My Civs and Leaders Wishlist + Ideal Progression.

[Kankan]

Whilst Civ 7 has a much larger number of civs than any other (vanilla) Civ game in the base game, it still has the issue of weird or rather illogical progression outside of Europe alongside more underrepresented areas.

For example, Aksum to Songhai to Buganda is extremely awkward and would be like jumping from Han China to Chola India to the Ottomans (although not in the game it works for this analogy). 3 entirely unrelated cultures/civs that never overlapped with borders and spoke languages of different language families. This isn’t helped by them being extremely far away from each other. This is just my wishlist of some civs and leaders that could be cool to see in the game and could fix the issue of weird progression

Any with an asterisk(*) are civs that if added would likely need an alternative to an associated wonder - see my Unique Project idea. (Leaders are listed under the age they were from in real life)

Americas

Antiquity

Tiwanaku (unlocks Inca in Exploration Age)

Leader(s): Yik’in Chan K’awiil

Exploration

Aztecs (unlocks Mexico in Modern Age)

Leader(s): Montezuma I, Lautaro

Modern

Gran Colombia
Brazil
Iroquois

Leader(s): Pedro I, José de San Martín, Toussaint L’Ouverture, Benito Juárez, Frida Kahlo


Europe

Antiquity

Goths (unlocks Holy Roman Empire in the Exploration Age)
Wessex (unlocks Normans in the Exploration Age)
Gaul* (Unlocks Franks in the Exploration Age)

Leader(s): Alfred the Great, Alaric, Alexander the Great, Justinian the Great, Vercingetorix

Exploration

Holy Roman Empire (unlocks Prussia in the Modern age)
Franks (unlocks France in the Modern age)
Venice (unlocks Italy in the Modern Age)
Portugal (unlocks Brazil in the Modern Age)
Denmark (unlocks Sweden in the Modern Age)
Poland (unlocks PLC in the Modern Age)

Leader(s): Enrico Dandolo, Vasco da Gama, Canute (unlocks Denmark), Skanderbeg, Mehmed II (also Asia), Charles V,

Modern

Italy
Sweden
Ottomans (technically also Asia but nevertheless)
PLC

Leader(s): Gustavus Adolphus, Mahmud II


Africa

Antiquity

Kanem-Bornu
Wagadou (unlocks Songhai in Exploration Age and Ashanti in Modern Age)
Nok*
Kush (unlocks Makuria in Exploration Age)
Bantu* (Unlocks Kilwa and Mutapa in Exploration Age)

Leader(s): Kaleb, Piye, Masinissa, Dinga Cisse, Hannibal Barca

Exploration

Benin* (unlocks Oyo in Modern Age)
Makuria (unlocks Funj in Modern Age)
Ajuran (unlocks Ethiopia in Modern Age)
Kilwa (unlocks Buganda in Modern Age)
Mutapa (unlocks Zulu in Modern Age)

Leader(s): Ewuare I, Al-Hasan ibn Suleiman, Oduduwa, Sonni Ali, Nzinga Mbande, Zara Yaqob, Sundiata Keita, Mansa Musa

Modern

Sokoto
Ethiopia
Funj
Oyo
Ashanti
Alawiyyas
Zulu*
Morocco

Leader(s): Menelik II, Bashorun Gaa, Usman dan Fodio, Muhammad Ali Pasha, Nana Asmau, Osei Tutu I, Shaka, Samori Toure, Emir Abdelkader, Omar Al-Mukhtar, Yaa Asantewaa, Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti

Asia

Antiquity

Hittite (unlocks Seljuks)
Babylon (unlocks Abbasids)
Sumeria (unlocks Abbasids)
Yamato Japan (unlocks Edo Japan)
Armenia (unlocks Georgia)
Göktürk* (unlocks Mongolia and Seljuks)
Srivijaya (unlocks Majapahit)

Leader(s): Ashurbanipal, Gilgamesh, Tigranes the Great, Seondeok

Exploration

Seljuks (unlocks Ottomans)
Timurids (unlocks Mughals)
Edo Japan (unlocks Meiji Japan)
Georgia
Goryeo (unlocks Joseon)
Sassanids (unlocks Qajars) - could very well be antiquity

Leader(s): Timur, Tamar, Alp Arslan, al-Khwarizmi, Harun Al-Rashid, Zheng He, Omar Khayyam

Modern

Ottomans (also European)
Joseon
Bukhara
Oman (unlocked by playing Abbasids as Ibn Battuta)
Sulu

Leader(s): Nader Shah, Mahmud II, Kangxi Emperor, Meiji, Said bin Sultan

Progression:

Tiwanaku-> Inca -> Gran Colombia
Maya -> Aztecs -> Mexico
Rome -> Portugal -> Brazil
Missippians -> Shawnee -> Iroquois
Goths -> HRE -> Prussia
Wessex -> Normans -> Britain
Gaul -> Franks -> France
Rome -> Franks -> France
Rome -> Venice -> Italy
Goths -> Denmark -> Sweden
Goths -> Poland -> PLC
Hittites -> Seljuks -> Ottomans
Greece -> Bulgaria -> Ottomans
Wagadou -> Songhai -> Sokoto
Wagadou -> Songhai -> Morocco
Wagadou -> Songhai -> Ashanti
Nok -> Benin -> Oyo
Nok -> Benin -> Ashanti
Kush -> Makuria -> Funj
Aksum -> Ajuran -> Ethiopia
Bantu -> Kilwa -> Buganda
Bantu -> Mutapa -> Zulu
Egypt -> Abbasids -> Alawiyyas
Carthage -> Abbasids -> Morocco
Göktürks -> Mongolia -> Bukhara
Gökturks -> Timurids -> Ottomans (or Bukhara or Mughals)
Persia -> Sassanids -> Qajars
Silla -> Goryeo -> Joseon
Srivijaya -> Majapahit -> Sulu
Sumeria -> Abbasids -> Oman


This in a sense allows civ progression to be a bit more natural and would allow for much better immersion rather than having say Aksum evolving into a civilisation thousands of kilometres away.

What other civs and leaders would you all find cool to see in the game?

 

[Ryansinbela]

We need more rep from Oceania

 

[Vahnstad]

Not going to do leaders, also an approximations for what age they should be placed in.

My wishlist:

Americas:

Antiquity:
Taino
Inuit
Teotihuacan
Guarani
Tiwanaku
Olmec
Pueblo

Exploration:
Aztecs
Arawak
Tlingit
Mapuche
Navajo
Muisca
Cherokee
Purepecha

Modern:
Haiti
Colombia
Cuba
Argentina
Canada
Brazil
Iroquois
Apache

Europe:

Antiquity:
Gauls
Goths
Norse
Iceni
Galatia
Lusitanians (or Celtiberians)
Kyivan Rus
Romuva Lithuania (or Burgundians)
Illyrians
Dacians or Thracians
Franks

Exploration:
Bulgaria
Byzantium
Portugal
Netherlands
Iceland
Norway
Denmark
Venice
Scotland
Novgorod
Poland
Hungary
Austria or Habsburgs or Holy Roman Empire
Wallachia
Bohemia

Modern:
Great Britain
Ottomans
Italy
Sweden
Belgium
Switzerland
Ireland
Romania
Finland


Africa:

Antiquity:
Carthage
Zimbabwe
Kanem Bornu
Ghana

Exploration:
Mali
Morocco
Ajuuraan
Kilwa
Mamluks
Benin
Mutapa

Modern:
Ethiopia
Sokoto
Kongo
Alawiyaas
Ashanti
Oyo
Zulu

Asia

Antiquity:
Assyria
Babylon
Silla Korea
Yamato Japan
Srivijaya
Harappa
Tibet (if it only were possible)
Scythia or Huns
Pagan Burma
Sukhotai
Champa
Sunda
Pandyas/Madurai
Gökturks
Hittites
Sumeria
Armenia
Ainu

Exploration:
Gorkha
Dai Viet
Edo Japan
Ayutthaya
Vijayanagar
Delhi
Bengal
Goryeo Korea
Sassanid Iran/Persia
Toungou Burma
Seljuk
Timurids
Georgia

Modern:
Nepal
Dzungars
Joseon Korea
Sri Lanka
Duranni
Qajar Iran/Persia
Laos
Brunei
Bangladesh
Phillipines
Bukhara
Oman

Oceania

Antiquity:
Tonga
Aboriginal Australia (but i know they don't want to)

Exploration:

Modern:
Australia
Maori

___

This is difficult. Don't be offended please by anything. I'm sure my logic is flawed and that I forgot a ton. And the balance seems off. Also placing the civs in the right era seems insanely hard, and than you have to basically balance it out which is very rough to do for like Europe for instance. And also Africa and the Americas, and for Asia it's the other way around where it's harder to find modern equivalents. Exploration age is the easiest age to find civs for.

 

[Kankan]

We need more rep from Oceania

Agreed! Fortunately Whina Cooper is set to be one of the DLC leaders so that's already great

I think its best options are all in the Exploration era or the Modern era however some could fit into more than one like Tonga and Maori

Exploration

Tonga


Modern

Maori
Australia

 

[Ryansinbela]

Tonga seems more likely to be Antiquity

 

[Vahnstad]

I just wonder how they'll do Tonga in antiquity age without distant lands

 

[moondog385]

Soooo many civs I would like to see. The design philosophy of this game really opened things up (I'm not including civs found in game files or otherwise leaked). Not sure about some of these placements, but it's rough.

Americas
Antiquity: Nazca, Tiwanaku, Toltec
Exploration: Mexica, Mixtec, Muisca, Guarani, Taino
Modern: Haudenosaunee, Brazil, Navajo, Cuba, Tlingit

Europe
Antiquity: Goths, Gauls, Norse
Exploration: Italy, Poland, Rus, Byzantines, Portugal, Ireland, Hungary, al-Andalus
Modern: Netherlands

Middle East
Antiquity: Nabataean, Hittites, Assyria, Babylon
Exploration: Sasanians
Modern: Omani, Ottomans

Central/South Asia
Antiquity: Sogdia, Gupta
Exploration: Bengal, Delhi
Modern: Durrani

East Asia
Antiquity: Xiongnu
Exploration: Shogunate Japan, Goryeo
Modern: Joseon

Africa
Antiquity: Amazigh, Ghana
Exploration: Swahili, Shona, Madagascar, Kongo, Hausa
Modern: Ethiopia, Oyo

 

[mclaw]

I do hope they make things a bit more sensical. It would be awesome to play with the current mechanics if there is also the option to stay somewhat true to history. It would allow for truly interesting scenarios, narratives, and gameplay. I put together a list of how each current civ could have a corresponding civ in the ages preceding or succeeding it. I also added a few more to round it all out. Just a start, could be cool. Lemme know what you guys think!

 

[Ryansinbela]

My only worries would be whether or not they could come up with something interesting for these but nothing is out of the realm of possibility

 

[RedCourtJester]

My needs are pretty simple now that it seems we will definitely be getting a full Polynesian path. I have no doubt that most regions will get pretty adequate three-era paths if DLC goes on long enough. I am not worried about Korea/Japan, Southeast Asia, Scandinavia, Slavic Europe, Great Britain, or Latin America.

The edge cases I would like to see make it in:

* Tygyn Darkhan and some kind of Scythia -> Sakha path (I suppose Mongolia and Russia are...okay?).
* At least some Pashtun representation, if not a full three civ path (Sogdia -> Durrani/Sikh?).
* Better Maghrebi representation: Carthage is fine but I was really hoping for Garamantes/Numidia, hopefully we still get Almoravid/Almohad and a modern Morocco.
* Swahili seem likely but if we could also pair the Zulu with stuff like Zimbabwe or Mutapa that would be fantastic.
* Full Australia and Canada paths please. Something like Inuit/Haida/Tlingit -> Metis/Cree -> Canada and Pama-Nyungan -> Noongar -> Australia.
* Modern Anishinaabe (or Lakota) for Tecumseh's Great Blue Wall. Just do it Firaxis, and I will forgive you if we never get Pueblo/Hohokam and Navajo/Apache representation.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Random question, what would Zulu’s symbol be. I was wondering what they could use that would be different to Buganda

 

[GeneralZIft]

Dear Firaxis, add all of this, thank you.

Jokes aside, gotta love your picks Babylon, Sumeria and Oman. Very cool dude. 10/10

 

[Kankan]

I do hope they make things a bit more sensical. It would be awesome to play with the current mechanics if there is also the option to stay somewhat true to history. It would allow for truly interesting scenarios, narratives, and gameplay. I put together a list of how each current civ could have a corresponding civ in the ages preceding or succeeding it. I also added a few more to round it all out. Just a start, could be cool. Lemme know what you guys think!
View attachment 719432

That's a really good progression table
I would however switch Oyo and Benin (Benin's peak was in the Exploration Age and Oyo's was in the Modern Age)

As for Algeria, a better Exploration option would be the Zayyanids in my opinion.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Europe:
Antiquity:
Dacia - Balkanic line
Gaul - Western European line
Goths - Germanic & Central European line
Merovingians - French & Low Country line (replaces Frankia)
Norse - Nordic line

Exploration:
- Denmark or Iceland - nordic line
- Flanders or Burgundy - Low country line
- Bohemia - Central European line
- Austria - Germanic Line
- Byzantium - Greek line
- Kievan Rus - Russian line
- Portugal
- Tuscany or Venice - Italian line

Would also like to see the Spanish Civ be renamed to Castile.

Modern:
- Netherlands - Low Country line
- Poland - Central European line
- Serbia - Balkanic Line
- Sweden-Norway - Nordic line
- Sardinia-Piedmont - Italian Line
- Austria-Hungary - Germanic Line

Leaders: Alfred Nobel // Anna Komnene // Edward III // Emilia Planer // Jan Hus // Leif Erikson // Olga // Vlad Tepes

Africa:
Antiquity:
- Nubia
- Numidia
- Wagadu
- Xhosa

Exploration:
- Ayyubids
- Benin
- Berbers
- Kanem-Bornu or Mali
- Kongo
- Swahili
- Zimbabwe

Modern
- Dahomey
- Egyptian Republic
- Ethiopia
- Morocco
- Nigeria
- Sokoto
- Zulu or Maasai

Leaders: Averroes // Dihya // Ezana // Saladin // Sayyida al-Hurrah // Shaka

Asia & Oceania
Antiquity:
- Armenia
- Babylon
- Cham
- Judea
- Hittites
- Kushans
- Sogdia
- Sumer

+ an aboriginal Australian tribe.

Exploration:
- Burma
- Druze
- Georgia
- Joseon
- Oman
- Ottomans
- Tatars
- Yemen

Modern:
- Australia
- Durrani / Afghanistan
- Jordan or Saudi
- Malaysia
- Türkiye
- Uzbekistan

Leaders: Abbas I // Arwa al-Sulayhi // Bayinnaung // David Unaipon // Esarhaddon // Gajah Mada // Masako Hojo // Mithridates of Pontus // Nur Jahan // Puduhepa // Sargon // Solomon // Sun Tzu // Tamar the Great // Taksin the Great // Tigranes II // Timur Lenk

America's

Antiquity
- Moche or Nazca
- Olmecs or Zapotecs
- Pueblo (based on the Anasazi)

Exploration
- Aztecs
- Guárani or Tupi
- Iroquois
- Méttis or Cree
- Muisca or Mapuche
- Navajo
- Taino

Modern

- Brazil
- Canada
- Cherokee or Lakota
- Gran Colombia or Argentina
- Haiti
- Tlingit or Haida

Leaders: Alberto Santos-Dumont // Axayacatl // Chief Powhatan // Eréndita // Osh-Tisch // Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz // Spearthrower Owl

 

[mclaw]

That's a really good progression table
I would however switch Oyo and Benin (Benin's peak was in the Exploration Age and Oyo's was in the Modern Age)

As for Algeria, a better Exploration option would be the Zayyanids in my opinion.

Thanks, I agree. I'll post an updated/finished table in a main thread eventually. Hoping to get more feedback like this

 

[Archanist]

I think Sulu is a much better fit for Exploration than Modern, a lot of their history that's easily translatable to game mechanics works better in the Exploration age such as their raiding and piracy, then their pearling efforts after. Even though (broad strokes) they came from Majapahit, I think they'd fit more thematically being with them in age.

(I'm a bit biased for that too since I have a mod in works for them that sets them in Exploration)

 

[Kankan]

I think Sulu is a much better fit for Exploration than Modern, a lot of their history that's easily translatable to game mechanics works better in the Exploration age such as their raiding and piracy, then their pearling efforts after. Even though (broad strokes) they came from Majapahit, I think they'd fit more thematically being with them in age.

(I'm a bit biased for that too since I have a mod in works for them that sets them in Exploration)

I think Sulu is a good fit for both especially given how the Golden Age of Piracy was at the end of what is classed as the Exploration Age and the start of the Modern Age (especially given how Sulu is already an independent power in the Exploration Age).

I think they could be a good modern age civ on the basis of progression but are also great for the Exploration Age.

 

[Kankan]

Africa
Antiquity: Amazigh, Ghana
Exploration: Swahili, Shona, Madagascar, Kongo, Hausa
Modern: Ethiopia, Oyo

I think Songhai is a fine choice instead of a potential Hausa civ since Songhai's cities list includes Zaria (previously known as Zazzau) as well as multiple Hausa cities such as Zazzau so I think Sokoto in the Modern era might be a better choice, either way though it is overall great list

 

[RogueAustralian]

Hold on, saving this thread for reasons.

This is fantastic. Appreciate all the effort you put into this - I have two more civs on my shortlist before I start looking into some of these but this is a fantastic wishlist.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

With Bulgaria, Normans, and Spain, I do wonder what the path forward for Exploration Age Europe is going to be... an HRE Civ could transition well into both Italy and (of course) Prussia, but at the same time Italy is probably most interesting in a vacuum as an Exploration Tuscany or Venice, and could somewhat reasonably transition to Prussia through the HRE connection. It really depends on how deep they plan to go in certain regions how early on, though Europe's marketability makes it a prime candidate to start fleshing out more... however, given that a Spain/Norman/HRE-adjacent/Bulgaria lineup forms a pretty good skeleton to add any Modern or Antiquity Iberian/France or Britain-adjacent/Central European/Eastern European civ to, I think I'd be fine with some of my wanted Civilizations that serve those areas similarly waiting a bit. For instance, Greece/Bulgaria/Russia makes a Kievan Rus' or even my beloved Byzantium slightly redundant for now (in terms of gap-filling efficiency, that is: they could all have very unique gameplay styles.) What I will put on my wishlist for Eastern Europe, however, is an Exploration-age leader. Does Europe have a lot of leaders already? Yes! However, the redundancy is mostly to the west, the only leader from the east being Catherine the Great, who, funnily enough, was famously focused on bringing western European influence to Russia. This may just be my personal bias, but I'd like to see an Orthodox leader (an in my religion, not as in a standard pick for the series). Especially if we aren't getting Byzantium soon, I'd like a Leader who can infuse our current Greece civ with a vibe other than the Renaissance adoption of it, a vibe more in line with Byzantium and the Orthodox nations as a whole. For this reason, I'd specifically not like a leader from classical Greece, an Alexander or a Pericles: they are far too closely associated with that bland, sterilized white color. A Roman leader would be my first pick, without a doubt: Anna Komnene at the tippy top of my list, with pretty much any notable emperor, empress, or scholar being fine. However, there are choices from other places that can isolate that Orthodox vibe (I think I use the word "vibe" too much). Olga immediately comes to mind, for one! For another option, while I personally wouldn't be the biggest fan, this is probably the best opportunity the series has had to work in Vlad the Impaler.

TL;DR: I'd like to see a leader from a hypothetically Exploration Age Orthodox Christian Civilization to make Greece -> Bulgaria -> Russia feel more Eastern European throughout. My top choices would be Anna Komnene or Olga, and while he wouldn't be my first pick, I know that there's a market for Vlad the Impaler.