most historically incorrect movie!

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Burma was a BRITISH possion at the time, Britain was attacked the same day the US was, so they couldn't have been defending the Burma road, as Britain was neutral!

Actually, British Malaya was attacked - at Singora, the site of a forward RAF base, if I'm not mistaken - an hour or two before Pearl Harbor; the Japanese were (rightly) relying on bad British communication in their decision to land early with the right tides. Burma was well beyond the range of any Japanese units, and was attacked well after the fall of Siam, Malaya and Singapore in early 1942.

I should add that the fact that they attacked the UK before the declaration of war puts the lie to the whole idea that the Japanese cared about the "honor" of getting the declaration in on time.

To add a couple of non-military movies to the list, I have always been particularly appalled by JFK and All the President's Men, both great hagiographies that pretended shamelessly to be history.

R.III

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Richard III
Actually, British Malaya was attacked - at Singora, the site of a forward RAF base, if I'm not mistaken - an hour or two before Pearl Harbor; the Japanese were (rightly) relying on bad British communication in their decision to land early with the right tides. Burma was well beyond the range of any Japanese units, and was attacked well after the fall of Siam, Malaya and Singapore in early 1942.

Japanese aircraft attked Singapore, Hong Kong, the Phillipines on the same day as Pearl Harbour. The ground units followed close behind. Siam never fall; they collaborated with the Japanese (they were wholly a independent kingdom; only one of two to do so in Asia. The other being Japan itself). During the war, they were rewarded with extra territories in northern Malaya and Cambodia.

In Malaya, the Japanese landed first at Kota Bahru (point closest to Japanese-contolled Vichy Indo-China) and then moved inland.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Not possible Richard, it was STILL DARK in Malaya as Pearl Harbor was hit.

 

[gr8ful wes]

I guess I assumed that since the group was formed and training in Aug/ Sept. it was active. Plate of crow please.

The Book I have Is By Col. Trevor Nevitt Dupuy called The Air War in The Pacific: Victory in the Air. Not much detail other than stating that Chennault had about 90 airmen assembled and training at an unused RAF base in Burma.


And was that a complaint about Jeremayah Johnson? I like that movie, and it seems pretty acurate to me. Although the bear scene is goofy as hell, loosly based on several folktales/jokes.

 

[joespaniel]

Thanks for the reply AoA, but I still cant remember the name of the book about him.
It is written in Russian, but was translated to English...

Ah fooey! I must be getting old too.

John Wayne was in The Longest Day, not a bad movie at all.
But aside from that, yeah, his movies were silly.

Wes mentioned das boot. I liked that one too.

 

[Yoda Power]

I havent in my entire live seen a historical correct movie, therefor i dont see so many "historical" movies becorse they always p**s me of so much. I think that Hollywood should do something but they dont agree with mee(thats a shame).

 

[Flatlander Fox]

For someone who knows a bit about the Old West, Tombstone was the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. I couldn't even enjoy it, because of the historical inaccuracies.

Wyatt Earp at least TRIED to follow along with the history books, and did a decent job of it. (only time Costner ever did that )

The John Wayne flicks were patriotic propaganda, but it was still pretty good for that day and age.

Das Boot was an OUTSTANDING movie, as was Full Metal Jacket, at least for the Marine Boot Camp experience.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Red Dawn

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Not possible Richard, it was STILL DARK in Malaya as Pearl Harbor was hit.

Knight Dragon is right, it's Kota Bharu (I knew it was either it or Singora, but my source was here in TO and I was in DC so I guessed and guessed wrong). And I actually know squat about Siam's role in the war, other than the fact that a whole lot of Japanese troops crossed over its territory just to kill my grandfather. The cheek!

But AoA, it was still dark, and yet those clever Japanese from the 56th Infantry Regiment landed at high tide at 0045 hours December 8, 1941, seventy minutes before the attack on Pearl. (see the impeccably sourced "Battleship: The Loss of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse" by Martin Middlebrook and Patrick Mahoney.)

Astonishing, I know, but those Japanese managed to do the impossible fairly often that day...

EDIT: And KD, that puts the landings before the air-raids on Singapore and elsewhere. Their target was an RAAF naval air wing at the RAF station there: the Japanese were concerned that the base could be used to stage air attacks on landings later in the day. And while I have to dig a little further, the stuff I'm looking at now suggests that Siam may have been pushed rather than persuaded to collaborate, in the same way Manchukuo was pushed...

R.III

 

[stalin006]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Red Dawn

well.......taht is fiction...maybe historical fiction.........but they wasted a cool ...way cool plot, a soviet invasion of the US, in todays special effects taht would be BIG, like independence day and saving privarte ryan togheter ^_^ w/ soviet troops ofcourse

 

[God]

Originally posted by Richard III


Knight Dragon is right, it's Kota Bharu (I knew it was either it or Singora, but my source was here in TO and I was in DC so I guessed and guessed wrong). And I actually know squat about Siam's role in the war, other than the fact that a whole lot of Japanese troops crossed over its territory just to kill my grandfather. The cheek!

What a coincidence! One of my grandfathers was in the British army as a Captain (the other one was in Burma shooting down Japanese planes in his plane) and was part of a large group of soldiers being moved to Singapore days before it was captured. He would have died if he had gone there, but overnight the whole lot of ships turned around and went off to quell a rebellion in Iraq!

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by God
What a coincidence! One of my grandfathers was in the British army as a Captain (the other one was in Burma shooting down Japanese planes in his plane) and was part of a large group of soldiers being moved to Singapore days before it was captured. He would have died if he had gone there, but overnight the whole lot of ships turned around and went off to quell a rebellion in Iraq!

Mine was a SM with 14th Army's artillery for the duration, 42-45. Please allow me to pause CFC for a moment so I can thank your grandfather for keeping mine fed and stocked with ammo at Imphal.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Richard III
Knight Dragon is right, it's Kota Bharu (I knew it was either it or Singora, but my source was here in TO and I was in DC so I guessed and guessed wrong). And I actually know squat about Siam's role in the war, other than the fact that a whole lot of Japanese troops crossed over its territory just to kill my grandfather. The cheek!

They got RoP with the Japanese. Not like they can reject.

I'd been to Kota Bahru a few times yrs ago. Sleepy frontier town. Nice beach. Nothing to see of the landing though I think.

Where is Singora? I don't know of any such town in M'sia.

EDIT: And KD, that puts the landings before the air-raids on Singapore and elsewhere. Their target was an RAAF naval air wing at the RAF station there: the Japanese were concerned that the base could be used to stage air attacks on landings later in the day. And while I have to dig a little further, the stuff I'm looking at now suggests that Siam may have been pushed rather than persuaded to collaborate, in the same way Manchukuo was pushed...

They had no choice; with the Japanese forces already pouring into Vichy Indo-China next door. Plus I think the military junta in power at this time was pretty nationalistic and wanted to retake back its lost territories in Cambodia and N Malaya. Sometime before the war ended, this junta was overthrown I think and Siam quietly returned to the Allied camp when the tide turned against the Japanese.

Manchukuo was wholly set up by the Japanese; can't really be compared with an ancient sovereign kingdom like Siam which had been around for centuries. I think the Japanese let Siam off rather easily because they respected it for its ability to remain independent in spite of all the European colonies around it.

 

[joespaniel]

Most Americans dont even know that the whole Pacific went up in flames that day.

Pearl Harbor was the pivotal event though, consequently bringing the US into the war. (Awful movie btw, they should have done it more like Tora-Tora-Tora, and left out the "chick-appeal" stuff.)

I checked some of my dusty tomes, and heres the timeline:

LOCAL TIMES:

Landings in Malaya - 0100 8 Dec
Peral Harbor - 0755 7 Dec
Hong Kong (first air attack) - 0800 8 Dec
Luzon (first air attack) - 0930 8 Dec

Eastern US Times (for AoA):

Malaya - 1230 7 Dec
Pearl - 1255 7 Dec
Hong Kong - 1900 7 Dec
Luzon - 2030 7 Dec

London Times (for Richard III):

Malaya - 1730 7 Dec
Pearl - 1755 7 Dec
Hong Kong - 2400 7 Dec
Luzon - 0130 8 Dec

Obviously a well coordinated effort.

Also, the official opening act of war that day:
British scout plane near the Japanese invasion force shot down several hours before the landings in Knight-Dragon's back yard.

Hope that clears things up a little.

My grandfather (on my dad's side) was a tailgunner of a bomber, and flew missions against the Japanese in Burma, China and India.
I have all of his medals (Air Medal, DFC) and orders. I will scan them and post it some day, they are impressive.

Returning from an aborted bombing mission (bad weather), they spotted a Japanese troop ship and decided to go after it. They bombed and sunk it, causing the death of an estimated 1800 Japanese infantry and the ship's crew.

He never talked about it, and my grandmother told me he had nightmares about it, even 40 years later.

War really is hell.

 

[joespaniel]

My grandfather, probably not even 20 years old.

 

[joespaniel]

He was a German-American, but I dont think that had anything to do with his being sent to the Pacific.

At least I dont think so.

My other Grandfather was Polish-American, and was sent to fight the Nazis.

Seems odd, perhaps just a coincidence.

 

[AnarchyBoy]

One of my favorite innacurate classic movies is "The Ten Commandments". Charleton Heston playing Moses is about as reasonable as Woody Allen playing George Washington. The best scene is when the Israelites are involved in "vile affectations" which seem to consist mostly of feeding eachother grapes, giving eachother piggy-back rides, and swaying their heads in a long conga line like the June Taylor dancers.

 

[gr8ful wes]

Originally posted by AnarchyBoy
One of my favorite innacurate classic movies is "The Ten Commandments". Charleton Heston playing Moses is about as reasonable as Woody Allen playing George Washington. The best scene is when the Israelites are involved in "vile affectations" which seem to consist mostly of feeding eachother grapes, giving eachother piggy-back rides, and swaying their heads in a long conga line like the June Taylor dancers.

I was going to say something very similar
Heston was good, but thoe people were silly.

 

[Richard III]

Wow, quite the China-Burma-India brat's club we have going here! I'll pass on the same thanks to your ancestors, Joespaniel. In my recent reading of Slim's bio, came across more than one reference by him to outstanding work by US air in the region.

Joe, I'm in Toronto, although of Brit parentage, FYI...

My source swears it's seventy minutes before Pearl, so I wonder if there was a time zone difference then. But no need to quibble; we seem to agree that Malaya took it before dawn. Just waiting for AoA to say "oh" now...

Knight-Dragon, I re-read Battleship last night, and rediscovered the Singora reference. I remember the name so well because it was the site of the largest Japanese landing that day; hence it was the original target of the excursion that sent the Prince of Wales and Repulse to sea. They later corrected south to Kota Bharu, thinking that the Singora shipping had moved elsewhere, and then finally stopped and turned at Kuantan based on false reports of landings there (perhaps in response to a Japanese deception ploy).

In fact, Singora is in Siam/Thailand on the border of Malaya, Malaysia and was one of several sites where the Japanese landed along the north of the Peninsula that morning. The Singora force was after a small airstrip, too, but also there because the site offered a good opportunity to turn and flank deep inland. As for Kota Bharu, the fighting was very brief, apparently; the Indian unit (unlike so many my grandfather fought beside in the 14th) turned and ran within minutes of contact.

R.III

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by AnarchyBoy
The best scene is when the Israelites are involved in "vile affectations" which seem to consist mostly of feeding eachother grapes, giving eachother piggy-back rides, and swaying their heads in a long conga line like the June Taylor dancers.

Reminds me of "North and South," which I should add to this list (if a miniseries qualifies). Every time something happened (Lincoln elected, South secedes, Victory at Wherever, etc) there are always these people "dancing in the streets" or "marching in outrage" in the most awfully staged ways: carrying carefully printed placards that say "Lincoln Out!" and walking around in circles waving their fists, for example. Very painful.

And their treatment of slavery... hell, Birth of a Nation was more honest about it than "North and South" was.

R.III