Musketeer rush

Idlenessss

Warlord
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
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128
I just have this thing I like to do with napoleon, in MP, that I thought would eb cool to share and see what ppl thing, now that I got it down to a real sort of system.

First of course build warrior. Amazes me how many ppl dont do this. If i get one before hitting population 2, I start working on barrack till pop 2. research: mysticism, polytheism. hopefully found hinduism


At pop 2 I start on worker. optimally there is stone next to yr capitol and he will be able to start building quarry right when u research masonry, but this isnt total necessary. After worker, i make settler.

What to research after poly (and maybe immediate masonry) depends on whats around u, liek obviously animal husbanry if thats what you have, maybe fishing, otherwise pottery. what i skip, however, is mining and bronze working (unless I really have issues with very low production, then i may research mining to get a mien up), but then research monotheism before settler is made, u should found at least 1 of hinduism or judaism, probably both.

so after settler is built, u start working on stonehenge, with help of organised religion. 2nd city placed immediately works on barracks to help in any warrior/quecha rushing that might occur around this time. research hunting and archery (and maybe, in the faint chance that u have horses, u mgiht get away with horse riding, but this is really dependant on pretty high commerce for both cities to catch up in the tech), then writing, preisthood and mediation. After stonehenge is built, u build 1 temple. After this is built u run a preist specialist and start building oracle. Unfortunately u normally will be finishing oracle if you let it run before the GP comes, so when this happens, I just stall by buildign something else (i.e. more work on barrack, or work on library) until the prophet comes. When prophet comes u lightbulb theology, finish oracle and use it to get paper. Then there is the long stretch, education. It might say it needs liek 120 turns(oh and this is epic speed), but actually as your cottages develop and u build library in your capitol, etc, the estimate will be decreasing by about 3 turns a turn. At this time you can expand, build 2 or 3 more cities, your tech might fall to 80 % shortly but the next GP arrives before all that long and can be used to buidl shrine, or even theoretically could lightbulb code of laws if you managed to expand a lot, but its not advisable to invite trouble with only archers at this stage of the game.

After education, u research gunpowder. normally yr done with gunpowder approximately exactly the time u built a university in yr capitol, and its around 700-800 AD, and yr musketeers swiftly demolish all your rivals. Quite fun.

Of course switch to theocracy once yr pumping musketeers, and i suggest promoting many of them to 2 stars and formation, because the only unit that could conceivably annoy them in the kindof near future is knights.
 
why would you want to be napoleon instead of his industrious fellow frenchman louis?
 
Oh, cause i dont use warlords...and napoleon has aggresive and louis doesnt heh....both have industrious.
 
Your amazed that people don't build warrior first??

You should read::
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/earlygrowth.php

Earlier you grow, more beakers you'll get, which means tech's sooner, and could essentially bring down your end date by a couple hundred years. I'm looking forward to going home and trying this out, however I fear::

This strat is only good if you are far away from other civ's in multi-player, as you will find that your "Power" graph will be quite low in comparison, and you would essentially be an easy target for war mongers, especially if your building Stonehenge and the oracle, which screams attack me in early warfare. Plus your strategy suggests you must obtain the oracle for paper. This is a long time (~30 turns) to wait for prophet to build something that everyone else is probably contemplating on building.

I also don't think musketmen/musketeers are all that great either. A properly promoted maceman is more powerful than a musketman. Anyway -- its a nice risky strat that when it works, I am sure you're the powerhouse of the game. I'm gonna give it a try and see how it goes.

Thanks for sharing your strat
 
First of course build warrior. Amazes me how many ppl dont do this. If i get one before hitting population 2, I start working on barrack till pop 2. research: mysticism, polytheism. hopefully found hinduism

Just one thing that got my curiosity ... in non-multiplayer, usually having to research mysticism and then med/poly means that you wont found a religion ... im guessing that its different in multiplayer?
 
Bronzeworking is usually a priority in MP, so that you can whip troops to foil a rush. You might not win, but u can cripple the rusher with a long war and he doesnt win either. Which makes me wonder about those wonders. What do you do if you are attacked during this strat? Switch to research BW and start whipping in 10 rounds? Too late. Your civ would fall without resistance and hand a win to the warmonger.

Nonetheless, I want to rush with musketeers too :) Been thinking about how to do so. Was considering taking Nationalism with Liberal, then researching gunpowder to draft them, but this would be much later than 800AD.

Lightbulbing paper with a GProphet is new to me, thanks for that tip.
 
Well... I was gonna Mod the XML and Change Napoleans Traits from Cha/Org to Agg/Org for Drafting Combat 1 Musketeers.

How I would Beeline to Gunpowder, Playing normally depending on starting location, build a library and Pop a GS for an Academy and continuously Pop GS, Research Literature for GL If I have Marble for more GS and possibly also build NE, Use the rest of your GS to Lighbulb Techs, Philosophy (Remember to switch to Pacifism for Faster GP generation), Paper and Education, After I get Philosophy I try to time my research of CS and Poping of GS at the same time so I can immediately lightbulb Paper after (remember to switch to Bureaucracy civic). After Lightbulbing Eduction, Research Liberalism and Take Nationalism as free tech and continue researching onto gunpowder, switch to Nationalhood and Theocracy (After researching Gunpowder) If available or switch out of Pacifism because your going into War And Draft a whole lot of Musketeers for Pillage or Clean up combined with your Maces/Swords & Cats for City Raiding.

on medium levels Noble/Prince you should be generally be able to get Muskets before the AI gets Maces, and definitely before Knights, which are the only units that can counter them, remember the AI can't promote their units to Pinch as Pinch requires the Gunpowder tech, try to minimise Tech Trading so it takes longer for them to research to Guilds to keep your Military Advantage.

Obviously Louis's Traits Cre/Ind much Better for the Beeline, as Creative gets cheap Libraries for earlier GS and Industrious helps in the consturction of GL

Napolean's Traits are Better for Warmonging, even though he'll reach to Gunpowder much later, he cheaper Promotions will cover for the lost time and his Organized Trait Allows you to conquer more land before your economy crashes.
 
Well again, a lot of the things on this post suggest u ppl are using warlords, and Im on vanilla and really dont know about warlords, so I dunno.

Archers can actually assist fine against some early rush, u will normally need 2 archers per axemen, this is true, but then they are having to walk to you, before a road netowrk is up, so this can be handled.

I find yes, in MP, u usually will be founding both religions, and i find that u usually will be getting both wonders, theoretically other civs might be able to beat u to oracle, if they have serious intention to, but as already pointed out, its risky, and in my experience ppl wait a few more turns than this to start building oracle...their 1st priority is bronze and hooking up cooper and only THEN chopping to get the oracle. This strat actually starts building oracle sooner than that.

The only time yr vulnerable is when yr researching education/gunpowder. But 2 cities producing archers should be able to keep you alive, at least long enough for musketeers to arrive.

Of course its possible for a maceman to kill a musketeer, but the musketeer will win more often. besides, yr workign with 2 moves against 1, a decent strategist can really use this to their advantage. Theoretically enemies could be promoting all their units to pincer, but getting the experience for that wouldnt be easy-they would HAVE to be an aggresive civ.

besides, yr getting musketeers around 700 AD here, most ppl are still running around with their axemen and maybe just got construction. U dont normally see in MP ppl getting civil service until 1100-1200 AD
 
I just dont get this love of the musketeer. What does a musketeer do around a knight? I realize the musketeer is capable of being a city raider, but it cant even defend itself against a knight which comes sooner.

Then there is pinch. And as soon as pinch comes everything i got gets pinch (though I guess the big boys want city raider). But the problem is musketeers who are already not out strengthing other units are now having to deal with pinch which is like the perfect modern era upgrade for defensive minded people. (though pinch isnt in warlords. Pinch is +25% versus gunpowder units)
 
I just dont get this love of the musketeer. What does a musketeer do around a knight? I realize the musketeer is capable of being a city raider, but it cant even defend itself against a knight which comes sooner.

Then there is pinch. And as soon as pinch comes everything i got gets pinch (though I guess the big boys want city raider). But the problem is musketeers who are already not out strengthing other units are now having to deal with pinch which is like the perfect modern era upgrade for defensive minded people. (though pinch isnt in warlords. Pinch is +25% versus gunpowder units)

The Problem with Muskets isn't because Knights can counter them, all units can be countered if you have the right resources and technology, the problem with Muskets is if your don't beeline to them they have a very short lifespan because if you have engineering, Grenadiers are only one tech away so why waste your Hammers on Muskets when you can build stronger Grenadiers?

I made a Mod where I Decreased the Musketeer's Move to 1 and Gave them Free Morale Promotion and a Made a Morale II Promotion as a GG Promotion so Musketeers can be still used even when their Obsolete because the Morale Promotion can be carried on into Rifles and etc... Not sure if it's overpowered or not but it's fun and makes the Musketeer more worth while.
 
I just dont get this love of the musketeer. What does a musketeer do around a knight? I realize the musketeer is capable of being a city raider, but it cant even defend itself against a knight which comes sooner.

Use defensive terrain. Protect trebs/cats. Force knights to defend in city - such a pity.

I agree though, muskets are pretty worthless unless beelined. Even when beelined, grens are so close.
 
I guys dont get it, yr getting muskets @ about 700 AD with this tactic. When are u getting knight in MP? 700 AD i dont think so. Most ppl still have axemen.
I just now played a game, had some luck with villages and got muskets by 500 AD, took out both my neighbors capitols very quickly. one guy managed to get longbowmen but musket with cover kill them easily. zero casualties here.

Thats why i called it a rush, u know, because yr takign advantage of a window of opportunity for them. Since they get 2 moves it also means yr hitting them hard and quick. Advance catapults ahead of the muskets and only give them accuracy, u are not sacing catapults here, u dont need to! 2 stacks of: 2 catapults with accuracy, 1 medic 2 musket , 1 or 2 cover musket depending on longbow presence and variable number of formation musket, thats it, u can expect to wipe out 2 enemies BEFORE they have a way to handle it, and without losing units. (Tho since u have like 6 spare archers acting as defense during the slingshot, they can be sent in as well in the initial attack, to just suicide and soften up city defense)
 
I think the better way to go is 30+'s Liberalism gambit. Get a few work techs, get Writing, chop library, get scientists working, go for Alphabet/(chances are you'll be able to trade for some good techs you missed)Literature, chop Great Library, research CoL/Math (but chances are good to be able to trade for at least one of these), use your 1st GS to lightbulb Philosophy, research Civil Service (all the while maxing you great ppl pts), and possibly paper, use the next 2 GS's to lightbulb education. Then go for gunpowder. (after that you can get liberalism+nationalism for the draft) its not unreasonable to get gunpowder circa 500AD. Philosophical civs can do this pretty easily as they can produce 5 great ppl in this time spread without breaking a sweat so they can also lightbulb Paper and often have an extra one to burn on an academy. I find with non-philos, I end up having to research Paper manually.
 
I think the better way to go is 30+'s Liberalism gambit. Get a few work techs, get Writing, chop library, get scientists working, go for Alphabet/(chances are you'll be able to trade for some good techs you missed)Literature, chop Great Library, research CoL/Math (but chances are good to be able to trade for at least one of these), use your 1st GS to lightbulb Philosophy, research Civil Service (all the while maxing you great ppl pts), and possibly paper, use the next 2 GS's to lightbulb education. Then go for gunpowder. (after that you can get liberalism+nationalism for the draft) its not unreasonable to get gunpowder circa 500AD. Philosophical civs can do this pretty easily as they can produce 5 great ppl in this time spread without breaking a sweat so they can also lightbulb Paper and often have an extra one to burn on an academy. I find with non-philos, I end up having to research Paper manually.

If you use the oracle (or a propeht) to get theology, you don't need CS. It's easier to get theology than CS!

So here is my variant for a gunpowder slingshot :
- research mysticism, polytheism, priesthood, start the oracle,
- research mining, masonry, monotheism, writing
- get theology for free
- build a library (can be started in another city before finishing the oracle), assign 2 scientists
- research alphabet, trade for BW at least (some backfilling is good too, maths!, IW, currency, ... but no sailing and no CoL). If you don't have it (traded or else), research the wheel.

If you didn't trade for sailing (you shouldn't!), you can now lightbulb paper with the Great Scientist.
Now you can trade for CoL and sailing (if available, useless in the beeline).
You can start researching cheaper techs (to avoid WFYABTA) while growing another GS for education (you may start researching it up to a bit less than half).
If you get a prophet, you're ****ed !
 
Just want to tag this for later.

I'm much more interested in using it for Janissaries though ;)
 
So I gave this strat a try last night, and it failed two times, and worked the third. First two times, I had bad city placement, and both the Stonehenge and Oracle were built in far away lands. The third time I had marble, pigs, wheat, and 2 hills with a total of four trees. The plan worked out, and I added the Great Library on the things to get, as it cut down the time for education, when my GS appeared. I was playing as the Ottoman, because I like the Janissaries 25% bonus, plus the theocracy bonus was quite nice of a promotion. I got my Janissaries at 550AD, and took over two civs before reaching the third who quickly obtained grenadiers, then I was done. It was fun though, ... and very nerve racking. I built as many archers to keep me in the middle of the power graph so I wasn't a target. That seemed to buy me the time for the early riflemen.
 
Interesting Cabert, I'll have to try it. But, I think you should save your GS and research Paper the hard way (as it is relatively cheap), that way you can use both GS's on Education.
 
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