Most useless UB other than Dun
- Thread starter dgonaz
- Start date
Ecofarm
Deity
CR3 trebs crunch grens. CR3 cannons (you can get steel without economics) crunch everything. Also, you can upgrade CR3 trebs to cannons. I like to do both. If you need to upgrade them to arty, you didn't build enough in the first place.
CR3 = -75% (total) to opponent base str. A gren becomes a 3. A rifle becomes a 3.5. They are not even the equivalent of longbows against CR3. An infantry becomes a 5.
You can see how 8s and 12s crunch them. You can use archers to get the kills.
IF you are spain and finish engineering, the only thing you should build for a few hundred years are cits and trebs and cannons.
As a quickspeed 3-city conquest player (MP except for strat generation), I find little use for + trade routes.
CR3 = -75% (total) to opponent base str. A gren becomes a 3. A rifle becomes a 3.5. They are not even the equivalent of longbows against CR3. An infantry becomes a 5.
You can see how 8s and 12s crunch them. You can use archers to get the kills.
IF you are spain and finish engineering, the only thing you should build for a few hundred years are cits and trebs and cannons.
As a quickspeed 3-city conquest player (MP except for strat generation), I find little use for + trade routes.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
Funny how I disagree at most of you... I pretty well like the Dun, especially as I often settle on hills (for protection, +1 
if we're talking plains), and Guerilla 3 straight out of the box with a barraks and Vassalage or Theocracy is really helpful in these situations, making the city very easy to defend, allowing more units for attack. Combined with the Celts' Charismatic trait for +
(They are Chm, aren't they?), this is actually a decent UB.
Shale Plants are okay. Not revolutionary, but okay. I played a game as Japan where I didn't have coal and had to have a monster production in my 3 cities to even catch up to Stalin or Willems numbers. Now Stalin is dead.
... Citadels are pretty good aswell. I like the 10xp Trebs you can spit out straight away, the building is relatively cheap with stone, and the tech is a must anyways.
I often rate the UBs lower the later they arrive. When Malls arrive, if the game is not already settled, it normally won't make the big difference to me if I get +20%
... Duh...
if we're talking plains), and Guerilla 3 straight out of the box with a barraks and Vassalage or Theocracy is really helpful in these situations, making the city very easy to defend, allowing more units for attack. Combined with the Celts' Charismatic trait for + (They are Chm, aren't they?), this is actually a decent UB.Shale Plants are okay. Not revolutionary, but okay. I played a game as Japan where I didn't have coal and had to have a monster production in my 3 cities to even catch up to Stalin or Willems numbers. Now Stalin is dead.
... Citadels are pretty good aswell. I like the 10xp Trebs you can spit out straight away, the building is relatively cheap with stone, and the tech is a must anyways.
I often rate the UBs lower the later they arrive. When Malls arrive, if the game is not already settled, it normally won't make the big difference to me if I get +20%
... Duh...
seasnake said:
Isn't that a nerf??? because Cannon require the Steel tech and the Steel Tech requires Chemistry lol. Artillery is actually a good tech for them to be obsolete because most people playing Spain tend to ignore Economics untill the very last moment they need them.
modzso said:
Try playing a Specialist Economy, Especially with Augustus with his Industrious Trait aim for wonders like Pathenon, Pyramids and Great Library.
As for th Dun... Try beelining for Feudalism with the Oracle, And rush someone. Your Guerilla III Longbows will be like Mounted units because of the withdrawal chance. With unrestricted leaders try a Protective leaderof the Celts, Those longbows will be nasty...
Shale Plant unique bonus is basically you don't need coal in order for them produce power... but I don't see myself ever playing peaceful with Toku so the chance of me not having coal is low... it might help with unrestricted leaders.
I generally have one or two major Production Cities used for Military Production (depending on empire size) so I Only have to build the Citadel once so I personally find very useful to have highly promoted Siege units.
I sat down and wrote a long, long (long) post about the math behind how bad the Shale Plant is, before I realized that nobody wants to read that (including me 
) Suffice to say that my production cities are always fighting health, and as such I can only tweak the numbers to make the Shale Plant generate +0.8 in the best possible case (Sigh, Emancipation always sets in too soon) for my "Football Field of Doom with Rivers" production cities. I guess it's just a consolation prize if you miss the Three Gorges Dam *shrug*.
I understand that the Dun has its uses, but the gleeful LACK of synergy with the Celtic UU just rubs me the wrong way. Every time I build a Gallic Warrior from a city with a Dun I can hear Sid laughing at me.
I also dislike UBs that go obsolete early, especially since they tend to be accompanied by an early UU. I know, I know. Getting an early leg up is important, but I hate clicking on a tech and saying, "OK. After this, we will cease to be special in any way." Who knows. Maybe I'm weird.
(The Totem Pole is sweet, though. It goes obsolete about the time I'm done with it anyways.)
) Suffice to say that my production cities are always fighting health, and as such I can only tweak the numbers to make the Shale Plant generate +0.8 in the best possible case (Sigh, Emancipation always sets in too soon) for my "Football Field of Doom with Rivers" production cities. I guess it's just a consolation prize if you miss the Three Gorges Dam *shrug*.I understand that the Dun has its uses, but the gleeful LACK of synergy with the Celtic UU just rubs me the wrong way. Every time I build a Gallic Warrior from a city with a Dun I can hear Sid laughing at me.
I also dislike UBs that go obsolete early, especially since they tend to be accompanied by an early UU. I know, I know. Getting an early leg up is important, but I hate clicking on a tech and saying, "OK. After this, we will cease to be special in any way." Who knows. Maybe I'm weird.
(The Totem Pole is sweet, though. It goes obsolete about the time I'm done with it anyways.)
Peng Qi
Emperor
One 75% withdraw Gallic Warrior is not useless, either.
...course, that has nothing to do with the Dun. It's just your consolation prize for having the Dun, haha. 
The german factory comes so late in the game, most of my marathon/large games wont see one.
Makes it near-useless to me.
On that note, the Dutch UB is extremly powerful, only if you play that far, which makes it useless to me, as i seldom see the industrial age.
Others may get more out of it, i dont.
Other than that, the Viking trading post is only really relevant at certain map types, with enough coastal cities, so it depends on your starting location as well. If you start inland, its useless to the max.
Also the greek UB is less than super to me, because by the time i get to it, i usually have enough happiness anyways, the culture in my mainland is worthless, and its too expensive to just zerg it at the borders which get courthouses first.
I highly favour the Citadel (castles give +1 trade routes, thats hard cash) it also makes trebuchets with CRIII, which, in turn, own.
Hard.
In contrast to this, the ger is probably one of the worst buildings to have.
It does not confer any more upgrades that a normal stables would (alone and with barracks) since you go either from
2 -> 4 xp (from 1 to 2 upgrades with no barracks)
or
5 -> 7 xp (2 upgrades with barracks)
in comparison with a stable.
+2 xp is nice, but another promotion would have made this useful.
The difference in combat effectiveness between a 2 and a 4 XP keshik is the same as a 5 and a 7 XP Keshik, zero.
Therefor i deem the Ger the most useless UB next to the Dun.
No, make that THE most useless, since the Dun confers a promotion instead of xp, AND is a prerequisite to castles (commerce).
Makes it near-useless to me.
On that note, the Dutch UB is extremly powerful, only if you play that far, which makes it useless to me, as i seldom see the industrial age.
Others may get more out of it, i dont.
Other than that, the Viking trading post is only really relevant at certain map types, with enough coastal cities, so it depends on your starting location as well. If you start inland, its useless to the max.
Also the greek UB is less than super to me, because by the time i get to it, i usually have enough happiness anyways, the culture in my mainland is worthless, and its too expensive to just zerg it at the borders which get courthouses first.
I highly favour the Citadel (castles give +1 trade routes, thats hard cash) it also makes trebuchets with CRIII, which, in turn, own.
Hard.
In contrast to this, the ger is probably one of the worst buildings to have.
It does not confer any more upgrades that a normal stables would (alone and with barracks) since you go either from
2 -> 4 xp (from 1 to 2 upgrades with no barracks)
or
5 -> 7 xp (2 upgrades with barracks)
in comparison with a stable.
+2 xp is nice, but another promotion would have made this useful.
The difference in combat effectiveness between a 2 and a 4 XP keshik is the same as a 5 and a 7 XP Keshik, zero.
Therefor i deem the Ger the most useless UB next to the Dun.
No, make that THE most useless, since the Dun confers a promotion instead of xp, AND is a prerequisite to castles (commerce).
onedreamer
Dragon
You are undervaluing the bonus of Madrassa in the +2 priest specialists, in an age where if you don't have a religion or a wonder there is no way you can produce Priest GPP in order to spawn a Great Prophet that will help you found a religion. The Obelisk is even better at this, as it is even earlier.
I think the most useless UB is the Garden, and that Odeon and Hippodrome should switch the building they substitute for exceptionally evident reasons (Odeon = Theatre and Hippodrome = Coliseum, not the other way around).
onedreamer
Dragon
The wise man said: 2 or more GP farms work better than just one.
JKWSN
Enlightened Despot
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Messages
- 68
The Forum adds a new dimension to play Rome with - although I'm not quite sure which GPPs it adds 25% to when I run different specialists.
The water based UBs tend to be weak IMO, as I play with low seas and most of my cities are inland. The Feitoria actually makes a lackluster building worthwhile though. Foreign Civs run Mercantalism too often for my tastes.
The water based UBs tend to be weak IMO, as I play with low seas and most of my cities are inland. The Feitoria actually makes a lackluster building worthwhile though. Foreign Civs run Mercantalism too often for my tastes.
Also what makes a UB truly good is one fact:
If it is a building i would have built anyways.
Building a UB just for sake of itself is mediocre at best, but having a bulding that will be in every damn city of mine (for example a grocer, or barracks), which gives some additional benefit.... thats outright great.
Thats what makes the Ethiopean Stehle (or the Egyptian Monument) so awesome:
Rush Stonehenge, get one UB in every city for free!
If it is a building i would have built anyways.
Building a UB just for sake of itself is mediocre at best, but having a bulding that will be in every damn city of mine (for example a grocer, or barracks), which gives some additional benefit.... thats outright great.
Thats what makes the Ethiopean Stehle (or the Egyptian Monument) so awesome:
Rush Stonehenge, get one UB in every city for free!
Too bad Romans don't have philosophical leader. Although if unrestricted leaders it could make sense.
Spearthrower
Thrower of spears
But the point is that even though they aren't Philosophical, this building makes them practically have that trait!!
The forum is immense.... one of the strongest in my opinion.... but yes, with Unrestricted Leaders it becomes overpowered!!!
But the point is that even though they aren't Philosophical, this building makes them practically have that trait!!
The forum is immense.... one of the strongest in my opinion.... but yes, with Unrestricted Leaders it becomes overpowered!!!
Hmm, I'll give it a try, but while playing with romans I'm usually busy controlling my legions
Elros
Paranoid Android
I can't stand the Shale Plant. Generally my strategy involves grabbing the TGD either through beeline or GE to avoid the unhealthiness, so it's completely worthless to me.
Hmm, I'll give it a try, but while playing with romans I'm usually busy controlling my legions
That's perfect with the Specialist economy ain't it? You don't have to use the Science slider, just conquer until you Prats can be countered while your Great People are either settled to give you beakers or bulb for tech you can use as trade fodder
Dennis_Moore
Unholy Roman
The way I see it the Obelisk is most useful if you get a flood plain start for the early growth (which is of course historically accurate).
hecubus
General Specific
On the heels of my last game...I'd like to nominate the Mausoleum. How many play Indian civs as warmongers? How often are you going to build Jails in the first place? How valuable is a little more espionage? Ehhh.
petey
Prince
I liked the Viking one when Warlords first came out, because you could get the extra movement point right off the bat and have some super fast ships tearing around. Once they made it so that you needed 5xps for that, though, it became a waste. The fact that it used to be good and then they nerfed it in a patch moves it to the top of the useless list for me.
Similar threads
