My trip to Guangzhou, China

[Mike Hussey]

Sending letters that need to be translated by a third party does not constitute a courtship. The fact that you said "at least" indicates that you don't actually know when she was divorced, which should be a gigantic red flag.

Besides, you're describing circumstances that thousands of Western men who marry Thai hookers every year describe. Jaded with all the failed relationships with fat greedy white women in their home countries, they go to Asia and find such feminine darlings who feed them lies to maintain that image. And she tells you a sob story about a husband or parents to elicit sympathy and get you to let down your guard. I'm not saying your wife is a hooker, but I'm sure this is all a scam in some way. At the very least, she sees it as a free ticket to a better life in the United States, and she may just ditch you while the ink is still drying on her green card.

You may have this idyllic notion of a nice Asian wife who can cook you Chinese food and give you a blow job whenever you like, but more likely than not you're in for a world of hurt. If you're unlucky, she'll take half your money in divorce court within months of landing in the United States.

The bottom line is that you should never get married with someone you just met. No offence, but to do so is stupid.

Besides which, you're going to have tremendous difficulty bringing this woman into the United States, if that is your goal. A lot of Asian dating services are merely fronts for human trafficking, getting foreign women into brothels in the United States, and ICE is aware of this. Because of this, a green card won't be automatic just because she's married a US citizen. Because you can't prove that there was an extended legitimate relationship ("I met her on the internet, flew to China for one week" just won't feed the cat), it's going to be next to impossible to get her in. You're going to have to hire an immigration lawyer and spends lots of time, money, and energy getting her that green card, which will only make it hurt even more if she ditches you after she gets it.

Yes, I agree with you. Many Asian women just use guys from Western countries to eventually go to and live in those countries. Whilst this is not true for absolutely 100% of cases it is for a very large majority. Not saying this applies to your case Bamspeedy but just beware of such cases.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Yes, I agree with you. Many Asian women just use guys from Western countries to eventually go to and live in those countries. Whilst this is not true for absolutely 100% of cases it is for a very large majority. Not saying this applies to your case Bamspeedy but just beware of such cases.

I won't say vast majority. If you live in Asia and you strike up a relationship with an Asian woman, with dating, meeting the family, eventually living together, and so forth, chances are she isn't scamming you just to get at your wallet.

But if you meet a poor Asian woman who can't speak English online, and she wants to marry you just days after meeting you, 99% of the time I'm sure it's a scam.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The fact that you said "at least" indicates that you don't actually know when she was divorced, which should be a gigantic red flag.

I just never asked her exactly when the divorce was. The site wouldn't have let her join the site if she was married. We talked about our previous relationships a bit and then moved on and talked about other things. I will find out the date when I start on the paperwork.

The site does a background check on the men and verify that the women are who they say they are and that they are not married. The site obviously can not guarantee the motives of the woman (no dating site anywhere ever possibly could).

and she may just ditch you while the ink is still drying on her green card.

If you're unlucky, she'll take half your money in divorce court within months of landing in the United States.

There is a minimum time period we must remain married, otherwise she gets sent back. ICE does follow-up interviews to ensure the marriage is legit.

Do you think your warnings are anything new for me to hear? I am quite aware of the possibility of her leaving me when she secures her citizenship. I don't have much for assets for her to take and she knows this.

You may have this idyllic notion of a nice Asian wife who can cook you Chinese food, but more likely than not you're in for a world of hurt.

She doesn't cook and wants to work, so the housewife who stays home all the time isn't what is planned for her by either of us.
Moderator Action: LesCanadien's comment removed.

The bottom line is that you should never get married with someone you just met. No offence, but to do so is stupid.

You sound like my mom. "Just meeting them for a few days and they will obviously be on their best behavior. You don't know if they pick their nose."

She doesn't pick her nose, but she does burp.

Wait, so what does her boyfriend think of all this? Is he not serious about their relationship at all?

You are the second idiot to make the mistake of thinking the translator with the boyfriend was the girl I was meeting.

In all seriousness Bamspeedy, do actually think you're going to get a visa for her?

I had already looked at the visa requirements and the assossiated costs. I will need to fill out forms, do an interview, have proof of communications with her (which I have receipts for, and all the letters too if needed), and have visited her at least once within the last 2 years (which I have a picture of us together and other proof of).

But if you meet a poor Asian woman who can't speak English online, and she wants to marry you just days after meeting you, 99% of the time I'm sure it's a scam.

The site is for people who are more geared towards marriage than simple dating, so getting married does progress faster since both were looking for that from the start.

http://www.chnlove.com/

I've seen a Miss Universe contestant on that site, but that would have been unrealistic for me. The 20 year olds would seem alot more risky (unless you are 20 years old yourself).

 

[Bamspeedy]

Anyway, back on topic....

The flight home was more crowded, so I didn't get an empty seat next to me like I did on the way out there. I was on the first flight out of Guangzhou and there was probably about 9 toddlers on that flight. All of the toddlers were Chinese, but 8 of them had all-white parents, so it was amazing how many Chinese children are being adopted by westerners. The kids weren't that bad for screaming and crying, but this may be something to keep in mind about the first flight of the morning leaving China.

I didn't get my luggage when I got home. I still ended up getting them, but not until the next day. Apparently there was a problem with the conveyor belt system or something at the Minneapolis airport, so I wasn't the only one to not get my luggage.

When I got home it was colder, there was more snow, a water pipe came loose (luckily my friend checking up on my house had came over and found it so he shut the water off before it got too bad), and my cat got outside all on the very last day.

 

[bathsheba666]

Hey, good luck, I wish you both all the best fortune.

 

[Merkinball]

I had already looked at the visa requirements and the assossiated costs. I will need to fill out forms, do an interview, have proof of communications with her (which I have receipts for, and all the letters too if needed), and have visited her at least once within the last 2 years (which I have a picture of us together and other proof of). - BamSpeedy

In all seriousness, do you actually think the Embassy and the Consulate are going to look at your INTERNET CHAT, examine your airplane tickets, a pair of pictures taken over the course of a week, and the few days of contact you've had with her, and stamp your papers?

Let me illuminate your mind for you. I have a good friend who has recently gone through this process.

This person was a US Serviceman, with honorable service.
When needed, he was apart of the Embassy Security Platoon.
She (his fiance) worked on the base, had a steady of source of income.
She speaks fluent English.
Her father was a prominent judge in Djibouti.
They had an actual physical relationship for one year where they were together and had intercourse.
Then they were apart for about a year and maintained contact.
Then we returned for another deployment where he was with her for close to a year AGAIN!

He initially began his fiance visa requirements (fiance visa is the smoothest visa mind you.) This was...oh...last October. So far as I know, she's still not here, but had been initially granted the visa a few months ago. During all this, from October to MAY! They were physically together, in Djibouti. She had a huge ring on her finger. They frequently visited the embassy...TOGETHER! Whenever they had meetings, they were together. Do you see what I'm getting at? They gave him a hard time, even though they were together for all that time, she spoke English, he was a freakin Marine. You're in America, and she's in China, and you met on a dating service, and you've hardly had any physical contact with her. Your example of committment, do the consulate and embassy, is that you bought a plane ticket and went to China for a short bit of time.

You think you're couple of pictures are enough? My friend submitted a bunch of pictures for proof of the relationship. Then they asked for more pictures that the relationship was current. So we went overkill, and I took pictures for them, and some video's as well. That still wasn't enough, because as the administrative process droned onwards, two more months passed, and they wanted more pictures of proof of the relationship. Do you think you're going to special and avoid this?

The process is hell, and it's going to be EVEN WORSE with you because you are in America and she is in China, and speaks no English. I hope you make a lot of money, because you're gonna be calling and mailing all kinds of crap out to China to do this. You will call, and you will call, and you will call. And they will send you around in circles, and make excuses. They will tell you that they will call you, or her, but they never will. And because she's a girl, they will just walk all over her. And you won't be there to make sure the stuff's getting done that's supposed to be getting done.

Here is how this works: They will purposefully lose your stuff. The will PURPOSEFULLY abstruct the entire process, from start to finish. They do this as a matter of policy to ensure that the relationship is solid and stable. The purposefully drag the process out as long as possible. They do it just so people quit, and give up. And of course, that's assuming you aren't the butt of the jokes at the Embassy the day they get your application, "GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY! He met this chick on a dating service, four months ago, and met her on a short vacation! It's TR00 love!"

Seriously, the process is complete hell. Your lofty notions that some reciepts, some emails are gonna be enough...yeah, it ain't gonna feed the cat. If you really, really, REALLY love her so much, you might as well pack up the shop, and go live in China for at least a year. Because that's how long the process is gonna take as it is...at least, and it's gonna be next to impossible to do it all from here, while she is there. I'm telling you right now. They will crush her soul. Their entire purpose in life is to make sure she doesn't get a visa. It isn't to ensure that you guys live happily ever after. That's not why these people exist. They exist to abstruct lives. They will question her, and question her, and interview her, and interview her. And without you there, next to her, she's gonna be so vulnerable. If she makes the slightest condradiction that can be percieved as a lie, you're done.

Oh, she's divorced you say!? Yeah, guess how that's gonna boil over as well. Formerly divorced women have greatly reduced odds of being accepted.

I'm not saying it's not gonna happen. I'm not saying it's impossible. But you pretty much have a snowballs chance in hell of achieving this.

In all seriousness, your best bet is for YOU to find a job THERE. Spend some actual time with her. Build an ACTUAL relationship. Catalogue it. Then try and get a fiance visa.

 

[ThERat]

Great read, Bamspeedy
I admire your courage to travel to China when you have never been abroad before. Traveling is the greatest way to open your eyes to new things!

Do not rush into things you might later regret. I do know what I am talking about. And do not think that Chinese people are less materialistic than Westerners. In fact, Chinese in general are freaking money minded. After living in a Chinese dominated society for almost 10 years, I think I know that money is what drives them.
In the end, I think it doesn't matter where your partner comes from, any myths about Asian or Western women etc are rubbish You can find good and bad anywhere, we are all human after all.

 

[Oerdin]

Your friend is not hot.

 

[philippe]

I don't care about the whole marriage stuff. Nice trip Bamspeedy and may you do more journeys for writing those reports

 

[Birdjaguar]

Sending letters that need to be translated by a third party does not constitute a courtship. The fact that you said "at least" indicates that you don't actually know when she was divorced, which should be a gigantic red flag.

Spoiler :

Besides, you're describing circumstances that thousands of Western men who marry Thai hookers every year describe. Jaded with all the failed relationships with fat greedy white women in their home countries, they go to Asia and find such feminine darlings who feed them lies to maintain that image. And she tells you a sob story about a husband or parents to elicit sympathy and get you to let down your guard. I'm not saying your wife is a hooker, but I'm sure this is all a scam in some way. At the very least, she sees it as a free ticket to a better life in the United States, and she may just ditch you while the ink is still drying on her green card.

You may have this idyllic notion of a nice Asian wife who can cook you Chinese food and give you a blow job whenever you like, but more likely than not you're in for a world of hurt. If you're unlucky, she'll take half your money in divorce court within months of landing in the United States.

The bottom line is that you should never get married with someone you just met. No offence, but to do so is stupid.

Besides which, you're going to have tremendous difficulty bringing this woman into the United States, if that is your goal. A lot of Asian dating services are merely fronts for human trafficking, getting foreign women into brothels in the United States, and ICE is aware of this. Because of this, a green card won't be automatic just because she's married a US citizen. Because you can't prove that there was an extended legitimate relationship ("I met her on the internet, flew to China for one week" just won't feed the cat), it's going to be next to impossible to get her in. You're going to have to hire an immigration lawyer and spends lots of time, money, and energy getting her that green card, which will only make it hurt even more if she ditches you after she gets it.

This quote from your profile seems more than appropriate:

Complaining, it's easier than working

And at 26 I'm sure you are wise beyond your years. All marriage is a risk and the gold diggers are not just foreigners. Many American women are far more skilled at sucking you dry in a hurry and leaving you bewildered, than foreign ones.

Until the 19th Century marriage was mostly arranged and all about gaining powerful in-laws. Passionate love is a late comer to marriage and not even necessary for a successful marriage. Do you think that you are a good judge of this girl's motives because you have access to the internet and can find examples of bad experiences? People create good, long lasting marriages through hard work and commitment. The statisitics of failure are just a compliation of individual inability to put the needs of one's spouse before one's own. Did you/will you base your marriage on government statistics of success? I would hope not.

In all seriousness, do you actually think the Embassy and the Consulate are going to look at your INTERNET CHAT, examine your airplane tickets, a pair of pictures taken over the course of a week, and the few days of contact you've had with her, and stamp your papers?

Spoiler :

Let me illuminate your mind for you. I have a good friend who has recently gone through this process.

This person was a US Serviceman, with honorable service.
When needed, he was apart of the Embassy Security Platoon.
She (his fiance) worked on the base, had a steady of source of income.
She speaks fluent English.
Her father was a prominent judge in Djibouti.
They had an actual physical relationship for one year where they were together and had intercourse.
Then they were apart for about a year and maintained contact.
Then we returned for another deployment where he was with her for close to a year AGAIN!

He initially began his fiance visa requirements (fiance visa is the smoothest visa mind you.) This was...oh...last October. So far as I know, she's still not here, but had been initially granted the visa a few months ago. During all this, from October to MAY! They were physically together, in Djibouti. She had a huge ring on her finger. They frequently visited the embassy...TOGETHER! Whenever they had meetings, they were together. Do you see what I'm getting at? They gave him a hard time, even though they were together for all that time, she spoke English, he was a freakin Marine. You're in America, and she's in China, and you met on a dating service, and you've hardly had any physical contact with her. Your example of committment, do the consulate and embassy, is that you bought a plane ticket and went to China for a short bit of time.

You think you're couple of pictures are enough? My friend submitted a bunch of pictures for proof of the relationship. Then they asked for more pictures that the relationship was current. So we went overkill, and I took pictures for them, and some video's as well. That still wasn't enough, because as the administrative process droned onwards, two more months passed, and they wanted more pictures of proof of the relationship. Do you think you're going to special and avoid this?

The process is hell, and it's going to be EVEN WORSE with you because you are in America and she is in China, and speaks no English. I hope you make a lot of money, because you're gonna be calling and mailing all kinds of crap out to China to do this. You will call, and you will call, and you will call. And they will send you around in circles, and make excuses. They will tell you that they will call you, or her, but they never will. And because she's a girl, they will just walk all over her. And you won't be there to make sure the stuff's getting done that's supposed to be getting done.

Here is how this works: They will purposefully lose your stuff. The will PURPOSEFULLY abstruct the entire process, from start to finish. They do this as a matter of policy to ensure that the relationship is solid and stable. The purposefully drag the process out as long as possible. They do it just so people quit, and give up. And of course, that's assuming you aren't the butt of the jokes at the Embassy the day they get your application, "GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY! He met this chick on a dating service, four months ago, and met her on a short vacation! It's TR00 love!"

Seriously, the process is complete hell. Your lofty notions that some reciepts, some emails are gonna be enough...yeah, it ain't gonna feed the cat. If you really, really, REALLY love her so much, you might as well pack up the shop, and go live in China for at least a year. Because that's how long the process is gonna take as it is...at least, and it's gonna be next to impossible to do it all from here, while she is there. I'm telling you right now. They will crush her soul. Their entire purpose in life is to make sure she doesn't get a visa. It isn't to ensure that you guys live happily ever after. That's not why these people exist. They exist to abstruct lives. They will question her, and question her, and interview her, and interview her. And without you there, next to her, she's gonna be so vulnerable. If she makes the slightest condradiction that can be percieved as a lie, you're done.

Oh, she's divorced you say!? Yeah, guess how that's gonna boil over as well. Formerly divorced women have greatly reduced odds of being accepted.

I'm not saying it's not gonna happen. I'm not saying it's impossible. But you pretty much have a snowballs chance in hell of achieving this.

In all seriousness, your best bet is for YOU to find a job THERE. Spend some actual time with her. Build an ACTUAL relationship. Catalogue it. Then try and get a fiance visa.

A data point of one is better than nothing, but do you know how many chinese women do get visa every year? This is an interesting forum thrread about marrying chinese women.

http://community.travelchinaguide.com/forum2.asp?pp=&i=37616

 

[LesCanadiens]

I just never asked her exactly when the divorce was. The site wouldn't have let her join the site if she was married. We talked about our previous relationships a bit and then moved on and talked about other things. I will find out the date when I start on the paperwork.

Don't you think that's something you might want to figure out before you get married? Maybe? Just possibly? Like I've said before, the fact that you don't know should be a huge red flag. In the name of all that is logical and reasonable, you should be asking her these questions. If she still has her divorce papers, and is still having to handle them in some way, do you really think that she went through her divorce more than a year ago? This would be something that you absolutely need to ask her, because it too is just far too fishy.

There is a minimum time period we must remain married, otherwise she gets sent back. ICE does follow-up interviews to ensure the marriage is legit.

There is nothing that ensures the marriage is legit in the first place and so you're going to find it extremely difficult to get her into the United States. You can't prove that the relationship was either extended or legitimate. Like I said, telling ICE that you met her on the internet and flew to China for one week before deciding to get married just won't get past them. They've seen way too many nasty experiences that shape up just like yours. It's going to be a lot more costly and time consuming to get her in than you think.

Do you think your warnings are anything new for me to hear? I am quite aware of the possibility of her leaving me when she secures her citizenship. I don't have much for assets for her to take and she knows this.

And you want to know why these warnings aren't new for you? Because they're probably right. Use your brain, and actually think about this for two seconds.

I know that you are jaded from one failed relationship after another in your home country, and I know that your BS detector has no doubt been worn down by fifteen years of being swamped with BS. But even you, in your vulnerable state, should be able to see what's happening here.

Why don't you read this:

I am married to a Chinese woman. I married in China. We have are troubles, culture, language etc. Immigration takes a long time. A friend of mine kind of told me this...

International Marriage Scam

There are several variations. Usually the target, male or female is contacted through mutual desire to meet. Internet!!! Date/Mate sites, magazines, etc.

The target (mark) is then groomed into the con. Takes about 4-9 months. Remember your desires are the catalyst...keep you happy, they ask for items in increments, small additional living cost, accommodations etc then get a commitment to marry. That is what their ad states (looking for marriage), because you think it is a different culture you say they are just very direct, why beat around the bush, its more convenient and "that's what I was on the site for too" The reputation of foreign wives is good. You may have just been hooked, do some further checking, make a weekend trip or visit if possible...feel the situation.

Soft and wonderful emails of new love, soft to the ear, promises of a full and healthy relationship. The mark will be brought into the financial aspect of the con when they take the hook and bait.

It is a long con, could last several years, usually a minimum of 1 to 3 years.

Goals of the con:

1. Financial- to obtain a financial target or goal, increased lifestyle, new homes, condos, autos, bilk the mark for anywhere from 10,000.00 to 100's of thousands of dollars. For use in the home country.

2. Obtain false premised entry into a foreign country through marriage.

3. Ultimately when the top goal is satisfied, to end the relationship, return to the home country, to the original "unmarried" "true" spouse, marry this person, hopefully having not been caught of the fraud, and live the goal lifestyle obtained.

(note) A green card in the U.S. requires at least 3 years of marriage. If you have a kid here together...they can come and go.

If the wedding is fast, hold your wallet and get ready to lose everything. If they determine you are not the wealth mine they were looking for, be ready for a rough ride, they will claim they are unhappy, do almost anything for a divorce early. This ensures there will probably be no property to split. You tried your best but have probably already done good amount of damage to your life savings and or general income.

If love = money...think!

They say if something smells funny, its probably rotten. The fraud is simple, difficult to detect. If you do become suspicious and you ARE married, hire a private detective in the country or city where your spouse is, if your bold go home on a unannounced trip with gifts. If their arms are open of surprise and happiness your probably o.k.

If not, you will know and it could get dangerous, do not stay, fight or argue, have the next flight same day already booked and move on. Recommendation: always use PD agency when possible minimum of 2-3 surveillances over 1-2 months. Get your information. If you are wealthy this could protect prior family, children of previous marriage, your wealth and your sanity. As well as your life!

If you can try to find a way to live there, if they don't want you living there, your probably putting a dent into someone else's...the "true" spouses love/sex life. It significantly raises the possibility of the two of them being caught. In most of these countries, jails and prisons are not good places to be so do not do anything if you catch them, leave. You'll know if something's up. Emotional body and spoken language says volumes, so does your intimacy, pay attention. If you do not feel anything wrong, your probably o.k. have a great marriage and a good life.

If you suspect a scam/fraud, do not contact their local authority, contact your home country immigration authority and State Department after you have left the country.

These persons have played on your heart, hard earned money so it is best to catch the fraud as quickly as possible into the relationship so you can move on...lesson learned.

If any men or women of this forum who have had a similar experience, or suspect you are the mark, take some action before you are left in tears, broken "divorced", "used" goods.

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/read.php?f=6&i=4951&t=4817&v=f

Doesn't it sound an awful lot like what you're going through?

You sound like my mom. "Just meeting them for a few days and they will obviously be on their best behavior. You don't know if they pick their nose."

She doesn't pick her nose, but she does burp.

You wanna know something? Your mom and I are right. She and I have so much in common. Anyways, this is one time you really should be listening to your mother.

You are the second idiot to make the mistake of thinking the translator with the boyfriend was the girl I was meeting.

Maybe, but at least I'm not the kind of idiot who marries a Chinese prostitute he met online.
Moderator Action: That comment is unacceptable.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

This quote from your profile seems more than appropriate: And at 26 I'm sure you are wise beyond your years. All marriage is a risk and the gold diggers are not just foreigners. Many American women are far more skilled at sucking you dry in a hurry and leaving you bewildered, than foreign ones.

Not really, that's a stereotype that you're making. If Bamspeedy lived in China, struck up a relationship with a Chinese girl, dated her, met the family, and all that relationship jazz that they do in China just like here, I wouldn't be telling him to back off because it's a scam. Because it wouldn't be, it would be a legitimate relationship.

What he's doing flies in the face of all reason, and I know you feel compelled to defend him because of some soft-hearted liberal touchy-feely tendency to have absolutely no judgements on personal behaviour, but stop for just one second. He's marrying a woman he just met, who is poor, doesn't speak English, wants to move to the United States ASAP, has gone through a divorce which he has no idea when it happened, et al.

He's doing something completely moronic, just like the thousands of men who marry Thai hookers every year. And just like those men, there's no convincing him of the stupidity of his actions. He'll only see the truth when it hits him smack in the face. So he'll ride off into the sunset screaming "SEE YOU LATER, SUCKERS!" with his new Chinese wife on horseback. But then, in four to six months, he'll come crawling back, crying about how his Chinese wife left him and he should have seen it coming all along.

Until the 19th Century marriage was mostly arranged and all about gaining powerful in-laws. Passionate love is a late comer to marriage and not even necessary for a successful marriage. Do you think that you are a good judge of this girl's motives because you have access to the internet and can find examples of bad experiences? People create good, long lasting marriages through hard work and commitment. The statisitics of failure are just a compliation of individual inability to put the needs of one's spouse before one's own. Did you/will you base your marriage on government statistics of success? I would hope not.

Nice, but mostly irrelevant. What marriage was like "until the 19th century" is kind of irrelevant, since we're not talking about the past, we're talking about modern day China, and in China, relationships have become very westernized over the years.

And I think I'm in a pretty good position to judge based on the information about this case that Bamspeedy has provided. I'll sum it up for you:

1) He met her through an online dating service.
2) He doesn't know when she was divorced.
3) He agreed to marry her just days after meeting her, possibly before even meeting her.
4) She is poor, and seems to possess less wealth and a lower standard of living than even most Chinese.
5) She can't speak English.
6) He's already trying to get her into the US.

There are a few other things that were notable, but I'll keep them quiet for now.

Each of these things, in and of themselves, may mean nothing, but when you add them all together, it's fairly obvious what's happening here.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I waivered about saying anything, since I sometimes feel like people without common sense deserve to be scammed, but since common sense isn't common without the effort of people to spread it, and since you put together a nice photo tour, I will say this:

Everything that I know about Chinese dating tells me that the idea of romance is a distant third behind wealth and status, which are the same thing and 5 times more important than love which _just_ edges out sexual satisfaction for last place on the list of traditional Chinese marriage priorities. I have no knowledge of your relative risk for being outright scammed, but I would wager a few hundred yuan that you will be unhappy in this type of marriage unless you are fully resigned to see it as a business arrangement between a provider and someone who does odd jobs and allows you to remove that relationship-handicapped deally from your rear view mirror. Don't worry, the Chinese emit scathing glares at the unmarried as well, so she has a strong motivation to marry for the sake of appearances and this will probably be the only thing you have in common. But at least it's something.

Good news: the child will likely have very good study habits. But because the mother moved around the world and married a stranger to better his opportunities, she will be forever more partial to him and your marriage will strain due to the distance. If she wins the inevitable disputes on how to raise the child, he may be quite filial and support you in old age. If you win the disputes you will alienate your wife and your son will reject you, which is bittersweet because you're then you will need to rely on social security and your own savings for retirement like most Americans.

But life is a game, and sometimes the RNG will give you a good outcome despite the odds. Good luck. No reloads.

（我是美国留学生差不多五个月我住北京）

 

[Bamspeedy]

Well thank you Birdjaguar and Merkinball, those were helpful posts which gave both ends of the spectrum.

Doesn't it sound an awful lot like what you're going through?

Not really. She has never asked for any money and I would be backing away if she ever did ask me to send her money. The site even warns about this kind of fraud.

In fact she paid for many of meals and taxi rides. She works all the time, working the day before meeting me in the afternoon and then going to work after going with me to the airport early in the morning and saves money by having the child with her brother during the week rather than having to pay for daycare.

Before meeting her, I talked to other women from that site. I talked to one for 6 months and then she seemed to kind of lose interest or change her mind about marrying and leaving her country. Why would she invest all that time and then back out when I was prepared to come meet her which would have moved the 'con game' along if there was one.

I've gotten hundreds of admiration letters and the majority of them are the seemingly generic letters of love poems and all that. This one was different and why she attracted me.

Her parents lived in another town which was another 45 minutes away from her brother's house and she said if I want, I can meet them when I make another visit. She has shown me a picture of her with her mother and is always worried what my parents think of her and if they approve of the relationship.

The vast majority of the scams are those where men find a woman 20 or 30 years younger than him. Yeah, in 99% of those cases it is a scam and the guy is an idiot.

1) He met her through an online dating service.

yeah, so what. Yes, there is scams on the internet, but there is also real relationships that have happened on it.

2) He doesn't know when she was divorced.

If I wanted to know the exact date I would have asked her and she would have told me.

3) He agreed to marry her just days after meeting her, possibly before even meeting her.

Maybe mentioned it before meeting her kind of jokingly or not-too-seriously as we both knew we would have to meet before thinking of actually deciding on taking that route as we may have found upon meeting each other that we were not compatible at all.

She was the one to tell me to think long and hard about it and promise that I wouldn't leave her because she doesn't want to get divorced again.

4) She is poor, and seems to possess less wealth and a lower standard of living than even most Chinese.

Because of the town where her brother is living? She grew up in a poor town that is for sure. But she's got a degree and is using it (though I understand that their degrees aren't of the same value as degrees here). She was wearing decent clothes, paid for many of the things because she wanted to save me money, has a mobile phone, a camera, and a handheld electronic translator among other things.

Like I said, I have hardly any assets at all and she knows this, so if she is 'in it for the money' she will be a real loser on this one. The green card motive is the only one that would apply in this case, and I acknowlege that this is a risk.

So poor people have a lower morality than richer people? Classic.

5) She can't speak English.

She's learning. She has taken a class, but learns most of it from a book and that is why she can write english just fine, but her pronunciations are off.

Maybe, but at least I'm not the kind of idiot who marries a Chinese prostitute he met online.

Ok, this conversion is over. You have no reason to call her that other than baseing it on a couple of stereotypes.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Not really. She has never asked for any money and I would be backing away if she ever did ask me to send her money. The site even warns about this kind of fraud.

In fact she paid for many of meals and taxi rides. She works all the time, working the day before meeting me in the afternoon and then going to work after going with me to the airport early in the morning and saves money by having the child with her brother during the week rather than having to pay for daycare.

Before meeting her, I talked to other women from that site. I talked to one for 6 months and then she seemed to kind of lose interest or change her mind about marrying and leaving her country. Why would she invest all that time and then back out when I was prepared to come meet her which would have moved the 'con game' along if there was one.

I've gotten hundreds of admiration letters and the majority of them are the seemingly generic letters of love poems and all that. This one was different and why she attracted me.

Her parents lived in another town which was another 45 minutes away from her brother's house and she said if I want, I can meet them when I make another visit. She has shown me a picture of her with her mother and is always worried what my parents think of her and if they approve of the relationship.

The vast majority of the scams are those where men find a woman 20 or 30 years younger than him. Yeah, in 99% of those cases it is a scam and the guy is an idiot.

Not quite, in fact there are other circumstances which fit in nicely. I suggest you take a real close examination at her work history. 28-30 is about the time that prostitutes in Asia have to settle down because they can no longer compete with the 18-19 year olds that are just entering the business, and so they have to find a husband who can take care of them. Because most locals won't touch them with a ten foot pole, a lot of them inevitably turn to foreigners.

Sure, your woman may not be a prostitute. As I mention later on, you should definitely ask her what she does for a living.

I have to ask you though: why the hell do you want to have a wife so badly? Why not strive to have a real relationship? If you can't find suitable women in your middle of nowhere hick town, why not try online dating but in Madison, or Green Bay? Even Minneapolis or Chicago would be better than China.

yeah, so what. Yes, there is scams on the internet, but there is also real relationships that have happened on it.

Yeah, but the real relationships that result from internet contact tend not to be instances like yours. A real relationship resulting from internet contact would be something like conventional dating: find someone in your local area, go out on dates, meet the family, start having sex, maybe move in with each other, and then after a few months or a few years THEN YOU GET MARRIED. You do not get married with someone you just met. If she did not want to get married so quickly, I'd be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But because she does, it looks like little more than a scam.

If I wanted to know the exact date I would have asked her and she would have told me.

So why don't you do it already? This is something that you should know before you marry someone.

Maybe mentioned it before meeting her kind of jokingly or not-too-seriously as we both knew we would have to meet before thinking of actually deciding on taking that route as we may have found upon meeting each other that we were not compatible at all.

She was the one to tell me to think long and hard about it and promise that I wouldn't leave her because she doesn't want to get divorced again.

Of course she did.

And how did you really discover that you were compatible with her over the course of a few days? She can't speak English, beyond a few basic words, by your own admission. No matter how madly in love you think you might be, you cannot truly get to know someone, fall in love, and decide that she's right to spend the rest of your life with in the span of just a few days. It just doesn't happen. That means that she is not in love with you and you are not in love with her. And that means you should not be agreeing to marry her, because her concern here is financial first, with romance being way, way down the list.

Obviously you're on cloud nine, because you've had so many failed relationships in the past and you're just happy that you finally have something that you think will work out. But you're fooling yourself if you think this woman is in it for anything other than the money.

Because of the town where her brother is living? She grew up in a poor town that is for sure. But she's got a degree and is using it (though I understand that their degrees aren't of the same value as degrees here). She was wearing decent clothes, paid for many of the things because she wanted to save me money, has a mobile phone, a camera, and a handheld electronic translator among other things.

What does she do for a living? Do you even know? Did she even tell you? If not, that's a really bad indicator...

Like I said, I have hardly any assets at all and she knows this, so if she is 'in it for the money' she will be a real loser on this one. The green card motive is the only one that would apply in this case, and I acknowlege that this is a risk.

So poor people have a lower morality than richer people? Classic.

Yes, that's absolutely what I said.

It really doesn't matter if you're not rich... even if you're poor by American standards, you're still in the upper middle class by Chinese standards. The fact that you were able to hop on a plane and fly halfway around the world for a date demonstrates to her that you have at least some money to throw around. Certainly way more than she could ever hope to.

And it's not just that there is a risk, it's that with the information you've provided so far, the risk is virtually 100%. If nothing else, people in China just do not get married that quickly. It just isn't done. Sure, you might think "oh well I guess it's just a different culture and besides I want a wife too!" No. It doesn't work that way. She's in this purely for the financial considerations, and if she stays with you for any length of time it will be purely to suck as much as she can and live off you for as long as she can. Once she sees that she has as much as she's going to get, then she will leave you.

Ok, this conversion is over. You have nothing to base that on other than a couple of stereotypes.

Well you didn't have to call me an idiot did you? There are a lot of circumstances that really do fit the bill of her being an aging prostitute trying to settle down. I'm not necessarily saying that is the case; just that it is a theory that happens to fit the facts.

 

[Bamspeedy]

So all 30 year old chinese women are prostitutes? What a rascist thing to say.

It says what her job is in her profile and of course I've talked to her about it.

 

[amadeus]

So all 30 year old chinese women are prostitutes? What a rascist thing to say.

You're grasping at these.

He never said anything about all Chinese women (or Asian women) being prostitutes.

 

[LesCanadiens]

So all 30 year old chinese women are prostitutes? What a rascist thing to say.

No, not at all. Just that from what information you've provided, that would certainly be something that explains it all.

It says what her job is in her profile and of course I've talked to her about it.

Okay, what is her job?

Also, you didn't address any of my post, so I'm going to repost it here.

Not really. She has never asked for any money and I would be backing away if she ever did ask me to send her money. The site even warns about this kind of fraud.

In fact she paid for many of meals and taxi rides. She works all the time, working the day before meeting me in the afternoon and then going to work after going with me to the airport early in the morning and saves money by having the child with her brother during the week rather than having to pay for daycare.

Before meeting her, I talked to other women from that site. I talked to one for 6 months and then she seemed to kind of lose interest or change her mind about marrying and leaving her country. Why would she invest all that time and then back out when I was prepared to come meet her which would have moved the 'con game' along if there was one.

I've gotten hundreds of admiration letters and the majority of them are the seemingly generic letters of love poems and all that. This one was different and why she attracted me.

Her parents lived in another town which was another 45 minutes away from her brother's house and she said if I want, I can meet them when I make another visit. She has shown me a picture of her with her mother and is always worried what my parents think of her and if they approve of the relationship.

The vast majority of the scams are those where men find a woman 20 or 30 years younger than him. Yeah, in 99% of those cases it is a scam and the guy is an idiot.

Not quite, in fact there are other circumstances which fit in nicely. I suggest you take a real close examination at her work history. 28-30 is about the time that prostitutes in Asia have to settle down because they can no longer compete with the 18-19 year olds that are just entering the business, and so they have to find a husband who can take care of them. Because most locals won't touch them with a ten foot pole, a lot of them inevitably turn to foreigners.

Sure, your woman may not be a prostitute. As I mention later on, you should definitely ask her what she does for a living.

I have to ask you though: why the hell do you want to have a wife so badly? Why not strive to have a real relationship? If you can't find suitable women in your middle of nowhere hick town, why not try online dating but in Madison, or Green Bay? Even Minneapolis or Chicago would be better than China.

yeah, so what. Yes, there is scams on the internet, but there is also real relationships that have happened on it.

Yeah, but the real relationships that result from internet contact tend not to be instances like yours. A real relationship resulting from internet contact would be something like conventional dating: find someone in your local area, go out on dates, meet the family, start having sex, maybe move in with each other, and then after a few months or a few years THEN YOU GET MARRIED. You do not get married with someone you just met. If she did not want to get married so quickly, I'd be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But because she does, it looks like little more than a scam.

If I wanted to know the exact date I would have asked her and she would have told me.

So why don't you do it already? This is something that you should know before you marry someone.

Maybe mentioned it before meeting her kind of jokingly or not-too-seriously as we both knew we would have to meet before thinking of actually deciding on taking that route as we may have found upon meeting each other that we were not compatible at all.

She was the one to tell me to think long and hard about it and promise that I wouldn't leave her because she doesn't want to get divorced again.

Of course she did.

And how did you really discover that you were compatible with her over the course of a few days? She can't speak English, beyond a few basic words, by your own admission. No matter how madly in love you think you might be, you cannot truly get to know someone, fall in love, and decide that she's right to spend the rest of your life with in the span of just a few days. It just doesn't happen. That means that she is not in love with you and you are not in love with her. And that means you should not be agreeing to marry her, because her concern here is financial first, with romance being way, way down the list.

Obviously you're on cloud nine, because you've had so many failed relationships in the past and you're just happy that you finally have something that you think will work out. But you're fooling yourself if you think this woman is in it for anything other than the money.

Because of the town where her brother is living? She grew up in a poor town that is for sure. But she's got a degree and is using it (though I understand that their degrees aren't of the same value as degrees here). She was wearing decent clothes, paid for many of the things because she wanted to save me money, has a mobile phone, a camera, and a handheld electronic translator among other things.

What does she do for a living? Do you even know? Did she even tell you? If not, that's a really bad indicator...

Like I said, I have hardly any assets at all and she knows this, so if she is 'in it for the money' she will be a real loser on this one. The green card motive is the only one that would apply in this case, and I acknowlege that this is a risk.

So poor people have a lower morality than richer people? Classic.

Yes, that's absolutely what I said.

It really doesn't matter if you're not rich... even if you're poor by American standards, you're still in the upper middle class by Chinese standards. The fact that you were able to hop on a plane and fly halfway around the world for a date demonstrates to her that you have at least some money to throw around. Certainly way more than she could ever hope to.

And it's not just that there is a risk, it's that with the information you've provided so far, the risk is virtually 100%. If nothing else, people in China just do not get married that quickly. It just isn't done. Sure, you might think "oh well I guess it's just a different culture and besides I want a wife too!" No. It doesn't work that way. She's in this purely for the financial considerations, and if she stays with you for any length of time it will be purely to suck as much as she can and live off you for as long as she can. Once she sees that she has as much as she's going to get, then she will leave you.

Ok, this conversion is over. You have nothing to base that on other than a couple of stereotypes.

Well you didn't have to call me an idiot did you? There are a lot of circumstances that really do fit the bill of her being an aging prostitute trying to settle down. I'm not necessarily saying that is the case; just that it is a theory that happens to fit the facts.

 

[Merkinball]

If nothing else, people in China just do not get married that quickly. It just isn't done.

That's all the needs to be said.

That's it.

Lock'er up.

Les wins.

 

[Bamspeedy]

You're grasping at these.

He never said anything about all Chinese women (or Asian women) being prostitutes.

His last paragraph was edited. Before then he just simply said "It's a fact".

 

[LesCanadiens]

His last paragraph was edited. Before then he just simply said "It's a fact".

No, I said that I do have fact to back up some of my hypotheses. I never said all Asian women are hookers or all Asian 30 year old women are hookers, and I certainly never said all Asian women with white men are hookers. I've had Asian girlfriends, living in such a multiethnic city in Canada as I do. As far as I know, none of them were ever hookers, though for one of them it wouldn't surprise me if she was.