[Reopened Thread] You Don't Like Civ5? How to Make a Difference.

[ash88]

That isn't my argument. The overwhelming majority of BBB staff members are fine people who do their job well. However, as with any large organization, you are going to have employees who bend/break the rules. I'm sure these people are released or fired once it is discovered but that doesn't stop it from happening. As for the relevancy, which was more my point, I'll take your example. EA sports received a little over 800 complaints over a three year span. I don't see how 800 complaints is relevant considering EA is one of the largest gaming companies with what probably amounts to billions in sales. I'm sure BBB is relevant to those 800 people, assuming no duplicates, but I fail to see how a percent of a percent of a percent can be deemed as being relevant.

I suppose using this argument 2K Games has employees who bend/break the rules as well. It's good that in the case that you're a recipient of that bending/breaking you can contact the BBB

As for "relevance" we are arguing two different things (I think). You are saying that the BBB is irrelevant because people use other sources to gauge the integrity of a company. I can't disagree with that - we, as consumers, are stupid . However I am saying that the BBB was relevant to 80% of the people that contacted them (in regard to EA) because 80% of those people received a satisfactory result after asking them to arbitrate.

I don't think its reasonable to base the effectiveness of the organization on what they "could" do (if all disgruntled consumers contacted them). Rather I think it is more reasonable to base it on what they have done (80% satisfaction rate).

Afterall, if there is one thing this thread has proven it's that people simply don't understand that contacting them is an option. With an 80% satisfactory result rate - just imagine what would happen if people knew enough to contact them?

Cheers

 

[HoTT-NiXX]

Very true on all accounts just took a few messages to realize we are actually on the same page. I think if people used BBB on a mass scale things would be different. However, instead of actually contacting someone who can help them they prefer to just rant to their friends or post disgruntled messages on the web. As a side, note I'm sure 2k games does have a few of those bad seeds.

Please note I actualy enjoy Civ5 but do think it could've been so much more given the depth they had to work with.

 

[fugazi]

Step 1: don't buy the game next time around until it's been released for at least over a month. Then, read the forums and get an idea of how it's being received. Result will most likely be that you say 'screw that, I'll play the old one instead'.
Step 2: spend money on stuff that's actually worth it.

 

[Rooftrellen]

I'm not sure I can do much suggested here, but I am mad about two things, and unless both are fixed, I won't be buying any more games from any of the three companies involved.

The first is the crashing. I would worry more about it, think something was wrong with my computer, except it seems to be quite a common problem, and a problem that can hopefully be fixed.

The second is the bigger problem, because, simply, it won't be fixed. I'm not sure what your games in English say, but in Portuguese, my case says Steam is required to install the game. Whatever, I said, got the game, got Steam, installed the game, then uninstalled Steam, and went to start my game...which was gone. Steam isn't needed to INSTALL as it said, it is needed to PLAY.

As I have been told, it would be illegal to sell their intellectual property, but used book stores are doing nothing wrong, and, as such, I have to keep Steam on my computer to play my game, regardless of what the case said.

I'm not going to jump though hoops to get attention. I'm just not going to buy anything that requires Steam to "install" anymore, or anything from 2k or Firaxis, and if anyone asks me about my opinion on games (which is quite common), a warning will come with anything connected to these companies.

If they fix the crashing, it was worth the money, I suppose. If not, I probably won't get my money's worth. Either way, I'm not happy about having a 3rd party's program (and ads which seem to appear with some regularity) forced to stay on my computer, just so I can't sell their game...as I can with any book or movie (but my dissatisfaction with that is separate from the crashing and misinformation on the box.)

 

[ash88]

Step 1: don't buy the game next time around until it's been released for at least over a month. Then, read the forums and get an idea of how it's being received. Result will most likely be that you say 'screw that, I'll play the old one instead'.
Step 2: spend money on stuff that's actually worth it.

Step 3: Be content supporting an industry/company with no integrity when it releases a product to it's customers.

I have no argument with people choosing this model; this is the most common model out there! However I wanted to provide people with an option for another route. Whether they take advantage of it or not - well - it's for each individual to decide for themselves.

 

[Senethro]

If they fix the crashing, it was worth the money, I suppose. If not, I probably won't get my money's worth. Either way, I'm not happy about having a 3rd party's program (and ads which seem to appear with some regularity) forced to stay on my computer, just so I can't sell their game...as I can with any book or movie (but my dissatisfaction with that is separate from the crashing and misinformation on the box.)

Have you tried looking in the options menu and turnin the ads off? Perhaps this did not occur to you.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Have you tried looking in the options menu and turnin the ads off? Perhaps this did not occur to you.

Actually, I had looked, but didn't see anything that set off any thoughts that it would stop the pop-ups. I just did a little search, though, and found out that if I disable news about "additions or changes to my games" that it will also disable those pop-ups.

With that, I may give CiV another go today. Seems like after 90% of the crashes I get the consolation prize of a sale on a game, so maybe disabling that will help...but probably not...

I'm sure you can imagine that does not fix the discontent with needing a 3rd party program installed to play the game, but, at the very least, I can stop getting taunted upon crashing.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Actually, I had looked, but didn't see anything that set off any thoughts that it would stop the pop-ups. I just did a little search, though, and found out that if I disable news about "additions or changes to my games" that it will also disable those pop-ups.

"Notify me (with Steam instant messages) additions or changes to my games, new releases, and upcoming releases"

Checkboxes with the word "Notify me" always ring alarm bells for me. Just sayin'.

These days I've gotten over the annoyance and leave them enabled anyway, in case a good deal comes up.

 

[Misotu]

So anyway, back to the original theme, which was how to make a difference. Sadly, looking at the posts from this board made by US members, it looks like legislation in the US actually supports industry (who are already strong) vs the consumer (who is, of course weak). This is a pity, and I can only suggest that American consumers examine the UK model, and of course other models from around the civilised world, and perhaps agitate for change (esemjay esp. take note with your very depressing "it can't be done" arguments, heh).

In the UK, the picture is different because statute has intervened to protect consumers of goods and services who would otherwise be vulnerable because they lack the bargaining power of the business organisations with which they contract. This has occurred, and been upheld, in a number of types of contract. Here are the terms of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, which will I imagine govern most of the transactions that are relevant here:

In sale of goods contracts, when a buyer gives money in return for goods from a seller, the consumer is protected by way of the terms implied by the SGA 1979, which are promises made by the seller and read into the contract, as follows: (and I have edited to remove options probably inapplicable but you are welcome to look the whole lot up if you're interested):

• when goods are sold by description, the seller promises that they will correspond with the description (s13(1)). I refer readers to the MP options advertised specifically, hem hem, and other bits and pieces that either did not work, or were simply not available which I'm sure I've seen mentioned but don't ask me for a list . Lack of MP functionality would, I am sure, be sufficient under the Act.
• The seller promises that the goods are of satisfactory quality. Yes, yes, I know. But you will argue this one until the cows come home and no-one in their right mind would take it to legislation, so Firaxis and 2K can laugh at anyone who is adamant that the reverse is true. That's the law for you.

Firaxis/2K are definitely in breach of UK Sale of Goods Act legislation with regard to multi-player, so far as I understand the reports from affected users. For the rest ... well, the game is crap performance wise, and 2k can probably think themselves lucky that they have so complex a shield as computer technology. I personally think waiting minutes for a turn to end on a PC that is not crap nor outdated is unacceptable. But I don't think UK law has defined terms for PC game performance yet :wry grin: