MP12 - Winter Campaign

Hi,

MeteorPunch said:
Also, does anyone know what causes barbarian Axemen to appear? I've heard 3 different things: either when anyone discovers bronze working, when you discover bronze working, or when you have bronze or iron connected.
It's definately not when you have copper or iron connected, because I've seen barb axemen appear before I have the resources connected.
I also think it's not when you discover bronze working, as I seem to remember I got axemen before I had discovered the tech - but I'm only 90% sure on that.

-Kylearan
 
Thanks, Kylearan. I'm gonna assume it's when any civ discovers BW. In that case we need archers. 2-3 of them fortified on that spot in the woods should stop the barbs.
 
The reason I started on a settler on size one, was because of the Goldmine. I wanted to work that as fast as possible, because of the 7 commerce it brings. It has no food, so the city wouldn't grow anyway if it was indeed working the gold, therefore might as well start on a settler which we will need. Let our capitol with barracks build warriors to protect our cities. So the choice was on one hand: allmost doubling the early science output and stalling the growth of bearfall, for the moment. On the other hand, we could grow the city while building warriors and barracks and wait with the gold for slower research. I am standing on research over growth at least untill the pasture east of bearfall is done.

Anyway, I am glad for the discussion. The start of a game like this is all about balancing commerce, growth, production and expansion.

On the Bronze Working issue, I agree that slavery and chopping alone isn't that good, but I think I'm a bit of a gambler. I'd like to throw the dice for some copper on our island. Could change our view on where to put our third city too.

Sorry about naming the save wrongly, it will be corrected in the future :)
 
OK, I guess I'm up :O Lots of interesting little decisions. I'll take a look sometime today.
 
OK, here is my 15 turns.

EOT 2000BC (Turn 0): I see that the barbarians have archer already:eek:
View attachment 108078

I guess I have a decision to make regarding the research path - Bronze Working, Pottery or even Archery. After some consideration, I decided to stick with BW and try to get it researched within my turns. The initial holdup on other techs does hurt a bit, and it's a risky maneuver, but I think the rewards of chop-rushing and possible location of bronze nearby outweigh its downsides if we can do it quickly enough.

Since we're alone on this continent, we should try to make use of what resources it has ASAP and focus on infrastructure whilst trying to meet other civs. That means we should go for at least 6-7 cities or so right here and try to boost research, since early military is somewhat less crucial other than to defend against barbs. In order to do that, choprushing is crucial. Pottery can wait until the next cycle, and in the meantime our warriors will have a job to do. If we fill up this continent and/or set up enough units on key locations to uncover the fog, we won't even have to worry too much about barbs on our land anyway.

So I leave the research as it is but temporarily boost science to 100%, netting -1 gold per turn. I temporarily switch the 2nd city from building settlers to barracks, to let it grow a little bit while the gold is still being mined by the worker. On principle, though, it's not a bad idea to stunt growth of cities in the early going if one is trying to expand one's territory, at least until enough cottages are built to run them profitably.

EOT we get a look at the largest civ in the world and find that we're smack in the middle:
View attachment 108080

Turn 1: Barracks completed in Capital. Capital grows to size 3. Start warrior, due in 4 turns.

Turn 2: :hammer:

Turn 3 EOT: Worker completes the gold mine :D, I switch over to work that tile, which means the city growth is stalled. Thus I switch over to settler building.

Turn 4: I move the worker over to the pasture currently outside Bearfall's cultural borders, which is set to expand next turn and this way I'll be able to work the pasture just in time.

Turn 5: Bearfall's culture expands. Begin working pasture. Warrior #1 completed in capital. I move him out eastwards to clear the fog and scout for barbs. Start 1 more warrior in capital, due in 4 turns.

Turn 6: :hammer:

EOT 6: Someone founded Judaism:eek:

Turn 7: :hammer:

Turn 8: Persepolis grows to size 4.

Turn 9: Warrior #2 completed. I move him out to clear some more fog. Begin worker in capital, due in 8 turns. We'll have some work to do once BW completes and pottery is on the way.

Turn 10: Worker completes pasture EOT. I switch over to work that tile, for now.

Turn 11: I move worker to the forest tile just outside of Bearfall's cultural boundaries. BW is due to complete in 1 turn so it's perfect timing to chop rush next turn.

Turn 12: BW discovered :D, NO Copper nearby!:( I get started on Pottery due in 10 turns. Worker begins chopping to help rush Bearfall's settler. Afterwards I switch the city's working tile back over to the gold mine to cut Pottery's research time to 7.

Turn 13-15: :hammer:

And that's it. I didn't found any new cities but we're well on our way. The 2 warriors confirm that there is no immediate danger of barbarians (I've fortified them on forests and hills respectively for now). Here's my attempt at a dotmap of our current situation:
View attachment 108092

As mentioned before, we have no copper on our continent so we just have to work with what we've got. The red dots indicate my opinion on where our next cities should be placed. We can squeeze in at least 7 cities this way, with minimal overlap, and in position to make use of ALL of our currently known resources. Since our initial land mass is small we should make use of as much of it as possible. Pottery is due in 4, with worker #2 due a couple turns sooner. I'd begin churning out settlers/additional workers at this point to expand, and begin building cottages while keeping watch for barbs.
View attachment 108093

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon - Just played
ThERat - UP NOW (15)
DeceasedHorse - On deck
- open spot
(alternate) Robo Mike
 
ok got it, tonight...

oh dear, we got no copper, let's hope we have at least iron. Anyway, with this sort of start it is best to try and get our economy up and running. cottages will really help in the long run and of course, we should try and get to optics soonish so we can meet others

by the way, I think we could have other city placements near our capital
shift the southern red dot 2 tiles NE, and the other north between gems and cow...what do you all think?
 
Great turnset. Agree with you ThERat, that we could fit two cities east of Perso. Both coastal, one by cattle gems, one in range of the sugar. And there could perhaps be room for another city east and between Our two current cities as well.


Damn. No copper...
 
Okay I think I'm confident now so put me in the queue.

Do we plan to get any religions or are we skipping that option?

I don't think there will be any barbs on our island if we have visual. And being alone is good... we won't be bothered by any expanding AI civs for a while... I hope.
 
On one side, being alone is good in the way you mentioned, but trading with another civ would gain us alot as well. Let's send out some exploring ships soon:)
 
Yeah, but AI is bound to settle on any land available, so we might need to cover our isle asap and flip any cities that attempt to pop up. This is Monarch so I presume the coastal AI's will have one galley soon.
 
Yeah, I think there are more important things to worry about right now than religion..since we're alone we can't immediately benefit from getting and spreading an early religion around other civs, and by the time we meet someone we'd be considered heathens etc. I say focus on initial expansion (we can fit minimum 7, probably 8 or even 9 cities on this continent alone) and economy with an army of workers. Not being able to trade around techs early hurts, but we have to compensate by trying to be self-sufficient. There's always the chance that the land NE and/or SW from our continent harbors the teaming of life so going seabound should be in our plan soonish as well. Good luck :D
 
save

Pre-Turn
we know nobody, have 2 cities and need to expand
one settler seems to get sped up by a forest chop
increas science to 100%

1. 1600BC
1st chop is done, settler down to 16

2. 1575BC
we get another worker, that will chop some forest as well

3. 1550BC
both workers are chopping now

IT pottery is in -> go for sailing next, we need lighthouses and galley anyway

4. 1525BC
chop chop

5. 1500BC
we have another warrior and go for settler in the capital, the mousepointer locks up and I need to restart the computer

6. 1475BC
chop done in the capital,

7. 1450BC
zzz

8. 1425BC
settler done in bearfall, set it for growth and granary

9. 1400BC
settler going for it's destination

10. 1375BC
settler moving up

11. 1350BC
found Pasergadae in the north, income drops to -4gpt at 100%

12. 1325BC
we get another settler, go for granary in capital as well
MM so we get granary in 3 and growth in 4
research drops to 90%

13. 1300BC
Bearfall now has a granary

14. 1275BC
found Susa, MM again to optimize income and shields

15. 1250BC
Persepolis finishes the granary, will grow next turn, so set on warrior

next turn sailing comes in, I would swap the cities to lighthouse, let them grow and go for more settler after that
we also need more workers of course and build a galley to sail around and find more nice land
I also started on cottages, they are mighty powerful in the long run

we should go for either archery or iron working next

mp121250.jpg
 
for next player:

- lower science to 80%.
- switch Persepolis to a worker (we need cottages ASAP, there are 2 nice grassland spots by Susa).
- next tech? I think archery then alphabet.

everyone:

- make sure to not clear all our forests! we will need production someday.
- usually I'm a grassland-cottage, plains-farms player...but we have almost all plains. What should we do here to have hope of competing in tech?

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
ThERat - Just played
DeceasedHorse - up (play 15)
Robo Mike - on deck, rejoined (15)
 
MeteorPunch said:
usually I'm a grassland-cottage, plains-farms player...but we have almost all plains. What should we do here to have hope of competing in tech?
Possibly...
1. mine the gems (req's iron working to get rid of evil trees)
2. expand quickly on the right side and build cottages on grassland riverbank squares
3. expand on the right side and mine gold

EDIT: that being said due to the lack of grassland we may need to deforest any and all grasslands for towns.
 
MP, I would wait a turn for setting our capital to worker, let it grow to 5 first, the worker will surely be faster. I would actually let it build a galley first

and for the tech I would go iron working since we need it to connect the gems and we must know whether we have iron on our Island, then maybe alphabet
 
Robo Mike said:
Possibly...
1. mine the gems (req's iron working to get rid of evil trees)
yep definitely, but 1 mine will not support an empire.:mischief:
Robo Mike said:
2. expand quickly on the right side and build cottages on grassland riverbank squares
3. expand on the right side and mine gold
Expanding to the right side would be nice, and definitely in the future, but I think anymore expansion will kill our current economy.

ThERat said:
MP, I would wait a turn for setting our capital to worker, let it grow to 5 first, the worker will surely be faster. I would actually let it build a galley first
didn't realize it was 1 turn for growth. wait 1 turn, then start on worker.
ThERat said:
and for the tech I would go iron working since we need it to connect the gems and we must know whether we have iron on our Island, then maybe alphabet
okay how about this: archery->Iron working. archery will be discovered very fast and will keep us safe while we wait for iron (which will take awhile).
 
Yeah it won't support our empire but a couple of extra $$ a turn will be okay for our tiny little nation for now, before we expand to the right or the "mainland".
 
I think there are more pressing concerns atm for the new cities than granaries. Keeping initial cities small while we're still expanding helps minimize maintenance costs.

Definitely get more workers I say, and deforest/cottage up the grassland tiles by the river, then normal grassland tiles asap. Also deforest any hills probably and mine them. We could also go for lighthouses soonish in the coastal cities. We still have half of the continent left to settle, maybe go for the gold mine to the right first..not sure about this, it's a judgment call.

Archery sounds fine as our next tech, and then..hmm, either iron working or writing (do we already have writing? Don't think so)..

While we're expanding the initial commerce will have to suffer somewhat so mining the gems/gold/cottages are very important while we temporarily lower the research to 70 or maybe even 60%.

Edit: Oh yeah, and we should move the warriors/scouts eastwards to clear the fog. We don't have to worry about barbs or enemy civs in our cities' immediate vicinities right now anyway..and as for deforestation, I'd leave the plains alone for now unless maybe they're right by a river..the extra health/production helps.
 
Preturn: No changes

Turn 1: Sailing comes in, start on Archery. Switch the capital to settler, and re-arange tiles to get our worker in 6 turns instead of 7. The lose in commerce forces me to drop to 70% research, archery due in 6.

T2: Nothing

T3: Ditto

T4: Start a forest chop/cottage build near the capital.

T5: Nada mucho.

T6: Yup

T7: Archery finishes, start on Iron Working as ordered. Our veteran scout runs into a barb archer, will probably die next turn . Persepolis finishes worker, starts on Archer which should be done next turn when the worker finishes the forest chop.

IBT: Barb archer does indeed take out our scout.

Turn 8: Persepolis build an archer of our own and he is immediately sent east. Shave six turns off of Iron Working research in exchange for getting a settler built in the capital in 11 turns instead of 10. Science at 80%.

Turn 9: Susa grows, switched to worker.

Turn 10; Bearfall finishes barracks, starts on Archer.

T11: Our other scout locates the hated barb archers one square west of the eastern gold hill and hightails it out of there

T12: Pasagrade reaches size 2, but I decide to let it finish its granary as it can do it in only 3 more turns.

T13: Our other scout gets wacked. Oooops.

Turn 14: Bearfall finishes its chop-assisted Archer, and starts on a galley with plenty of left-over forest shields to help out.

Turn 15: Pasagrade builds Granary, starts on worker (definitely vetoable). Persepolis finishes settler, starts on archer (ditto, but I figure we might want to let the city grow to size six, its current happiness max, before building another worker or settler). I wouldn’t chop any more of the forests around Bear Landing, as it currently is enjoying a +1 health bonus for the three it has left; we have a worker chopping down the last one outside its borders. Settler was left unmoved. Ironworking due in 9 turns @ +1 gpt and current citizen allocation. We have a combat one archer moving through the eastern forests and a city defender archer in Bear Landing. We have a worker building a cottage next to Susa, a couple of others near the capital building more cottages in place of the forests they cut down, and another east of Bear Landing cutting another down to get the galley built.
 
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