[Reopened Thread] You Don't Like Civ5? How to Make a Difference.

[ash88]

This prior thread was locked but after some moderator revisions, I've been allowed to open a new thread on the topic. This has been re-opened with permission of the moderators. They have instructed that it will be watched very closely, and any flaming or trolling will be dealt with severely.

If you are unhappy with your purchase, these are some simple things you can do. Always be courteous, but let them know of your dissatisfaction. This is a way you can possibly make an impact, to ensure that they listen and do a better job on Civ 6.

This post is strictly informative to let consumers know of other options available to them, that can be very worthwhile in letting the developers and publishers of the Civilization series know of your dissatisfaction. We all want a Civ 6 that will truly stand the test of time.

Step 1) Contact the company
The first step is to contact the company. In this case 2k Games. Be sure to leave your insults and anger out of it. Simply state that you are dissatisfied, and why, and what you expect to be done in order to be satisfied. You can reach them at 1-866-219-9839(US Only) or 1-800-638-0127(Canada Only). For further contact information see this link. Be sure to document every call, your hold times, and everything said.

Step 2) Ask to be escalated
If you don't receive an adequate resolution give them one more chance to respond reasonably. Ask to speak to the Customer Service Manager (not just a supervisor). In the case that you get a line like, "It is not our policy to" then simply ask to speak to the person that writes the company's policy. Just because a company writes some policy on a piece of paper doesn't mean that their policy is above the law of good customer relations. Also, be aggressive, but polite! Find phone numbers and call them - navigate the companies phone directory - leave messages for people even if you aren't sure if that person can directly help you. Be a squeaky wheel. Make sure that all your squeaking is done politely. Don't take no for an answer. If they say no then ask to speak to their boss. If they refuse to forward you any higher then call back and find someone who will. When you feel you have exhausted your options take the next step:

Step 3) Contact the Better Business Bureau (BBB)
The BBB is an organization that (among other things) represents consumers. If you feel like "you are just one person and they don't care" then sometimes the BBB can help. It's noteworthy that 2K Games is not registered with the BBB, and they have a rating of "F" as a company - having ignored 21 requests from the BBB at this point, resolved 10 issues, and 1 has been administratively closed (out of 32 total). You can find the details that the BBB has on 2K Games here. It is not difficult to launch a complaint, and with enough complaints a company tends to lose credibility if they continually fail to answer. Only use this as a last resort, and be prepared to fill out detailed and concrete information. Also - check out some of the other companies you buy games from, and maybe look elsewhere if a company does not have a good rating.

Blizzard Entertainment (B) (Accredited)
2K Games (F) (Unaccredited)
EA Games (A+) (Unaccredited)

Step 4) Contact the FTC (even if you live outside the US!)
If you believe that 2K has not been truthful to you through their advertising campaign then you should contact the FTC regardless of whether you do the previous steps. However, you need to have concrete examples. The FTC will launch an investigation if the amount of dollars are significant or if the issue effected enough people. It's easy to do if you don't mind being detailed in your information and are committed to giving them an honest, concrete complaint.

Now listen: you aren't going to change the gaming industry alone. Chances are you will get a refund if you refuse to let the issue go and consistently contact and recontact the company - but you may not. At the very least these are some steps to take with any gaming company that you may be dissatisfied with. If people, like you, do this every time then together there may be an impact.

*** This is an informative post only. If there are questions or comments, keep them civil. These are solely alternative options to take to improve the game we all love.

 

[Frozensky]

I'm not sure that the BBB or FCC is supposed to be involved just because a product is disappointing.

The closest thing you'd have a legitimate concern is that the company sells DLC civs on the basis that they work in multiplayer when they don't. For all the stink you'd have to raise, you might get 7 bucks back and they'll simply change the listing to show it's single-player only.

In addition, the devs may not have any contact with whoever's taking phone calls at 2K. At least there's a chance that they're reading forums. Imo, negative (but constructive) forum feedback is still the best answer.

Imo, anyway.

Edit: Actually, the steam store no longer says they can be used in multiplayer.

 

[Ciproflox]

As a compensation, I'd grant all complainers a 5% discount on Civ 6 or a free-dlc-coupon for Civ 6 for that matter.

 

[Ahriman]

Ummm... no.

Don't Like vanilla Civ5 as is? How do make a difference:
1. Work on a mod, or playtest one and give feedback.
2. See point 1.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: No more spam.
Every spam post afterwards will get infracted.

 

[Dryhad]

Ummm... no.

Don't Like vanilla Civ5 as is? How do make a difference:
1. Work on a mod, or playtest one and give feedback.
2. See point 1.

Unfortunately, my only issue with Civ5 is that it's really not as moddable as we were lead to believe. For obvious reasons, this can't be fixed by modding

 

[joyous_gard]

Sometimes a concerned citizen provides a form letter and address for people to voice their concerns...

Not saying I am the laziest person in the world, but my generation isn't known for splitting the atom or building the Great Wall.

The biggest complaint against the game as far as actual complaints go for me is the crashing after being well-within the minimum to recommended specs. It's a crash fest. Well not a complete crashfest, but close. One game I have had could not be completed due to crashes. Other games just crash and re-enter and finish or I don't re-enter and post on CivFans. So it's advertised as a game that works above these minimum specs, and it doesn't really work above these minimum specs. I have heard reports of above recommended specs and it not working, but that is not my issue.

The other things I don't like are more aesthetic, UI and gameplay related and don't really merit a call or formal letter.

 

[ash88]

I'm not sure that the BBB or FCC is supposed to be involved just because a product is disappointing.

The BBB would act as an intermediary if you are "disappointed." The FFC would not unless it was something tangible like false advertising.

One of the many roles of the BBB is to give a "face to the masses." There are lots of posts on here with complaints about the gaming industry - specifically the quality of the products they release. The BBB is an established, respected, and powerful organization that deals with issues like product quality and reasonable disappointment in a product. The fact that the game industry has not been pressured this way by its consumers is the fault of the consumers - us. The BBB deals with issues of quality and such very often.

The FCC, on the other hand, would potentially be interested in products that are falsely advertised. For example, a product that was advertised and purchased under the idea that it was multiplayer and yet wasn't multiplayer (for example, the Civ5 DLC packs - like you mentioned) - or if anyone felt they were misled in advertising.

The two organizations have different functions. The function of both of these institutions "fits" with ongoing questions and conversations on this forum.

The closest thing you'd have a legitimate concern is that the company sells DLC civs on the basis that they work in multiplayer when they don't.

I appreciate that you have only this concern - but there are others in the forum who feel cheated and falsely advertised to. We shouldn't discourage those people from taking steps with the FCC.

The BBB is another thing all together because they deal with issues of consumer dissatisfaction and such. Look at it from another angle: the BBB has contacted 2K Games 31 times on behalf of consumers; on behalf of us. 30% of those times 2K Games has come to an agreement that their customer felt was acceptable. If you don't feel that the products sold by 2K Games are under the umbrella of the BBB who are these people that the BBB is representing? What agreement did 2k Games come to with its customers to satisfy them?

For all the stink you'd have to raise, you might get 7 bucks back and they'll simply change the listing to show it's single-player only.

As I said in the initial post: no one person is going to change 2k Games, or the game industry. At best you will get a refund if you spend some time "raising a stink." However, as a group of people we have more power than any one person alone. If 2K games got 100 BBB complaints about Civ5 (keeping in mind that they have only received 30 to date) what kind of impact would that have? If they received 100 complaints about Civ5 how would that impact their future games?

What if some gaming news agency got wind of the fact that 2K Games recieved 100 complaint through the BBB? What if this shed light on the fact that perhaps the game was released to early? What if this gave the response about Civ5 more credibility, and more people contacted 2K as a result?

Lets say then that some other people, in other games started to hold the developers of their games accountable as well? What if software companies started to be held accountable for the things they promised and the stability of their software because if they weren't the people that bought the product actually stood up and said, "this doesn't work - give me my money back." You know - like almost every other industry on earth.

What if because of this releasing buggy software started to hit the bottom lines of companies that slut-it-out before it was ready?

Well, then, my strategically turn-based friends, we start to see a very slow shift in the way that these companies operate. And that's how you have to think of it. Strategically. Long-term. Calculated. Turn Based.

Of course it's easier to sit there and think "no, I'm not going to bother. Too much effort and I will be lucky to get anything in return." I can't fault people for thinking this way - but for those of us who are trail blazers and early adopters I think Civ5 presents an excellent opportunity for us to force them to raise the bar.

imho.

 

[jtb1127]

My largest problem is the ridiculously expensive DLC. I emailed 2k about it and I should call.

 

[Scaramanga]

But I don't want the game to get better - it's the attention from complaining I crave.

Moderator Action: Don't troll, discuss the topic or don't post at all please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Sonereal]

You know what's an actual good way of showing dissatisfaction?

Stop buying Civilization games from Firaxis. All that stuff you posted there? Corporations don't care about that. Sure, nice to have, but it isn't like EAxis is exactly loved by many people but they're still up and running because they at least release games people like.

The only thing that speaks is money so unless you can do something that will tangibly hurt sales (which not of your four options do), this thread is a nonstarter.

There are 200,000 members on this board. Something tells me that given the age of this board, only a fourth of them own CivV and only a fourth of those actually have posted on this board about it.. And those guys are divided between whether the game is bad or good or average. So, at best, you'll get 2000 people who'll "complain" at best.

That's why I love Capitalism. Because it survives complaints but it doesn't survive people not buying. The only way you can show dissatisfaction is through not buying games from 2k Games. Only that is "super effective" at anything. The combined 200k members of this forum could all get on TONIGHT and post how much we hate features of the game but unless you can stop 200k people from buying the game (which you won't), it doesn't matter. Money talks louder than words in this case.

 

[zerotwo]

Hm. Good information. Thanks, I will use some of this tomorrow, I've got some time to burn and I'd love to get my money back for this.

 

[Sonereal]

Hm. Good information. Thanks, I will use some of this tomorrow, I've got some time to burn and I'd love to get my money back for this.

Except of course all the money you're spending on the power to use your phone and internet to make the calls and emails of course. In the end, even complaining costs money. Send a letter? Costs money. Make a call? Costs money. Send an email? Costs money. You'd end up breaking even in the end if you do somehow get a refund for a PC game (fat chance in this country). Returning console games? Easy. Returning a PC game to Wal-Mart (at least out here)? Good luck. And Gamestop just tries to rip people off.

Which is why the best course of action is simply not buying anymore games. Not doing something is free.

 

[ash88]

You know what's an actual good way of showing dissatisfaction? Stop buying Civilization games from Firaxis.

I agree with you completely. In my second post in the thread I go into this.

Companies only care about money - I completely agree. However, these solutions do hurt the bottom line.

How? As I mentioned no one is going to change the world by taking some action like I detail above. However, as a group of people complaining we start to have more power because we have the potential to hurt the companies bottom line.

There is a reason why companies want to keep their clients happy - it isn't for a warm fuzzy feeling at the end of the day. It's because when customers, like us, start to get frustrated with a company, and when we organize and make our displeasure known, then companies are hurt - on the bottom line.

If this wasn't the case then there would never be any customer service departments. And I'm sure that we can all think of companies we avoid because "they suck." Fact is word of mouth advertising is the most effective advertising there is - except it doesn't work if everyone sits around saying things like, "nothing anyone can do - so lets all continue to swallow what they feed us."

So, to reiterate again - I agree with you - Companies don't listen unless they see it on the bottom line. So if you are inclined then you can start to get thier attention. The only way it can be done to speak together along a powerful channel. Otherwise you will get thrown another bone until the next disappointment is released.

 

[Skwink]

So if I buy a new Ford F 150, and it turns out it wasn't as cool as I thought it was, I should contact the BBB about Ford?

 

[ash88]

So if I buy a new Ford F 150, and it turns out it wasn't as cool as I thought it was, I should contact the BBB about Ford?

Actually no...

If you buy a new Ford F 150 and it doesn't work properly, or doesn't live up to your expectations of the quality of a Ford truck for any reason... say it stalls, or it conks out, or it's too noisey... then you should contact Ford. You are doing them a favor in doing so.

If Ford tells you to go fly a kite, then you can contact the BBB.

 

[cman2010]

So if I buy a new Ford F 150, and it turns out it wasn't as cool as I thought it was, I should contact the BBB about Ford?

exactly Im no fan of civ 5 as many here can tell you but I dont think they should have to give me my money back for the game thats just crazy.

 

[Sonereal]

It hurts their bottom line, yes. A lot of things hurts a gaming company's bottom line but there having been bigger anti-game storms than the ones hurt. EE3 comes to mind and that was huge enough that it killed the game outright.

However, it comes to a point where filing complaints does absolutely nothing. The people who started the ultra-huge protest Steam group about MW2's lack of dedicated servers, for instance, was MUCH larger than the anti-Civ5 group's here yet those players ended up hurting their own cause by continuing to buy Call of Duty games (and ironically, MW2).

After all, this isn't like people complaining about Ubisoft's DRM that got so big that Ubisoft ending up dropping DRM because of the near universal hate for it. There isn't universal hate for CivV. Hate for parts of the game (and I don't mean dislike, I mean right out hate) like diplomacy ended up with Firaxis going back and making diplomacy more "opaque" than they originally planned for it to be.

Complaining about features in the game and then stop buying the games if the next games in the series keep the feature is better than straight out messing with the company through the BBB and FCC.

*Sorry if this post is...disjointed. I'm tired.

 

[ash88]

Complaining about features in the game and then stop buying the games if the next games in the series keep the feature is better than straight out messing with the company through the BBB and FCC.

*Sorry if this post is...disjointed. I'm tired.

You and I are saying the same thing. We are both saying that you should complain to the company (I think). The only difference is that if I was complaining I would then take it to the next step, which is the BBB (unless you can think of a better next step). But again, I agree with you - stop buying games from companies that don't respect their customers enough to release a finished game.

The beautiful thing with starting to involve the BBB is that you can look at other consumers examples, and other companies ratings and stop buying from the companies with low scores and bad impressions. You can help the rest of us start to deal with these companies in this (rather odd) industry of software development by lodging your dissatisfaction with the BBB.

Aside from all that - lodging a complaint with the BBB doesn't cost a dime. It probably takes less then 1/2 hour of time though. So if that's a cost a person isn't willing to pay for their dissatisfaction then they aren't dissatisfied enough However, at some point in your life some company will really let you down. Maybe in another industry. If thats the case you don't need to feel powerless - just contact the company and then the BBB. It really is a painless procedure, and at least 30% of consumers received a satisfactory answer from 2K.... so at least some people think its worthwhile.

Cheers

 

[Quothz]

Step 4) Contact the FCC (even if you live outside the US!)

While the Federal Communications Commission may sound like a good place to vent, what with the whole "communications" thing, I suspect you may mean the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC handles complaints about false advertising, consumer fraud, and suchlike. The FCC makes sure broadcasters announce their call signs and don't put boobies on TV. The FCC has approximately as much to do with Civ as the International Joint Commission on Fabric Dyes, assuming there is such a thing.*

In my opinion, complaints to the BBB are appropriate. Unless you feel Firaxis is violating federal regulations, however, please don't waste my tax dollars with FTC complaints. Or FCC complaints.

* Of course there is.