My First Intercontinental War, who should I attack?

[rathboma]

Hi all,

Firstly I want to say that because of the good advice given to me on these forums I am now destroying the AI civs on Noble!

It's reached the point in this game where I'm so advanced (infantry vs longbowmen, maybe musketmen occasionally) that I want to start my first intercontinental war and win a domination victory. Just being peaceful is far too boring after 600 years of peace.

I've never won by anything but a space race, and I've never launched a cross-continent war before either, but I figure with the production I have going for me, what have I got to loose?

I'm attaching my save, my intention is to go for shaka first, mainly because he refuses to trade with me and I want to kick his ass. There's a holy trinity with him, portugal and america all in the hindu camp, and I want to get the lot of them.

I guess my questions are:

who would you attack?

What should I research to bolster my attack forces going forwards?

Is Timbuktu something I should be getting in every game (a city with 80+ production)? It's the first time I've had a powerhouse like that before.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Other people might disagree, but I always target higher-tech AIs first. There are fewer techs the other AIs can feed them to try to thwart my conquest, and the ones that are high-tech might have tougher units but fewer of them, so the overall difficulty balances out.

Aggressive cave man beasts can always wait.

 

[tycoonist]

i always do the opposite. attack the less advanced civs to give your units exp. , then march on the more advanced civs with you superior army

 

[mirthadir]

Hi all,

Firstly I want to say that because of the good advice given to me on these forums I am now destroying the AI civs on Noble!

It's reached the point in this game where I'm so advanced (infantry vs longbowmen, maybe musketmen occasionally) that I want to start my first intercontinental war and win a domination victory. Just being peaceful is far too boring after 600 years of peace.

I've never won by anything but a space race, and I've never launched a cross-continent war before either, but I figure with the production I have going for me, what have I got to loose?

I'm attaching my save, my intention is to go for shaka first, mainly because he refuses to trade with me and I want to kick his ass. There's a holy trinity with him, portugal and america all in the hindu camp, and I want to get the lot of them.

I guess my questions are:

who would you attack?

What should I research to bolster my attack forces going forwards?

Is Timbuktu something I should be getting in every game (a city with 80+ production)? It's the first time I've had a powerhouse like that before.

Note I have not opened your save.

1. I attack the tech leader if I'm clearly ahead and can destroy him before the next in rank will push past us both; sometimes I'll kill off the cultural guy(s) first. Most often I end up beating down the weakest guy as he is doomed to become some one's vassal (and hence makes the war to kill him much more expensive normally).
2. Have a few military cities just perpetually cranking out your best units. You want to get some nice new CG, AA, and perhaps medic troops to replace those troops detached for your SoD. Your top priority is siege or armor which should come from your highest promo cities. Actually getting them to the front normally means either researching flight and air dropping (SOOOO much less micro) or setting up a transport chain (where you load the units onto one transport, move the transport over to the next one, reload, and then repeat until you are at the front. As far as research, I'd grab fighters, tanks, and paratroops asap. Those allow you to overrun the AI faster.
3. I generally try to have three dedicated production cities. First is HE city, with settled GGs. I want to eventually have tanks rolling out of here every turn with 3 promos. My next city is my IW which, if anyone does, builds WP and also rolls a 3 promo tank per turn (perhaps MArty, fighters or bombers). My final is my stat city and that normally gets the Red Cross (though in a pinch this goes to IW), it rolls off ships or paratroops. These have minimal science buildings, but all the production I can cram into them. The actual hammer count is not too important to me; more than one per turn doesn't matter for unit production and if I can't manage that there is little to be gained by being much more than 2 units per 3 turns.

 

[JammerUno]

I usually overprepare intercontinental assaults but this is what I do:

Preparing:

1. some battleships/destroyers
2. some carriers with fighters
3. a whole lot of tanks
4. a bunch of marines
5. a lot of infantry as future garrisons (paratroopers are nice too)
6. aircraft, bombers if you can, fighters otherwise

Execution:

1. Pick one or two cities that will give you good lines to the front, no use in landing in Normandy when you could be landing in Hamburg.
2. Get rid of the cultural defence with fleet
3. Strike with fighters from your carriers, weakening the defenders
4. Use marines to capture city
5. move in transports and unload tanks (unloading means you can still move thesame turn)
6. move inland with the tanks
7. move aircraft from homeland to captured cities (these are to take out cultural defence, artillery is far less efficient than bombers/fighters)

Some details:

1. use your aircraft every turn, striking units is devastating, bombing away resouces like plantations, iron, oil, aluminium is a good idea as well.
2. use your marines, fleet, and aircraft carriers to capture the more remote coastal cities.
3. keep moving units to your captured cities, either by airlift or transport

 

[Joshua368]

Usually I would attack one of the weaker civilizations first, technologically backwards and not too well liked, and conquer or capitulate quickly. This is my "beachhead" which gives me a solid foothold on the continent from which to attack the rest. From the beachhead, I'll usually attack the most threatening leader next, to get rid of my main rival.

Outside of raw military techs, (rifles, steel, assembly line, industrialism, etc) the main technology that makes transcontinental warfare much easily is Flight, so aim for it quickly. Once you research it, build airports everywhere. You can then take off one unit from every city as fast as you make them, and transport them instantly to the other island, much faster than boats! Plus not only can you airlift units into your own cities, but vassals and friends with open borders as well.

 

[dankok8]

I'm with JammerUno and Joshua368 100%.

Another tech you may wanna have is Combustion - it gives you Destroyers and Transports. Big upgrade since Destroyers give you complete control of the seas (cutting trade routes, destroying enemy vessels, pillaging seafood) against wooden vessels and Transports take in 4 units instead of 3 for galleons. In addition, this navy moves much faster as well, allowing you to quickly pick up a new batch of reinforcements from back home.

 

[shyuhe]

I'd attack Joao. He's waaaaaaaaay backwards and your infantry should run all over him. On a side note, I'd build a lot more workers and fill in the rest of your land with cities. And don't forget to adopt state property if you want to keep his cities.

 

[rathboma]

Now Joao has a vassal, should I not worry about him? (Rooservelt)

He's pretty low on score and tech.

 

[Skallagrimson]

i always do the opposite. attack the less advanced civs to give your units exp. , then march on the more advanced civs with you superior army

Whenever I do that the high-techer AIs start feeding them military techs, so now instead of Shaka's impi-spam you are facing Shaka's rifleman-spam. With your army of rifles/cavs/cannons.

Restart. Scratch head. Watch DVD to reboot the brain.

 

[Skallagrimson]

The actual hammer count is not too important to me; more than one per turn doesn't matter for unit production and if I can't manage that there is little to be gained by being much more than 2 units per 3 turns.

That's a good point to bring up: unit specialization among unit-producers in the late game. The uber-high-prod cities are wasting their hammers if you queue up small tasks like missiles that are better left for the hybrid cities with not as deep of a prod capacity. After a conquest I also usually have a few shrines, and am running free religion, so I dedicate one low-production city to blast out missionaries to spread in those cities to help with WW or rapid growth (and added coins from the shrines). Sometimes if that production's not low enough, I cycle in some cruise missiles or other low-cost units so the missionaries have time to travel and spread the religions, keeping one in the queue.

If you're not completely dominant on the seas, it's a waste to build land units in a coastal city, IMO. AIs in BtS are not quite as obsessed with plundering seafood as in vanilla or warlords, but they still go after it more often than not, and this is a time where city health is critical across the empire. And of course if you're invading overseas, they'll make a run for your transport fleet at all odds. Missiles for subs or MCruisers, and fighters for carriers, can be built on land, where by this time there's usually plenty of commerce cities that have no more buildings to build, and their hammer output is a good fit for those units.

Red Cross units don't need to be high- production either, as medic effects aren't cumulative. More than one spare in a stack after the main medic is overkill, and it would similarly be overkill to build RC in a high-hammer prod city.

The production powerhouses should focus on those units with the highest cost and highest need (usually siege and armor, although sometimes if my armies are "too successful" and the availability of CG troops drops dangerously low, I switch in CGs to crank those out faster). Mid-range producers should be focused at the mid-range of cost and the mid-range of need (CGs, and units like cavalry when they're not obsolete, as "pre-gunships"). They can also include units with low cost and high utility (depending on what the battle plan is, for example, fighters if they're useful at the time). Low-prod cities, missionaries and missiles a-go-go.

This specialization can take some MM to get cranking at the right balance, but once it's set right, it becomes a behemoth of military power in the late game with very little effort.

 

[UncleJJ]

There are two ages when intercontinental warfare is possible. The early age is with frigates and galleons when you can send stacks of cannons and rifles to cut through their longbows etc. The later age is based on destroyers and transports with carriers for air support and airports for fast reinforcement. I haven't looked at your save but it seems you're at the later stage and that can be a very fast conquest. Build plenty of airports on your own continent, 4 or 5 airports seems to be a good number to keep a conquest rolling.

Civics are important as well. You'll need to worry about war weariness (WW) and about colonial expenses (once you get more than about 4 cities on another landmass). Police State can solve the WW if you've built jails and Mt Rushmore. State Property can solve the colonial expense problem if you're not using corporations. If you use corporations then you had better be careful about courthouses and either Forbidden Palace or Versailles (which can be captured). Colonial expenses and corporations without courthouses is a hideously expensive way to conquer another continent; so try to make peace periodically and get the essential courthouses built with either US or Slavery before declaring and expanding again. Another option to deal with expenses is to donate cities to a vassal or spawn off your own colony. That will mean you have to conquer a few more cities (since vassals only count as half towards Domination) but solving the economic problems means you can concentrate on a quicker conquest.

Happy hunting

 

[shyuhe]

Now Joao has a vassal, should I not worry about him? (Rooservelt)

He's pretty low on score and tech.

You have infantry vs. LB. I don't think it's much of an issue. Plus you can totally out produce both of them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

There are two ages when intercontinental warfare is possible. The early age is with frigates and galleons when you can send stacks of cannons and rifles to cut through their longbows etc. The later age is based on destroyers and transports with carriers for air support and airports for fast reinforcement. I haven't looked at your save but it seems you're at the later stage and that can be a very fast conquest. Build plenty of airports on your own continent, 4 or 5 airports seems to be a good number to keep a conquest rolling.

Civics are important as well. You'll need to worry about war weariness (WW) and about colonial expenses (once you get more than about 4 cities on another landmass). Police State can solve the WW if you've built jails and Mt Rushmore. State Property can solve the colonial expense problem if you're not using corporations. If you use corporations then you had better be careful about courthouses and either Forbidden Palace or Versailles (which can be captured). Colonial expenses and corporations without courthouses is a hideously expensive way to conquer another continent; so try to make peace periodically and get the essential courthouses built with either US or Slavery before declaring and expanding again. Another option to deal with expenses is to donate cities to a vassal or spawn off your own colony. That will mean you have to conquer a few more cities (since vassals only count as half towards Domination) but solving the economic problems means you can concentrate on a quicker conquest.

Happy hunting

Frigates and galleons can be very fast also. With cavalry and frigate bombardment you can hose longbows in coastal cities and move pretty quickly from place to place. Even better is if you get airships before or during the war, through trade, self tech etc. Even with 80% defense from culture, longbows are pretty poor vs rifles or cavalry when they're 4.8 strength rather than 6. Muskets tend to be similarly terrible.

I agree the modern stuff is a little quicker but it doesn't have to be THAT much quicker with good renaissance logistics.

As for who to attack first, I usually pick targets that I can attack without getting declared on first/foremost. This is usually the backwards guy, since that civ won't have anything to bribe help with. A technologically advanced but hated person is no problem either.

Basically my aim is for 1) Keeping the war as simple and me dominating 1 AI as possible and then 2) Going for the easiest target after accounting for 1).

Of course if someone launched a ship or has 2 legendary cities that takes priority, I'm speaking generally here.

As you get more cities your will overtake the more technologically advanced AIs or whatever.

 

[Skallagrimson]

AIs don't have to declare on you. They can simply feed techs to your backward enemy. His primitive erstwhile unit spam is now NOT so primitive unit spam, and now you have a problem.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

AIs don't have to declare on you. They can simply feed techs to your backward enemy. His primitive erstwhile unit spam is now NOT so primitive unit spam, and now you have a problem.

Human players might do this. However, in non-vassal cases I've encountered exactly 0 cases of an AI giving another AI a tech for nothing, even to avert easy wars.

What you describe is, however, possible as part of a war bribe aka "i'll give you assembly line if you dow the human". THAT is a pretty big threat. The AI giving monty rifling or AL for absolutely nothing? Not so much.

 

[rathboma]

So I've started the war attacking Portugal. I'm streaming across infantry, tanks, and artillery via transports, although I just got flight so I could build airports now too.

I've taken the four biggest cities, which accounts for the majority of his army, most of the resulting cities just have a couple of longbows, or in rare cases a rifleman or two.

I think I've lost two infantry and a tank so far, which I was a little upset about. My tank died on 92% probability to win!

My transports can kill any ship they can throw against me, which is funny really, so I'm well and truly destroying him.

I'm going to clear up portugal, take out America, then declare peace and build up for shaka. If I can get a bit of infrastructure in these portugese cities I'm in a good position. Most of his cities won't even be under much cultural pressure from surrounding nations either, which is useful considering they'll have zip culture for a little while.

I like the missionary idea, I'll start pumping those out to spread the culture + get cash and also start spreading my corporations to enemy cities to support my treasury.

Should I try to take Portugal and America as vassals?

 

[Killroyan]

You are bummed out because you only lost 2 inf and 1 tank at 92% odds. Wow, the random number generator has been kind to you Somehow it always feels to me that I need at least 95% or more to be sure to win and even then it is unsure. Lost way too many 98-99% battles for my liking.

Overall for intercontinental wars I prefer also to take over a weak AI so you get a good foothold. After that build up and hit the tech leader next.

 

[rathboma]

That's why I'm going to take out America too, I could probably secure the American territory with a single moderate stack, most of his cities just have a couple of longbowmen, that means I only need 1 tank per city to kill him really, in one turn each!

Late-game warring is fun! Never done it before

 

[UncleJJ]

Frigates and galleons can be very fast also. With cavalry and frigate bombardment you can hose longbows in coastal cities and move pretty quickly from place to place. Even better is if you get airships before or during the war, through trade, self tech etc. Even with 80% defense from culture, longbows are pretty poor vs rifles or cavalry when they're 4.8 strength rather than 6. Muskets tend to be similarly terrible.

I agree the modern stuff is a little quicker but it doesn't have to be THAT much quicker with good renaissance logistics.

I didn't say how much faster I thought a modern inter continental conquest was than one based on frigates and galleons

There are several tricks that can make a combination of Renaissance and Industrial technologies quite fast. A chain of transports can get 3 units from one continent to another in 1 turn, needing a transport for every 5 tiles between continents. Amphibious invasions working down a coast using frigates to bombard defences and galleons (moving at 5 tiles/turn) to carry troops fast through enemy culture can take a city every 3 turns. Cavalry and cuirassiers with spies and airships can conquer inland cities (moving at 2 tiles/turn). But the modern age can do all that and has several other tricks and advantages.

Of course the use of fighters and bombers to reduce defences and weaken defenders can speed up conquest in the modern era. Paratroops can effectively attack a target 6 tiles distant (on the second turn) which gives an effective rate of 3 tiles/turn through hostile culture. Destroyers and transports move 1 tile faster than galleons and with Refigeration another tile faster again. Airports make reinforcement of cities on another continent quick and convenient allowing units, spies, workers, missionaries and executives to be flown anywhere in 2 turns.

How much faster is it? I'm not sure how to quantify it and don't really care In fact there is a counter argument that depends on whether the AI has railroads built or not. Railroads used defensively by the AI can make invasion a lot harder in the modern age than it was in the earlier age of galleons when movement of AI units is limited by roads to 3 tiles and 6 with mounted. That often allows an invading force to invade one end of a continent, take a few cities and then defeat the counterattacking forces piecemeal as the AI throws them sporadically into combat.