Surtur
Warlord
The idea behind was to safe time for Rome. Instead of constructing buildings like barracks, aqueducts and courthouses they can produce military now.
The UHV should be changed anyway.
The UHV should be changed anyway.
My Unique Powers judgement
- Thread starter SkippyT
- Start date
SkippyT
Who?
Yes, surtur, it should be changed and I like your idea (even though it's overpowered) but I'd like to change it to..maybe 3-5 largest cities.
(btw, did you know surtur means ****** (extremly dirty word for African American) in Icelandic
?)
(btw, did you know surtur means ****** (extremly dirty word for African American) in Icelandic
?)
Blasphemous
Graulich
I agree that the free buildings UP smells cheaty. Maybe a less cheaty implementation of a similar concept would be the following:
*Add a new special specialist called Slave or Forced Worker, +4
for buildings and wonders, +2
, +1
*Whenever a Legionary conquers a city, half of the pop is removed, and for each pop one Roman city gets a Slave specialist. The cities are selected among cities with a Roman majority, from highest culture to lowest. If the script runs out of cities it will start again from the top (so if you only have three eligible cities and you just got 5 Slaves, the top two cities will get 2 Slaves). Each Slave only exists for five turns. (Alternatively, to require less checks, you can have one random Slave removed every three turns.)
*Whenever a city defender dies, all Slaves in that city die.
What you get is again a dynamic where your empire thrives as long as you keep conquering, making Rome have to keep conquering to maintain the large empire. In this respect it's realistic. It's not quite so realistic to represent the Empire's success as made possible by widespread slavery. A Power of Viae would be more realistic (and probably simpler.) But this idea is pretty damn cool.
*Add a new special specialist called Slave or Forced Worker, +4
for buildings and wonders, +2, +1*Whenever a Legionary conquers a city, half of the pop is removed, and for each pop one Roman city gets a Slave specialist. The cities are selected among cities with a Roman majority, from highest culture to lowest. If the script runs out of cities it will start again from the top (so if you only have three eligible cities and you just got 5 Slaves, the top two cities will get 2 Slaves). Each Slave only exists for five turns. (Alternatively, to require less checks, you can have one random Slave removed every three turns.)
*Whenever a city defender dies, all Slaves in that city die.
What you get is again a dynamic where your empire thrives as long as you keep conquering, making Rome have to keep conquering to maintain the large empire. In this respect it's realistic. It's not quite so realistic to represent the Empire's success as made possible by widespread slavery. A Power of Viae would be more realistic (and probably simpler.) But this idea is pretty damn cool.
SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
Nice idea blas, and realistic to. Romes economy was based on slavery and in the imperial age its legions were conquering new lands to find more slaves.
Surtur
Warlord
I agree that the free buildings UP smells cheaty. Maybe a less cheaty implementation of a similar concept would be the following:
*Add a new special specialist called Slave or Forced Worker, +4
*Whenever a Legionary conquers a city, half of the pop is removed, and for each pop one Roman city gets a Slave specialist. The cities are selected among cities with a Roman majority, from highest culture to lowest. If the script runs out of cities it will start again from the top (so if you only have three eligible cities and you just got 5 Slaves, the top two cities will get 2 Slaves). Each Slave only exists for five turns. (Alternatively, to require less checks, you can have one random Slave removed every three turns.)
*Whenever a city defender dies, all Slaves in that city die.
What you get is again a dynamic where your empire thrives as long as you keep conquering, making Rome have to keep conquering to maintain the large empire. In this respect it's realistic. It's not quite so realistic to represent the Empire's success as made possible by widespread slavery. A Power of Viae would be more realistic (and probably simpler.) But this idea is pretty damn cool.
There is still the problem that Rome AI doesn't train many legionaries (praetorians) and doesn't use them to conquer cities.
No, I didn't know that.
Lord Apolon
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2002
- Messages
- 131
Of the Roman ideas in the thread I think I like the one which provides short-term maintenance and xp bonuses after conquests the best, but it seems complicated and perhaps too beneficial.
Like many have said, Rome was by far the first city of the empire; in many ways, it was the empire. The fight for foreigners, even other Italians, to get citizenship was a long and hard one, and until the middle Empire (I believe) just about everyone important came from the city itself.
For that reason I suggest the following as all or part of the UP:
The Power of the City:
Rome has Bureaucracy enabled at start
It would give Rome an immediate advantage over its neighbors, and it would be able to spew out praetorians, settlers, workers.. anything. The extra commerce would help offset maintenance and unit costs while new cities were getting up and running. And, as the empire grew, the power would gradually become less significant.. just like in history.
As for Rome collapsing later, well, hopefully the Stability system Rhye and Blas are working on will take care of that.
That's my main idea. There's already a precedent with Egypt. Clearly the AI would know how to use it.
Maybe it would work better along with the current UP.. that would seem a healthy bonus, but not overpowered.
Thoughts?
Like many have said, Rome was by far the first city of the empire; in many ways, it was the empire. The fight for foreigners, even other Italians, to get citizenship was a long and hard one, and until the middle Empire (I believe) just about everyone important came from the city itself.
For that reason I suggest the following as all or part of the UP:
The Power of the City:
Rome has Bureaucracy enabled at start
It would give Rome an immediate advantage over its neighbors, and it would be able to spew out praetorians, settlers, workers.. anything. The extra commerce would help offset maintenance and unit costs while new cities were getting up and running. And, as the empire grew, the power would gradually become less significant.. just like in history.
As for Rome collapsing later, well, hopefully the Stability system Rhye and Blas are working on will take care of that.
That's my main idea. There's already a precedent with Egypt. Clearly the AI would know how to use it.
Maybe it would work better along with the current UP.. that would seem a healthy bonus, but not overpowered.
Thoughts?
Blasphemous
Graulich
Maybe Bureaucracy+Hereditary Rule... I think we've discussed the option before but it's simple and elegant enough that I wouldn't mind seeing it tried out in some near-future build.
Surtur
Warlord
It's very similar to Egypt UP and maybe not strong enough but I like it.
SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
Rome had 7 kings, later is was a republic, and finally it had a lot of emperors. So heretitary rule would be better.
Blasphemous
Graulich
Once Rome became an empire, I'm led to believe representation was rather fake and the Emperor was essentially the king.
Hitti-Litti
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,767
Though at later Roman ages there were sometimes 4 emperors, one in France, one in Rome, one in Constantinople and one in ?.
When Rome had kings, it was really weak city. Real beginning of Rome is when last king was banished (so at start they should have Representation). After that Rome became empire and changed civic to the Heretitary rule...
SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
When Rome had kings it was etruscian, when the last king Tarquinius Superbus was banished, you had 2 dictators whom balanced themself so there would be no absolute power that could abuse his power. The senate wasn't all that imporant. The true power lay with the 2 Consuls and the Tribunes.
SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
Democratic Republic of Congo
Deutsche Democratische Republiek
Peoples Republic of China
...
What's in a name?
Deutsche Democratische Republiek
Peoples Republic of China
...
What's in a name?
McA123
Prince
But the goal is to achieve the Roman Empire.
Blasphemous
Graulich
@LuKo: Nobody disagrees that Rome had a senate and that there was a time when that senate really mattered. All we're saying is that overall the era when they had emperors deciding things matters more to this mod.
SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
Rome was founded in 753 BC (legend) and Tarquinius was banished in 509. 7 kings had ruled Rome during that time, 4 are legends, 3 are real, the republic started about the time Caesar comes, then the Empire begins until 476 when Odoacar becomes king of Italia. So, Rome had been under Hereditary rule longer then under the senate, and the senate was not the true power during the republic, the 2 (elected) consuls were the true power.
