Mughal Leak

[Sagax]

does anyone know where i can find the civics/traditions or more details on them ?

Most likely all of that will be officially revealed on Tuesday US time anyway.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Not sure if this got posted here. He plays as the Mughals

 

[Seek]

No one likes it.

I do! I actually am not crazy about the current trend that dictates that all numbers must be "positive" and there can't be actual trade offs, only opportunity costs.. But I'm (somewhat) an Old

does anyone know where i can find the civics/traditions or more details on them ?

This is what I have (missing two Civics):
UA: Paradise of Nations: +75% Gold from all sources. -25% for all other yields.
UB: Stepwell: +2 Gold. +2 Food for each adjacent Farm. Must be placed on flat terrain, and cannot be placed next to another Stepwell.
UMU: Sepoy: Unique Infantry unit. Can make a bombard ranged attack.
UCU: Zamindar: Unique Settler unit. +1 Population on new Settlements.
AW: Red Fort: +4 Gold. Acts as a Fortified district. +50 HP to this and all City Centers. Must be builds adjacent to an urban district.
Traditions: Jins-i Kamil: +1 Food and Gold on Farms for each adjacent Plantation, and on Plantation for each adjacent Farm.
Mayurasana: 25% Gold towards purchasing.
Civic Effects: +1 Gold on Farms.
May purchase Wonders with Gold.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

There is a caveat. The wonder buying ability 4 civics deep in the Mughal tree. The main reason you'd want it is to buy up the wonders that hold artifacts like Hermitage and Palacio, as well as the Worlds Fair. But in order to be competetive in the culture victory, you need to rush Natural History and Hegemony, not plow culture into the Mughal civics.

Elsewise, you could use it to buy the Manhattan Project.

After watching Pravus, the Mughals are just generally good. They can buy units and go for a military victory. They can buy railroads and factories and establish World Banks for Economic. And they can buy Museums and Explorers for Cultural.

 

[UWHabs]

There is a caveat. The wonder buying ability 4 civics deep in the Mughal tree. The main reason you'd want it is to buy up the wonders that hold artifacts like Hermitage and Palacio, as well as the Worlds Fair. But in order to be competetive in the culture victory, you need to rush Natural History and Hegemony, not plow culture into the Mughal civics.

Elsewise, you could use it to buy the Manhattan Project.

After watching Pravus, the Mughals are just generally good. They can buy units and go for a military victory. They can buy railroads and factories and establish World Banks for Economic. And they can buy Museums and Explorers for Cultural.

The fact that they're modern era limits the crazy reach a little. Like if you gave that ability in the ancient era, it would be lunacy (would be more like civ 6 babylon how annoying they get). But yeah, late game the impact of stealing a wonder with gold isn't crazy. I mean, it's not any more OP than in earlier civ games someone using a GE to auto-complete a wonder.

In any event, the more civs that break from the default setup, the more interesting things are.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Yep, they are Civ 6 Mali with Stepwells.

I'm curious about their unique civics and traditions.

side note but stepwell is a really bad choice for mughal infrastructure. a rework of this civ might be my first mod download in civ 7 because step wells couldn’t be more unrelated to the mughals. mughal garden/courtyard/paradises/forts would’ve made WAY more sense

 

[8housesofelixir]

side note but stepwell is a really bad choice for mughal infrastructure. a rework of this civ might be my first mod download in civ 7 because step wells couldn’t be more unrelated to the mughals. mughal garden/courtyard/paradises/forts would’ve made WAY more sense

I suspect the Stepwell might have been the UI for a different early Indian civ (Maurya? Gupta?) during the development, and only assigned to the Mughals much later, since a similar situation might have happened with the Shi Dafu unique great people.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I suspect the Stepwell might have been the UI for a different early Indian civ (Maurya? Gupta?) during the development, and only assigned to the Mughals much later, since a similar situation might have happened with the Shi Dafu unique great people.

just another place where the rushed development seems to be showing through

i think there’s other evidence that they may have considered the gupta—so perhaps that’s where it’s from. would’ve even made sense for the chola.

either way ridiculous that an infrastructure primarily associated with temples is being used for the muslim empire that’s far more well known for garden and fort building.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Stepwells are clearly not a mistake, because they were actively built during Mughal rule and Mughal gardens inspired by stepwells. On the other hand, it's not the best thing to represent Mughal rule.

I think what we'll have here is some kind of mix between stepwells and Mughal gardens - they are going to be gardens by appearance, but stepwells by name and gameplay relation to food.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Stepwells are clearly not a mistake, because they were actively built during Mughal rule and Mughal gardens inspired by stepwells. On the other hand, it's not the best thing to represent Mughal rule.

I think what we'll have here is some kind of mix between stepwells and Mughal gardens - they are going to be gardens by appearance, but stepwells by name and gameplay relation to food.

built during mughal rule is obvious—the population of the mughal empire was still at least a plurality hindu, and temples were still constructed under most of the emperors. Mughal gardens are primarily inspired by islamic gardens, ancient persian paradise gardens and similar persian/islamic architecture. their only similarity to stepwells is visual and the emphasis on water.

its obviously not a mistake in the sense they didn’t mean to do it, but it is a mistake in the sense that it was ostensibly the wrong choice.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

The fact that they're modern era limits the crazy reach a little. Like if you gave that ability in the ancient era, it would be lunacy (would be more like civ 6 babylon how annoying they get). But yeah, late game the impact of stealing a wonder with gold isn't crazy. I mean, it's not any more OP than in earlier civ games someone using a GE to auto-complete a wonder.

In any event, the more civs that break from the default setup, the more interesting things are.

Note that all victory conditions are classed as projects and not wonders. So the ability to buy wonders is limited (but always welcomed...).

But I think that of all the 4 victories, Mughal is not really compatible with cultural and science victory. The yield malus make it hard to unlock the key civics and technologies, and culture seems to be kind of a rush to get the relics (and opponents can also buy the explorers, even if they produce less money). Most of the problem is that you need science to unluck the buildings that produce science...

For economic and military you have less a problem, since you can buy the relevant buildings, of staff a new front easily by buying it from nowhere. And economics victory tends to produce gold, which is even more pronounced with the Mughal ability. The only problem they will have will be influence, since it is required to build the world bank, yet it is impacted by the -25% yield...

 

[8housesofelixir]

For economic and military you have less a problem, since you can buy the relevant buildings, of staff a new front easily by buying it from nowhere. And economics victory tends to produce gold, which is even more pronounced with the Mughal ability. The only problem they will have will be influence, since it is required to build the world bank, yet it is impacted by the -25% yield...

Economic victory is kind of a military victory (or "wide" victory) on its own, since the factory resources and related tycoon points can be achieved internally, instead of relying on foreign trade. Which means you can conquer your neighbors and employ what used to be their resources in your factories and win an Econ victory.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Note that all victory conditions are classed as projects and not wonders. So the ability to buy wonders is limited (but always welcomed...).

But I think that of all the 4 victories, Mughal is not really compatible with cultural and science victory. The yield malus make it hard to unlock the key civics and technologies, and culture seems to be kind of a rush to get the relics (and opponents can also buy the explorers, even if they produce less money). Most of the problem is that you need science to unluck the buildings that produce science...

For economic and military you have less a problem, since you can buy the relevant buildings, of staff a new front easily by buying it from nowhere. And economics victory tends to produce gold, which is even more pronounced with the Mughal ability. The only problem they will have will be influence, since it is required to build the world bank, yet it is impacted by the -25% yield...

it is a little weird that culture victories wouldn’t be accessible to such a cultural empire but you can’t say that economic/military doesn’t make sense. in general the malus in the abilities doesn’t make much sense to me because i would generally consider the mughals all-rounders

really hoping one of the modders drops a rework relatively quickly

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

built during mughal rule is obvious—the population of the mughal empire was still at least a plurality hindu, and temples were still constructed under most of the emperors. Mughal gardens are primarily inspired by islamic gardens, ancient persian paradise gardens and similar persian/islamic architecture. their only similarity to stepwells is visual and the emphasis on water.

its obviously not a mistake in the sense they didn’t mean to do it, but it is a mistake in the sense that it was ostensibly the wrong choice.

The only explanation I can think of is they didn’t want to reuse a similar design for the Mughal Garden considering the Persian Gardens is already being used for Antiquity Persia.
That still doesn’t explain the stepwell though other than they wanted something to make them Expansionist and they were found throughout India.

My personal preference would have been a karkhana which could have been a unique quarter which were the manufacturing houses and workshops of artisans and craftsmen. That would have fit into the economic and specialist gameplay in my opinion.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

There is a caveat. The wonder buying ability 4 civics deep in the Mughal tree. The main reason you'd want it is to buy up the wonders that hold artifacts like Hermitage and Palacio, as well as the Worlds Fair. But in order to be competetive in the culture victory, you need to rush Natural History and Hegemony, not plow culture into the Mughal civics.

Elsewise, you could use it to buy the Manhattan Project.

After watching Pravus, the Mughals are just generally good. They can buy units and go for a military victory. They can buy railroads and factories and establish World Banks for Economic. And they can buy Museums and Explorers for Cultural.

did you see he was making like 4000 GPT while the other civer were making like 600 per turn. see pretty op.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

did you see he was making like 4000 GPT while the other civer were making like 600 per turn. see pretty op.

Yes he was producing a lot of gold. The after effect of pursuing the economic victory coupled witht the civ power.

However you can't buy technologies, and you need said technologies to build the science producing buildings. And the fact that you have enough money to buy them does not completly counterbalance the fact that you unlocked them later due to the -25% science yields... Same problem with culture, where you have a late start at uncovering the artefacts...

 

[Sagax]

Ursa casually buying Manhattan Project with Mughal on the 5.8k GPT income. It’s unclear if the listed cost is the project’s full cost or a discounted cost when accounting for the production already poured into it (you can see 4 turns left). But if we go by Civ 6, then it’s the former.

Side observation - who cares about -25% on other yields when you are already reaching those numbers.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The only explanation I can think of is they didn’t want to reuse a similar design for the Mughal Garden considering the Persian Gardens is already being used for Antiquity Persia.
That still doesn’t explain the stepwell though other than they wanted something to make them Expansionist and they were found throughout India.

My personal preference would have been a karkhana which could have been a unique quarter which were the manufacturing houses and workshops of artisans and craftsmen. That would have fit into the economic and specialist gameplay in my opinion.

two gardens being much but two great walls being perfectly fine is stulid then

a fort would’ve been fine too

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I wonder if we're getting the Game Guide today? We already got today's First Look and neither "mughal" or "mughals" or "mughal-india" is active on the website, but it would match with last week's pattern of dropping the Game Guide, then the theme the day after, while leaving room to have it all out by early access.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

Ursa casually buying Manhattan Project with Mughal on the 5.8k GPT income. It’s unclear if the listed cost is the project’s full cost or a discounted cost when accounting for the production already poured into it (you can see 4 turns left). But if we go by Civ 6, then it’s the former.

Side observation - who cares about -25% on other yields when you are already reaching those numbers.

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this is what i am saying. Mughals will be a huge threat and military target because if left unchecked they can simply buy the world. Not sure the AI will be able to make full use but it seems to be an extremely powerful choice.