Most Unique Complaint I've Seen Yet
- Thread starter jtwood
- Start date
MadRat
Cheese Raider
No, the point is Darius would definitely NOT be speaking Arabic - all the other civ leaders speak the dominant national language of their time. It is all about historicity not catering to minorities. It would be like having Montezuma speaking in Spanish.
Please check your racial paranoia in at the door.
Rat
Matthew, what are you arguing here? Are you saying Darius spoke only old persian? He likely spoke several languages, and one of them was an generic aramaic dialect called imperial aramaic. Have you taken the time to read about it as I have, while taking your argument seriously?
The way I'm seeing it from what I'm reading, some or most people in modern-day northwest iran spoke either old persian and aramaic or some kurdish dialect and aramaic. This is because of the assyrian conquests a couple hundred years prior. That's just how culture goes.
It's why there are greek inscriptions and locality names in egypt. Yes, people in egypt spoke whatever modern egypt language was at the time (some coptic dialect?) but the learned people, the traders and the government representatives spoke greek. Just as in Medes, people spoke old persian, and they spoke aramaic.
Further, the regality of the Achaemenids elected for the purpose of communication, so no edicts were misunderstood, to adopt imperial aramaic. Why are you arguing it? No one's saying Darius didn't speak whatever language, he probably spoke 4 or more. We're saying "yes people spoke aramaic", "yes darius likely spoke aramaic", "yes darius used aramaic to communicate with his empire".
One of the better spoken comment of the whole thread.
Let me try to connect the dots here:
Some people say it's a game -> So i think it's very reasonable for the game to speak to the gamer. As well as people have suggested that Elizabeth were not speaking old english. The game was obviously not trying to be historically accurate.
And please people, stop bashing already. How hard is it to RESPECT another one's culture, value and believes? People who attack the complaints are the roots of conflicts which we don't need more in this world.
I personally think that if Darius speaking Farsi makes more unhappy people happy, then it's a valid complaint. Really there are no points to go all the way back in the history lesson.
But he's not speaking Arabic, he's speaking Aramaic, which according to the holy and reliable
P) Wikipedia was made into the official language of Persia by Darius I.This source, for whatever it's worth, seems to suggest that Aramaic was not widely known, but it was definitely used for administrative purposes. Diplomacy/foreign affairs = administrative or official duty.
This has nothing to do with racial paranoia. I think you might want to tell that to the guy who has never been so offended in his life. You know, the guy that jumped to conclusions and then had an immediate reaction of racial/linguistic repulsion?
I prefer reliance on history. If Aramaic was the closest they could get, I prefer that over Farsi any day.
M
Me,myself,and,I
Guest
On Darius: Aramaic was the lingua Franca of the Achmaemenid empire. Seriously just look it up.
On Thermopylae: There were 1,500 Thebans and 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. the MINIMUM estimate for Xerxes army was 50,000. The Greeks out fought the Persian IMMORTALS
at the narrow pass until they were betrayed by a native. When they heard they were being flanked they retreated to a nearby hill and fought to the last man. This, coupled with the victory at Salamis, caused Xerxes and much of his army to withdraw (for fear of being stranded) and gave the Greek armies time to regroup. Eventually the remainder of Xerxes force was defeated near the isthmus leading to the Peloponnese. On net the Persians took significantly more casualties at Thermopylae and throughout the war.
On Thermopylae: There were 1,500 Thebans and 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. the MINIMUM estimate for Xerxes army was 50,000. The Greeks out fought the Persian IMMORTALS
at the narrow pass until they were betrayed by a native. When they heard they were being flanked they retreated to a nearby hill and fought to the last man. This, coupled with the victory at Salamis, caused Xerxes and much of his army to withdraw (for fear of being stranded) and gave the Greek armies time to regroup. Eventually the remainder of Xerxes force was defeated near the isthmus leading to the Peloponnese. On net the Persians took significantly more casualties at Thermopylae and throughout the war.
MadRat
Cheese Raider
From what i have seen, the problem is that many have insisted that Darius in the game spoke Aramaic, but his first greeting spoken is "Salaam Alaykum", which is most definitely Arabic. I cant judge the rest of the speech, but I think this is where the bone is for those who are frothing at the mouths.
MadRat
Cheese Raider
Can someone then confirm whether or not his other quotes (if any) are arabic or aramaic? It sounded like Salaam Aleykum to me; but i'm not familliar with those languages despite being a cunning linguist.
Rat
No, he would just make Aramaic the official language of Iran again, like he did before ( according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_I_of_Persia ).
Shlamaa 'alekon is Aramaic for Salaam Aleykum. They're both semitic, so much is the same, and that greeting, meaning "peace to you" is timeless.
In Hebrew it's shalom alaykhem. In maltese it's Sliem għalikhom. Extinct Phoenecian was Salem 'aleykhem.
This is all transliterated though, you know... spelled out in english letters in the best method from the phoenetic sounds.
In Hebrew it's shalom alaykhem. In maltese it's Sliem għalikhom. Extinct Phoenecian was Salem 'aleykhem.
This is all transliterated though, you know... spelled out in english letters in the best method from the phoenetic sounds.
If it's supposed to be Arabic, he's mis-pronouncing the phrase.
To be fair to the Iranians, how would any of you feel if Elizabeth and Washington were speaking German. Hell, English is basically German plus a bit of Latin and French right? Who cares about the difference they're both European languages they sound the same right? 
To be fair I suppose Elizabeth spoke late-Middle English and Washington spoke Early Modern English which is why their syntax etc sounds weird when you hear quotes by them (Lizzy moreso than Georgie) but you get my point.
However it depends what Darius would have actually spoken. Would he actually have spoken Aramaic?
I suppose it all depends on how much attention to detail Firaxis are going with, and then they have to apply that same attention to each culture.
ie: Ghandi would have spoken Hindi or English (which he was fluent in and spoke the most after his studies), Alexander would have spoken Ancient Greek [or Macedonian?] (as opposed to modern Greek). Does the Chinese chick speak Cantonese or Mandarin or some Ancient Chinese Dialect?
To be fair I suppose Elizabeth spoke late-Middle English and Washington spoke Early Modern English which is why their syntax etc sounds weird when you hear quotes by them (Lizzy moreso than Georgie) but you get my point.
However it depends what Darius would have actually spoken. Would he actually have spoken Aramaic?
I suppose it all depends on how much attention to detail Firaxis are going with, and then they have to apply that same attention to each culture.
ie: Ghandi would have spoken Hindi or English (which he was fluent in and spoke the most after his studies), Alexander would have spoken Ancient Greek [or Macedonian?] (as opposed to modern Greek). Does the Chinese chick speak Cantonese or Mandarin or some Ancient Chinese Dialect?
mercury529
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2007
- Messages
- 180
Does no one see the hypocrisy in being irate that Firaxis did not have proper respect for how much a language can mean to a culture while simultaneously misidentifying the language being spoken?
If historical accuracy was the aim (and the explanation given by 2kGreg here suggested it was) Aramaic is a much better choice than Farsi. It is generally held that Darius spoke Aramaic, if only as a lingua franca. Does anyone here believe Darius spoke Farsi?
At best, there is an argument that Darius should speak Old Persian rather than Aramaic. But I am yet to see anyone provide evidence that Darius would speak Old Persian over Aramaic in either diplomatic affairs or in his own home.
If historical accuracy was the aim (and the explanation given by 2kGreg here suggested it was) Aramaic is a much better choice than Farsi. It is generally held that Darius spoke Aramaic, if only as a lingua franca. Does anyone here believe Darius spoke Farsi?
At best, there is an argument that Darius should speak Old Persian rather than Aramaic. But I am yet to see anyone provide evidence that Darius would speak Old Persian over Aramaic in either diplomatic affairs or in his own home.
It is absolutlely obvious that the Persians should speak Iranian, and nothing else!
All the other nations use their current versions of languages, so should it be with the Iranians.
Or don't you think that Victoriy spoke a different version of English than the current one?
Its the same in German, I as a german speaker, wouldn't understand what a german speaking guy from the 16. Century was talking about.
And its the same with Persia. Its their country, its their language, and its their right to have it represented in this game correctly.
Next time Washington speaks French.. One of their Generals during the independence war was french.. so who cares? Its all the same babling...
All the other nations use their current versions of languages, so should it be with the Iranians.
Or don't you think that Victoriy spoke a different version of English than the current one?
Its the same in German, I as a german speaker, wouldn't understand what a german speaking guy from the 16. Century was talking about.
And its the same with Persia. Its their country, its their language, and its their right to have it represented in this game correctly.
Next time Washington speaks French.. One of their Generals during the independence war was french.. so who cares? Its all the same babling...
herp derp
There were 300 spartans and 800 slaves..not 2-3k troops, and those 1100 people did the majority of the fighting, against a vastly superior force. By any imagination other than yours, the Persian army got embarrassed at Thermopylae.
Also, there is only one instance of a full strength spartan army ever being defeated in battle, and it wasn't by Xerxes. And yes, he did face a full spartan army in Greece, along with other Greek forces. No, he didn't win.
From Mallipeep's link:
Darius organized the empire, by dividing it into provinces and placing governors to govern it. He organized a new uniform monetary system, along with making Aramaic the official language of the empire.
It's already been confirmed that he speaks Aramaic, in the game and in real life.
Darius organized the empire, by dividing it into provinces and placing governors to govern it. He organized a new uniform monetary system, along with making Aramaic the official language of the empire.
It's already been confirmed that he speaks Aramaic, in the game and in real life.
When the battle started they hadover 8k
