Multiple trade routes

[SpikeSpiegelJKD]

Trade routes are obviously important for a power democracy, so I'm just wondering how you can maximize trade for a city. I have already seen a thread that says superhighways, rrs, freight, diff civ/continent, etc. generate more trade, but is there any other way to get more?

 

[ElephantU]

I dont have a definitive thread on Trade Routes, but you have the basics already. The fattest TRs I have had have been between my highest-trade-producing city (my SSC/STC) and a large AI city on the same continent with the "Optimal RR route" in effect. I have seen TRs greater than +30 each.

I believe you can use the Delivery Bonus Payment modifiers as a general guide, ignoring the issues of Demand, Commodity Type, and Freight vs Caravan. TRs between your own cities are halved. Airport only matters if you do not have Superhighways.

A "trick" you might want to research is the "Station City" effect; there is a thread somewhere over at Apolyton.Net but I do not have my link list with me now - try the Great Library in the Strategy Forum there. Also look up how to find the optimal RD/RR routes; they are not what you would think most obvious.

 

[funxus]

Originally posted by ElephantU
Airport only matters if you do not have Superhighways.

This is new, I thought that airports mattered if both of the cities had one, and superhighways if the delivering city has one? Maybe I got it from, the not allways so accurate, WarAcademy?

You can also increase trade in one of your cities by building the Colossus and if not in a representative gov, celebrate to increase trade production.

It doesn't happen often, but I remember +50t TRs.

 

[ElephantU]

I built Airports in two cities on the same continent recently and they made no change to my TRs. It is possible that it only works when they are on different continent #s. Somewhere I read that it was realated to Superhighways; perhaps I should qualify my previous comment as "unverified". But it does NOT benefit if you are on the same continent and have SHwys in both cities.

Colossus and Rep or Dem are the only other non-terrain modifications you can make to increase the amount of trade arrows in a particular city. Increasing population only helps for the first 20 citizens, and they have to be working tiles that have at least one trade arrow (ie Forest, Hill, Mtn etc dont help). Roading Grass, Plains and Desert gives you an extra arrow, and Roading over Rivers (Bridging) gives you an extra in addition to the River arrow. Working the ocean tiles gives you two arrows, but you need a Harbor to break even on Food.

 

[Ace]

If both cities have airports and they are on the same continent, you get a +50% modifier applied to your trade route. Thats from the "Official strategy guide". From much more info on airports and trade, look through some of Starlifter's old posts. He has some great stuff on trade.

 

[la fayette]

It is very important to have in mind that, when you deliver a commodity caravan/freight, you get 2 results: One time bonus + continuing trade route.

1) Continuing trade route
(trade that is added to the 'base trade' of your city; 'base trade' = trade arrows provided by your workers; 2 arrows/ocean square, for example)

Each city has 3 slots for commodities offered and 3 slots for commodities demanded. In the early game all slots are open and you can choose which of 3 commodities available in your source city will be transported by your caravan.
On delivery, 2 trade routes are created between your source city and the destination city (which can be either yours or foreign). One trade route represents your caravan (let us say silk that you have built in Rome and delivered to Paris) and the other trade route represents a caravan supposedly built in the destination city and sent to the source city (let us say wine built in Paris and delivered to Rome).
Later on, when slots are blocked, a new trade route will be created only if its value is higher than one of the trade routes already existing in the city (max = 3 trade routes/city; never more)

Very important: The value of a trade route DOES NOT DEPEND UPON THE COMMODITY DELIVERED OR THE DISTANCE between source and destination city. It depends upon the sum of 'Trade in Source City' + 'Trade in Destination City', with a number of modifiers (foreign city, different continent, road, RR, ...).

2) One time bonus
This is the amount of gold that is added to your treasury on delivery of the caravan.

Very important: A NUMBER OF BEAKERS IDENTICAL TO THAT AMOUNT OF GOLD IS ADDED TO YOUR RESEARCH BOX. In other words, you get 2 'One Time Bonuses': one in gold, one in beakers.

Also very important:
The value of the One Time Bonus DEPENDS UPON THE DISTANCE between Source and Destination City (and there is no upper limit, so the farther the better, BUT this can be a lengthy affair: 15 turns for delivery 45 squares away from your source city onboard a caravel, hence the value of LH and Magellan).

Also very important:
The value of the One Time Bonus also DEPENDS UPON WHETHER THE COMMODITY DELIVERED IS DEMANDED by the Destination City.

The most complete and accurate formulas are to be found in samson's thread in Apolyton's GL, but there is a problem with access to Apolyton today, so I can't give you the link now.

 

[Ace]

A trade route should be 10 hexes or more, less than that and you get a zero route. Also, when calculating distance for a long route, remember that the map "wraps around" , so if you go beyond halfway across the map you lose distance! Think traveling around the world. This does not occur going up and down.

 

[JoeP]

Nice title for your post... basics? lol

Originally posted by la fayette
Very important: The value of a trade route DOES NOT DEPEND UPON THE COMMODITY DELIVERED OR THE DISTANCE between source and destination city. It depends upon the sum of 'Trade in Source City' + 'Trade in Destination City', with a number of modifiers (foreign city, different continent, road, RR, ...).

So two cities trading could be just 15 squares from each other, and get a huge value?

 

[woke26]

can a moderator please insert a link here to the poly great library? they have multiple threads about trade routes there.

tq

 

[funxus]

lafayette, I'm sure there have been a lot of testing on this, and something I've found written in many places, but that doesn't seem to work in my game is this:

Later on, when slots are blocked, a new trade route will be created only if its value is higher than one of the trade routes already existing in the city (max = 3 trade routes/city; never more)

I frequently lose fat foreign trade routes to poor domestic routes, and after checking it a few times it has turned out that trademaximizing isn't the problem.

Links:
Great library index #1
ST's GL index #2

 

[Terrapin]

A NUMBER OF BEAKERS IDENTICAL TO THAT AMOUNT OF GOLD IS ADDED TO YOUR RESEARCH BOX.

I was under the impression that you only got beakers for deliveries to foriegn cities. Am I wrong?

 

[funxus]

You always get the same amount in beakers, foreign and domestic trade.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by funxus
lafayette, I'm sure there have been a lot of testing on this, and something I've found written in many places, but that doesn't seem to work in my game is this:

I frequently lose fat foreign trade routes to poor domestic routes, and after checking it a few times it has turned out that trademaximizing isn't the problem.

I've run into this problem too. I think the issue is that the "Bigger Trade Route" is compared BEFORE the modifiers are added, such as Different Civ, Different Continent, RD/RR. So a TR that is from one of your own cities may have more starting trade arrows (VERY likely; figure one arrow per citizen in foreign cities), but when you add the modifications, especially RD/RR modifier if applicable, the modified TR may be greater. The trick I use, when I want to keep foreign-city TRs in my SSC but have my own cities with TRs to the SSC, is to ignore the delivery bonus and change all my workers to entertainers in the city that is sending the caravan to the SSC. When the game compares the base number of trade arrows it will see only one or two in my sending city, which will always be less than a foreign city of 3 or more citizens. So the foreign TR will stick in the SSC, but when I switch the workers back to working terrain my sending city will get a nice fat TR to my SSC. This works best once you have RRed the "optimal" routes between cities and added SuperHighways at both ends.

Ace:
I know the "Official Strategy Guide" says that, but its not true. Test it yourself. Its also not true that TRs are modified by whether the delivery vehicle was caravan or freight, which is also listed in the War Academy. There is some way to get an Airport benefit, but not if you are on the same continent or have SuperHighways. I just tested it again in GOTM29: no dice.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Ace
A trade route should be 10 hexes or more, less than that and you get a zero route. Also, when calculating distance for a long route, remember that the map "wraps around" , so if you go beyond halfway across the map you lose distance! Think traveling around the world. This does not occur going up and down.

I discovered something wierd when the map DOES NOT wrap: the algorithm still uses a wrapping calculation when determining distance and directions. I was in the bottom right corner in GOTM29 and created a Station City which should have given me the RD/RR bonus for all other civs cities on the main continent, but it only worked for those that were about half-way across the map.

I have created TRs between my own cities that are less than 10 hexes apart. The Delivery Bonus is pretty small, but the TR value depends on trade arrows and modifiers, not distance.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by JoeP
Nice title for your post... basics? lol

So two cities trading could be just 15 squares from each other, and get a huge value?

The ongoing Trade Route value can be large if they both have large numbers of trade arrows (or one has an obscene amount, like an SSC) and you build the appropriate modifiers. Early in the game it is best to trade with foreign cities on a different continent. Mid-game, if you can find a foreign city on your own continent (or entice one, like leaving a small city vacant when they come visiting) building an "optimal" RR route to the city and building SuperHighways will give you a pretty good sized TR. Remember, though: TRs between your own cities always take a 50% hit off the top.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by Ace
A trade route should be 10 hexes or more, less than that and you get a zero route.

Sorry Ace, this is not true.
I have developped a combo called 'twin cities' and I can assure you that those cities are much closer than 10 squares (no hexes in civ) and the trade routes are big and fat.
(sorry for the link to my thread = still no access to Apolyton now)

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by woke26
can a moderator please insert a link here to the poly great library? they have multiple threads about trade routes there.

tq

This is the best thread about calculating the Delivery Bonus:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64729

Samson spent a lot of time verifying this data; note that the order that you apply the modifiers is important, as is the old-fashioned number rounding.

I cannot find a similar definitive thread regarding ongoing Trade Routes, but the basic formula is:

(T1+T2+4)/8

T1 and T2 are "base trade", before adding existing Trade Routes.

And the relevant modifiers are:
- Same Civ: -50%
- Different Continent: +100%
- "Optimal" Road link: +50%
- "Optimal" Rail link: +100%
- Superhighways in home city: +50%
- Superhighways in both cities: +100%
- Airports in BOTH cities: +50% (different continent/civ or no SH?)

These are NOT listed in order of application, but I would guess that if you followed Samson's order you will probably get pretty close, so try putting the Different Continent modifier before the Same Civ, and add all the "Transportation" modifiers together before applying them.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by JoeP
Nice title for your post... basics? lol

So two cities trading could be just 15 squares from each other, and get a huge value?

1) I call this 'basics' because advanced trading means having a thorough Knowledge of blocking and unblocking commodity slots
(I'll give links later on)

2) In my 'twin cities' system, cities 2 squares apart get very high trade routes (but very low 'One Time Bonuses')

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by funxus


I frequently lose fat foreign trade routes to poor domestic routes, and after checking it a few times it has turned out that trademaximizing isn't the problem.

Links:
Great library index #1
ST's GL index #2

I see that you have the links to Apolyton's GL: read solo's 'Guide to early landing'. It is tough, but it explains how it works much better than I could do it (with my poor English )

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by la fayette


(sorry for the link to my thread = still no access to Apolyton now)

Here's your Twin Cities thread, la fayette (its on my Favorites):
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30992