels gamey on the whole. A lot of players don't like the AP in general (me included).

 

[ecuwins]

Gifting missionaries seems to be the deal. The AI seems to always use them, they have better odds, & you can gift as soon as it crosses the AI border(saving on maintenance).

Is there any + to diplo for gifting units?

 

[GGracchus]

So, after you have 75% or more of the votes, you can't go for diplo anymore?
That sounds daft too, as you could have 80% of the votes but have every other player vote for you too.

You shouldn't have more than 75% unless you are stupidly close to domination/conquest or have been gifting missionaries. Even then, you can just spread until you're barely under the 75% and get a civ to vote for you, pushing you over 75.

 

[vorlon_mi]

...so i wanted to see what happened if i gifted my missionary already standing in Toledo. Sure enough, next turn my religion spread there. So, I just started to make the needed missionaries for the reminder of her cities, ran them over and gifted them.

That's why I love this forum. I would have never thought to do this.

In a way, it makes sense. The AI receives a gift, and doesn't have the depth of strategic thinking to realize that there might be a downside to using the gift. So, it uses the missionary for its primary mission -- to spread a religion.

I had a game recently where I had vassalized Alexander, who happened to be on another landmass. Since the AI stinks at planning and executing naval invasions, and he certainly wouldn't have planned ahead to support the invasion that *I* was planning, I gifted him a couple of transports. Just sailed 'em into his territorial waters and stuck a bow on them. Lo and behold, a few turns after I declared war (and he declared, too) the transports arrived, filled with his troops.

 

[Celebithil]

Another way to avoid the inability to select the diplo victory when you can vote yourself the winner all by yourself is to have slightly less than the required number of votes at the option selection moment, select the diplo victory option and then increase your number of votes after selecting the diplo option and before the tallying of the votes. That is, convert a few big cities of your own to this religion, or make sure all your cities grow (which also works for UN victories) that turn. (The latter can be arranged by proper use of the "avoid growth" button.)

It still is a little to much work to do this in practice but kind of fun to figure out it works.

 

[raxid]

That's why I love this forum. I would have never thought to do this.

In a way, it makes sense. The AI receives a gift, and doesn't have the depth of strategic thinking to realize that there might be a downside to using the gift. So, it uses the missionary for its primary mission -- to spread a religion.

I had a game recently where I had vassalized Alexander, who happened to be on another landmass. Since the AI stinks at planning and executing naval invasions, and he certainly wouldn't have planned ahead to support the invasion that *I* was planning, I gifted him a couple of transports. Just sailed 'em into his territorial waters and stuck a bow on them. Lo and behold, a few turns after I declared war (and he declared, too) the transports arrived, filled with his troops.

To be fair, except in the case where the user is trying to 'game' an AP victory, the correct choice is to use the missionary. Having more religions for free in your town is a great deal. Note even in the 'gamey' situation getting control of the AP religion is awesome as each religious building gives +2 and you can spread it to all your towns and block the 'gamey' move if you so choose anyway.

Now as you said the computer doesn't consider all that, but in my estimation most of the time it is the right choice anyways,

 

[Ataxerxes]

Gifting missionaries seems to be the deal. The AI seems to always use them, they have better odds, & you can gift as soon as it crosses the AI border(saving on maintenance).

Is there any + to diplo for gifting units?

Gifting missionaries is usually better, as you point out. The only situation where you might not want to is if you're going for AP victory (I seldom do) you might want the missionary in the least populous city.

Sorry, no +diplo for gifting units. You don't even get diplo for gifting technologies "out of the blue". The +diplo comes from agreeing to requests and the AI never requests units. The exception is on the first meeting - any sort of a free gift (like 10 Gold) gets you +4 immediately but that diplo bonus decays quickly.

On some of the Historical Victories in Rhye's and Fall you have to use this trick.